Why two women witnesses?

[chris4336]

Okay Muslim Sis, if you don't mind my asking is your physician a male or a female?

Would you ever consider going to a female physician?

Please keep in mind that the field of medicine requires a tremendous amount of memorization, in a lot of different areas, including mathematics and spatial relationships.

 

[Snowflake]

Okay Muslim Sis, if you don't mind my asking is your physician a male or a female?

Would you ever consider going to a female physician?

Please keep in mind that the field of medicine requires a tremendous amount of memorization, in a lot of different areas, including mathematics and spatial relationships.

Ha! My GP is female and she doesn't need a good memory. That's why we have medical records.

 

[chris4336]

Ha trust me there is no way she got through medical school without a good memory.

 

[Snowflake]

Ha trust me there is no way she got through medical school without a good memory.

lol islam doesn't say women don't have a memory at all. So of course she had a good memory and probably a good bit of revision too!

Women generally do have a bad memory though..that's why contraceptive pills are marked with days of the week. And it's not muslim companies who manufacture them. ;D

 

[soulsociety]

In case of Lian, woman's witness is equal to a man.

Has anyone considered that two women witnesses are so that men may believe them and not necesarily that there is something wrong with women?

Also has there been a study of female witnesses in western courts?

 

[chris4336]

I don't deny the research that shows men use different parts of their brain for different activities or that women experience premenstural syndrome and associated manifestations. But I think it is a pretty big leap to take that research and say "See look at this, its obvious that all women are incapable of remembering enough to serve as a witness" when clearly there are a ton of women who are very capable.

Maybe men remember financial details better, but that does not mean that women cannot remember them at all. And that does not mean all women. Do any of these studies show that women are so bad at remembering these that 2 of them seems necessary.

It seems strange that you guys trust Aisha with all those Hadiths but you do not think one women is sufficient to remember one financial transaction? You will go to female doctors expecting that she'll calculate the dosage of you medicine correctly, but if this same doctor were looking over a contract you would tell her "We need to have someone else to witness, because you are a woman, and women are not very good at remembering these things?"

I personally prefer the explanation that in an Islamic society men were generally involved more in financial transactions as the breadwinners, therefore they would be more familiar with the transactions. Sure your research states there are different areas that men and women excel in, but none of this research shows that one woman is incapable of serving as a witness without a reminder.

 

[chris4336]

Has anyone considered that two women witnesses are so that men may believe them and not necesarily that there is something wrong with women?

I find this reasoning much better than the assumption that women cannot remember financial transactions well enough to serve as a witness without a partner.

Also, I think the reason birth control pills are labeled with the day is because their dosage varies by the time of the month they are taken. So you cannot just throw them all in a little bottle and tell women to "Take one a day" becaues you will not be getting the correct dosage.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Would you recommend that women not go into medicine based on the idea that by nature women cannot remember certain things as well as men?

Actually, the opposite is the case. In Islamic law there is a collective obligation on women to enter the field of medicine to that females can be treated by female physicians.

Concerning memory, one of the most prolific narrators of hadith is A'ishah [may Allah be pleased with her], who narrated 2210 hadith - way more than the majority of the Prophet's male companions. Also, in hadith sciences, the testimony of a woman and a man is considered equal. So there is nothing wrong with women's memory, from the Islamic perspective.

 

[Snowflake]

Also, I think the reason birth control pills are labeled with the day is because their dosage varies by the time of the month they are taken. So you cannot just throw them all in a little bottle and tell women to "Take one a day" becaues you will not be getting the correct dosage.

You think wrong. The dosage doesn't vary. It's because a missed pill can result in pregnancy.

think we've gone off topic hmmm...

 

[T@z@belle]

Re: Two female winesses=1 man's testimony

According to Sharia -
Two female winesses=1 man's testimony
why?

cuz i womans testimony may be ove-emotional and not really factual....in other words a woman may natrually get carried away wif her emotions but that wont usually apply to a man.

 

[IceQueen~]

Masha Allah that was an interesting read...
nice view of the hadith about the rib because many ppl have interpreted that as women being inferior and less intelligent by nature...:rollseyes

 

[YusufNoor]

Assalamu 'alaykum,

A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem


I’m not sure adding anything here is wise. Instinct tells me to run and hide…mg:

I was listening to Mufti Ismail Menk’s Cape Tour 2005. The 1st cd is “Muslim Women…Are They Oppressed?” the Mawlanna studied in the Medina at the Faculty of Shariah and completed the Iftah course at Darul Uloom Kantana, India. He is the Imaam at the largest Musaajid in Harare, Zimbabwe.

While discussing the difference of women and men and particularly in relation to testifying in murder cases:

Hawa means, “created from something living”, Adam’s rib; as opposed to Adam, “created from something dead” earth, dust. Therefore, because she was created from something living woman has much more mercy than man. A mother has more mercy towards her children than the father, etc.

The woman will by nature, take into consideration the family, especially the mother, of the defendant. Her level of mercy, being so much greater than a man, will have an impact on her wanting to testify, especially if the defendant is the sole breadwinner for the family. In cases where the death penalty isn’t at stake, the woman will also consider the safety of her family when the defendant gets out of jail. These factors can lead to the woman not wanting to testify at all. She will at least think twice.

Thus, unlike with men, the woman will also be able to confer amongst themselves during testimony, whether it is for emotional support, or for fact relying. Men can’t do that. Form the Muftis’ point of view; the stature of women is raised in this matter.

of course, it all sounded so much better from the mouth of the Mufti...:-[




Yusuf

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ahh I didn't see this before. I'm glad it was on here. JazakAllah Khair for all the answers.

 

[*noor]

So what exactly does this following hadith mean? May someone please explain it? Thanks

(1) Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (Book #6, Hadith #301)

 

[*noor]

Bump :bump:

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Hey I wana know that too, InshaAllah.

 

[Keltoi]

Personally, and not as any kind of statement pro or con, I have met many more dramatic men than women. Most of the women I've known in my life were the most logical, least dramatic, and more straight forward than most of the men.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Has anyone considered that two women witnesses are so that men may believe them and not necesarily that there is something wrong with women?

If the Quran said women's testimony is equal to that of men, the latter would have to believe them, no matter what.

That's one the things I can't get to terms with in Islam. How the entire system is based on stereotypes about genders or other groups of people, when it should focus on the individual instead.

 

[aamirsaab]

If the Quran said women's testimony is equal to that of men, the latter would have to believe them, no matter what.

That's one the things I can't get to terms with in Islam. How the entire system is based on stereotypes about genders or other groups of people, when it should focus on the individual instead.

It's not stereotyping, rather it's encompassing the differences between both genders. Here's an example; biologically, the male human has a bigger physique than a female human of same age. Another example; female humans have menses, male humans do not. Are those stereotypes? No, just differences between man and female. And just as our biology is different so to is our psychology.

I don't know enough about that hadith that noor posted, so cannot make any comment. I do believe that part of it is based on context and so the hadith is targeted at a specific group of women as opposed to women in general but I cannot comment further than this.

Edit: A quick search on Google, found this link :http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/mistranslations_of_hadiths.htm

Now I don't know the validity of that site but the answer is of considerable length. Search on that page (using ctrl+F) for Answering false claim nr.7.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

It's not stereotyping, rather it's encompassing the differences between both genders. Here's an example; biologically, the male human has a bigger physique than a female human of same age. Another example; female humans have menses, male humans do not. Are those stereotypes? No, just differences between man and female. And just as our biology is different so to is our psychology.

It probably is to a certain extent, still not enought to discriminate women. Besides, you'll find the differences in psychology within one gender are also enormous, probabyl greater than the general dofferences between men and women.
The modern society is a proof enough women are no less capable than men in all walks of life (except perhaps for physical labour) and that they are equally reliable as wittnesses.
So, yes it is stereotyping and generalising.