you are saying that these, from Muslim:
are weak Hadeeth?
what is your proof of this?
:wa:
Why's it acceptable for a man to marry a younger women but not for a women.
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you are saying that these, from Muslim:
are weak Hadeeth?
what is your proof of this?
:wa:
Clover
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I don't know really. I would marry a woman if I loved her, but I'd really hope she isn't 10 years older, or younger. She'd have to be over 18, and I'd hope older, cause at 18, a girl usually has way too much on her mind and too much to do, for love.
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Because men are not mentally mature the same time as woman. Men's maturity somes about 3-4 years later, for it to be the same as the woman.
E.g. If the woman is 20 and the man is 24/25, he will have the maturity of a 20 year old.
Firstly, I am a Pakistani. Lived all my life(30years) in Pak-istan. I never herd or observed such phenomenon EXCLUSIVELY for women. At least not at a scale that u should generalize it as a part of "Pakistani Culture".
My cousin is married to a younger man. In my neighbour is a family where wife is 2years older than husband..... I never saw any "fuss". May be they showed such "fuss" on BBC or CNN or Fox news & u believed it.
Secondly, such a "fuss" has islamic justification behind. Prophet Muhammad(saw) recommended that one should marry a younger lady. So like a lover of prophet knocked all his teeth when he herd prophet lost a tooth in a battle......likewise ppl with pashion for prophet take his recommendations very seriously. So when they see marriage b/w older lady & younger man their inbuild database of prophet's recommendations kicks in & they object to such action.
You also don't seem to be adequately familier with Pak-istani culture to judge Pakistani culture, since you don't even know in Pakistani culture women rarely propose. Let alone proposing a younger man.....
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Allaah Knows
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instead of dissing culture help renew it.
You make it seem like I do nothing. Allaah :arabic2: Knows best.
Wrong sister. There are many aspects of the Pakistani culture that fit in beautifully with the teachings of Islaam. However, where they do not, we mustn't defend them nor put the veil over people's eyes.
wAllaahu 'alam.
One of my uncles is married to an older woman. There was no fuss. However, I believe that was one of the many exceptions where they decided they couldn't care less about what other traditional Pakistani folk thought.
I do still think such a phenomenon is very much part of the Pakistani culture.
To such an extent that they are willing to ruin two people's lives, even if it is their own children in question, and cause them to opt for haraam means, as happens so often. Are such objections justified?
Where is their inbuilt database of the recommendations of RasooluLlaah (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) when He (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) told His ummah to marry when a suitable spouse comes along, otherwise there will be corruption?
Did RasooluLlaah (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) condemn the act? Did He (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) attach shame to it? Why do we see this happening then?
Allaah :arabic2: Knows best. But I'd say women in general shy away from proposing, Pakistani or not.
Wassalaamu`alaykum
Waalikum Assalam.
I think its really useless.
Because Prophet(P.B.U.H) married Khadija(R.A) when he was 25 and when Khadija(R.A) was 40.YOu are absolutely right.In Pakistan, they think its a fuss to marry a woman older than the man.But I dont think it is right.
I think its really useless.
Because Prophet(P.B.U.H) married Khadija(R.A) when he was 25 and when Khadija(R.A) was 40.YOu are absolutely right.In Pakistan, they think its a fuss to marry a woman older than the man.But I dont think it is right.
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Another meany? Shall I take a hit on you too brother? Firstly it DOES happen and I myself AM WITNESS to THIS cause it has happened to ME. So before you go and blame the brother for not knowing Pakistani culture, maybe you aught to take two steps back, perhaps more in your case...and yes most Pakistanis do make a useless fuss over it and I've seen it! Yes some don't care but others do. So you cannot deny that it happens.
Secondly, the thread nor topic nor anything he said was pertaining to a woman proposing, so where did that come out of, your stomach? SubhanAllah.
Not really. Some families want a younger girl as their daughter. I always see this. Not because they are passionate about the Prophet(saw) recommendations but cause they are selfish too. Would you say the jahil ones love the Prophet(saw)? If they did, would they be jahil in the first place?
Why are you in the assumption he doesn't know that most women don't propose in our culture? And it's not just Pakistani culture, but everywhere. Even if the Prophet(saw) recommended it, did he say you couldn't? no. So where's the justification that one can't? Are they not disobeying rasoolAllah(saw) when they reject over age? If he was young and immature, not mentally ready or really childish, then I can understand. Some guys can actually be ready and marriages like these DO happen, where the guy is younger and girl is older.
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Did anyone notice this...
AbdullahSyed
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Nope!
ardianto
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You didn't explain, how many years younger ?.
I am not Pakistani. In my place if a 25 y/o woman shows interest in a 22 y/o man is normal. But if a 40 y/o rich widow, shows interest to 20 y/o good looking man, it's must be causing a gossip.
Salahudeen
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hmm if not's part of Pakistani culture just like the way they have a cast system, and look down upon marrying divorced women and insist a man who has never been married should only marry a women who has never been married,
then maybe you'd like to explain why my entire ghandaan, rishtadare and relatives and every 1 from my village and (Mirpur) holds these views??
and it's not just me who has noticed this, my friends in college who's elders are from Jalem and Rawalpindi also have these views. hmm and our elders were born and bread in Pakistan and lived the majority of their lives in Pakistan and insist this is part of their culture and encourage us to carry it on.
That you have to marry someone, same cast and she can't be divorced if your not divorced, and she can't be more than 3-4 years older. Wanna explain why they all have these views??
And you said I generalized what is your point?? what is wrong with generalizing when the generalization is correct??
is it not correct to say that the majority of people in the USA are white??
is it not correct to say that the majority of people in USA are non Muslims??
they are both generalizations however they are obviously correct. Would you say they are incorrect if a person said
"I'm from the USA and I've never seen a white person therefore the majority of people in USA aren't white and you can't generalize and say there are"
or
"I'm from USA and I've never heard of or seen non muslims therefore the majority of the population must be muslim therefore you can't generalize and say it's not"
See how stupid it sounds just because you haven't heard something or refuse to believe it, don't mean it ain't true.
I made the generalization that pakistani culture has the things mentioned above in it, that doesn't mean that every single pakistani believes in that culture and follows it, no some reject it like me and your next door neighbours and cousin, however does that mean it doesn't exist within pakistani culture because we as individuals choose to reject it or ignore it?
And just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, since when did you become all knowledgable and knowing???? :hmm:
it's not really something that people talk about in everyday life they just prevent it from happening. They only start gossiping when a women shows interest in a man who's 5-10 years younger than her.
And no they never showed a fuss on CBN I witnessed it first hand, one of my female relatives showed an interest in a man who was 7 years younger and beause of that her entire reputation got ruined apparently.
Where ever she went people started asking her how come she went down to the family's house, eventually they started spreading evil rumors such as
"she was only interested because of his money, as his family is wealthy and stuff like "She's a gold digger beware"
Literally this is no joke, every relative of hers that she came across asked her
"How come you went down to so and so's house"
because they all could not believe the fact that she could have done something as "shameful" as to show interest in a man who is younger than her.
And all the people involved were pakistani's from Mirpur/dadyaal so again didn't watch it on CNN m8 happened infront of my eyes :hmm:
And you said such a fuss has islamic justification behind it, you said the prophet advised men to marry young women however does that mean it's an absolute necessity that a man marry's a younger women???
does that mean it's haraam to marry an older women?? obviously not, yet certain pakistani's make it an absolute "no" "no" and "object".
like you said they "OBJECT" to such an extent, that one would get the impression it's haraam and inpermissable.
Also since we're talking about religious justification here, you said
"So like a lover of prophet knocked all his teeth when he herd prophet lost a tooth in a battle......likewise ppl with pashion for prophet take his recommendations very seriously. So when they see marriage b/w older lady & younger man their inbuild database of prophet's recommendations kicks in & they object to such action".
Why should such people object to me doing something that Allah azuljul has made halal for me??
Why is it any of their business who I marry and who gives them the right to object???
it's my right to marry whoever I wanna, why would they object when there is nothing haraam in it???
you want Islamic justification, you talk about love and passion for the prophet pbuh,
what if a man has so much love for the prophet's sunnah and wants to follow exactly in his footsteps and marry an older women or many older women just like the prophet pbuh did are you going to object???
Even though it's not haraam and your own prophet pbuh did it, they still object???
Infact you quoted an hadith for your religious justification, I shall use the same hadith for my justification, you said
"a lover of the prophet pbuh knocked all his teeth out when he heard the prophet pbuh lost his teeth in battle"
Well just like this man knocked out all his teeth out of love for the prophet pbuh and to be like him,
MANY people just like this man who knocked his teeth out, also want to be like the prophet pbuh by marrying an older women just like the prophet pbuh did.
They want to do it out of love for him, because they want to be like him and follow his foot steps. Are you going to object to a man marrying a women, because he wants to follow a messenger of god's footsteps???
When prophet pbuh advises something it doesn't mean it's obligatory, just like the prophet pbuh advised using miswaak, if these people had such a pashion for the prophet pbuh wouldn't they object to people using toothbrushes instead of miswaaks???
INFACT IF THESE PEOPLE ARE SO SERIOUS WITH PASSION ABOUT'S THE PROPHETS RECCOMMENDATION WHY DON'T THEY ALL USE MISWAAK??? LOL THE PROPHET PBUH RECOMMENDED USING MISWAAK MORE, HE SAID "IF I WERE NOT WORRIED THAT IT WOULD BECOME A BURDEN FOR MY UMMAH I WOULD MAKE IT OBLIGATORY FOR THEM TO USE MISWAAK before every prayer"
TELL ME did the prophet peace be upon him say this when he was recommending marriage to younger women???? so if these people have such strong passion why don't they all start using miswaaks and stop using toothbrushes lol if their passion is as strong as you say. after all the miswaak was recommended more nearly made obligatory.
prophet advised using miswaaks regularly and these people are using toothbrushes where's their pashion gone now brother????
Or do they only choose to follow that which agrees with their own desires and lusts and leave the bits they don't like???
Another example Prophet pbuh advised infact made it fard to grow beard if these people had such a love and passion for him as you say why don't they grow their beards?? Prophet peace be upon him advised it and commanded it.
Yet they seem to ignore this, where's the passion gone now brother?.
Point here is brother, the prophet peace be upon him advised us to do many things, such as miswaak and beard however you don't see them objecting to their children shaving their beards, you don't see them objecting to their children using toothbrush instead of miswaak even though prophet advised to use miswaak.
You don't see them object to their children not wearing hijaab, yet you see them object when their child tells them
"dad , mum I wanna marry a praticing women who's 6-7 years older than me"
You call this love and passion for the prophet peace be upon him???? rather these are people who follow what agree's with their desires and forget the rest.
If they really want to show their passion and love for the prophet pbuh then let them follow his sunnah and not prevent something he made halal???
did not the prophet pbuh say
"if you want Allah to love you then follow my sunnah and allah will love you"
tell me brother was it the prophet's sunnah to object to a person marrying an older women???
so then why do they object, are they more knowlegeable than the messenger pbuh????
Subhanallah in somes cases they do more than object, they ruin the women's reputation and embarress her.
And brother I feel offended that you accuse me of not being familiar with pakistani culture when my parents, my grandparents, my entire ancestors are pakistani and have very much tried to teach me their jahil culture.
I also want an apology, you accussed me of saying something I never said,
do you say I said something when I never?????
do you lie about what I had spoken/typed???
evidently you do
brother you said
"since you don't even know in Pakistani culture women rarely propose. Let alone proposing a younger man..."
tell me NOW where I said women propose???? what a lie, the closet thing I said to this was "show an interest", there is a big difference between showing an interest and proposing brother.
Also you've just exposed another thing of pakistani culture that is against the sunnah,
in certain pakistani cultures it is, seen as something shameful if a women proposes to a man through her wali. This is another thing that is against the sunnah, where's the passion and love for the prophet pbuh gone brother???
Muslim women are entitled to propose to a man for marriage like Khadija did, this goes against pakistani culture it's something shameful if the women proposes even though their own mother khadija proposed.
And brother thinking about it you said the following
"Pakistani culture women rarely propose. Let alone proposing a younger man..."
Answer me this, if it's not looked down upon as you claim then how come according to you, your words not mine,
according to you in pakistani culture a women rarely proposes to a younger man can you tell me why this is?? if it's something that isn't against their culture why do they rarely propose as you said???
I hope you apologise for lying about me saying something I never, and I hope you apologise for accusing me of not being familiar with pakistani culture when I am a pakistani and my entire family is.
And brother just in case you missed this I'd like you to answer the following also from another sister and please answer ALL the issues raised in my post.
Where is their inbuilt database of the recommendations of RasooluLlaah (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) when He (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) told His ummah to marry when a suitable spouse comes along, otherwise there will be corruption?
Did RasooluLlaah (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) condemn the act? Did He (salAllaahu`alayhi wasallam) attach shame to it? Why do we see this happening then?
yes tell us why do we see a sister who proposes to a man through her wali shamed by the people??
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Reading all this well wow, I can't make sense of it, brother are you saying that you believe in these things, is this what Pakistani culture says, forgive me but Its a little too much to take in.
Salahudeen
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what is haraam about this?? wasn't khadija 1 of the richest business women of makkah when she proposed to the prophet peace be upon him and wasn't she much older than him???
I may be wrong here but I think she was 15 years older can't remember the exact number. but either way why do the people gossip about something that their own prohet pbuh did????
do they not make the Qur'an and sunnah a judge in all their affairs???
"By your lord they can have no faith untill they make you a judge in all their affairs, and find in themselves no resistance to your decisions, and accept them with full submission" 4:65
so if Allah and his messenger say there is no haraam in it, then who are we to gossip about it, look down upon it, object and talk badly about something that Allah and his messenger have made halal.
do we follow part of the book and reject the bits that we don't agree with?
Whenever you have a dispute you should take it back to the Qur'an and sunnah, the Qur'an and sunnah say there is nothing haraam in this 40 year old women marrying a 25 year old man so who are we to say there is, when Allah and his messenger say there isn;t???
am confused, Allah and the messenger says nothing haraam yet people follow their own opnion and look down upon it, if this lady was meant to be looked down upon he would've told us to look down upon her.
Just like he said ""There will be in the last of my ‘Ummah’ (Muslim Nation), scantily dressed women, the hair on the top of their heads like a camel’s hump. Curse them, for verily they are cursed.”
yet no 1 chooses to gossip about her and talk about her in a bad away and she's doing something haraam where as the women who marries a younger man has done nothing haraam yet you find everyone gossiping. Subhanallah they gossip about something halal and permissable.
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nothing is haraam about this...
Salahudeen
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then why do people object, prevent it, look down upon it, gossip about it, like it's something shameful. Only things I see as shamefull are the haraam things.
I find it shamefull to disobey Allah that's the only thing I find shamefull, why should you find something shamefull when it's not disobediance to Allah rather obediance.
To be honest all I care about is if she's praticing, my grandad said she has to be same cast, she can't be divorced and should be younger than me.
But the prophet pbuh doesn't say this, so I ignore him and follow the advice of my prophet pbuh
to me if she has good character, deen, and I am attracted then I would marry her regardless of her age, colour, race, ethnicity.
even if she was divorced with children I wouldn't mind, infact I would want to marry her more and look after her children. As my parents are divorced and I know the hardships of growing up in a broken family.
If I married a women from a different cast my grandad probably wouldn't talk to me
and also if a married a white revert the whole family would probably turn their backs on me.
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I think that people need to understand one very important thing here:
This phenomenon does not occur only in Pakistani culture. I think it is unfair to say that Pakistanis are the worst at it, or that it is a "Pakistani thing." Yes, this horrible bias does show up in Pakistani culture, and it does tend to be quite strong, but it is not ONLY in Pakistani culture.
As I have stated, it also exists in American culture. People will always be quick to point out that a woman is older than a man. No matter how "forward thinking" Americans like to think they are, a great many still hold to the old traditions that a man should be older than a woman. It is still more acceptable for a woman to be younger than a man, than the other way around.
Oh, and there can also be a stigma associated with divorcees in America, as well. Again, it may not be as "noticeable" as it is in South Asian culture (which, by the way, is not exclusive to only Pakistan, but also the other South Asian countries of India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka), but it still exists. It's also quite difficult for a woman to get married if she has kids from a previous marriage. It is a challenge to find a man who will accept the kids, and also be kind to them.
South Asian culture is not unique in the gender bias. It just gets more attention than other cultures because people are still very open about their views. Other cultures have just taken to keeping it more "private," but trust me, it is still there.
Do not be unfair, and say that it is only one culture that does this. It certainly is not, and it is actually one of those nasty little things known as "human nature."
Please, can we stop the bashing exclusively of Pakistanis???
This phenomenon does not occur only in Pakistani culture. I think it is unfair to say that Pakistanis are the worst at it, or that it is a "Pakistani thing." Yes, this horrible bias does show up in Pakistani culture, and it does tend to be quite strong, but it is not ONLY in Pakistani culture.
As I have stated, it also exists in American culture. People will always be quick to point out that a woman is older than a man. No matter how "forward thinking" Americans like to think they are, a great many still hold to the old traditions that a man should be older than a woman. It is still more acceptable for a woman to be younger than a man, than the other way around.
Oh, and there can also be a stigma associated with divorcees in America, as well. Again, it may not be as "noticeable" as it is in South Asian culture (which, by the way, is not exclusive to only Pakistan, but also the other South Asian countries of India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka), but it still exists. It's also quite difficult for a woman to get married if she has kids from a previous marriage. It is a challenge to find a man who will accept the kids, and also be kind to them.
South Asian culture is not unique in the gender bias. It just gets more attention than other cultures because people are still very open about their views. Other cultures have just taken to keeping it more "private," but trust me, it is still there.
Do not be unfair, and say that it is only one culture that does this. It certainly is not, and it is actually one of those nasty little things known as "human nature."
Please, can we stop the bashing exclusively of Pakistanis???
Salahudeen
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Please don't take offence due to the fact that I wrote pakistani, it's only I am pakistani and it's the only culture I am familiar with so I am not in a position to comment on other cultures due to the fact I have no knowledge regarding them. I'm not really bashing pakistani culture just talking about the issues it has.
And have since starting this thread realized that it's not only pakistani culture that has these issues.
you said the other cultures have taken to keeping it more private, if only they did the same in our culture instead of the whole village gossiping about the shamefulness of it and phoning all their relatives in the UK to tell them and vice versa.
I don't know what human nature is :S honestly lol I only understand
haraam = something bad
halal = something not bad and allowed
these are my grounds when I look at something not my desire or human nature. How can I comment when Allah and his messenger have gave the verdict of not haraam. As I have said before, is not the Muslim by definition one who submits to the will of Allah.
is it the will of Allah that people should look down upon a divorved women? or a women who proposes to a man? or a women from a different cast or tribe??
no it is not the will of Allah so these people are not submitting their wills to Allah with regards to this matter. Rather they submit to their desires or human nature as you call it. and immitate the jahil people, and in some cases the mushrikeen of makkah in the times of the prophet pbuh. It anoys me cos they wear the tag of Muslim yet their views are not that of a Muslim.
And that isn't exclusive to pakistani culture, whoever holds the view that something halal should not be done because
"in our own opinion we deem it to be bad, and something that shouldn't be done"
thus making something halal into haraam because it doesn't agree with their opinion. Then he is putting his opinion before Allah and the messenger and you know what Allah says in the Qur'an
"If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that of the believers, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell,-what an evil refuge!" 4:115
The question here is, are these people contending with the messenger pbuh when they hold the following views
" A man who is not divorced should only marry a women who is not divorced" Prophet pbuh didn't hold this view
" A man should only marry a women from the same tribe/cast" Prophet pbuh didn't hold this view
"A man is only allowed to marry a women within a certain age range" Prophet pbuh didn't hold this view,
"A divorced women can only marry a divorced man" Prophet pbuh didn't hold this view
"it's shameful for a women to propose to a man through her wali and make the first move" Prophet pbuh didn't hold this view
Are they contending with the messenger?? the messenger said there's nothing wrong with any of the above and these people say there is,
so does that mean they are contending with him???
What are your views I'm unsure.
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Sister there is no need to go to that extreme level. I am pakistani and come from the same place as brother squiggles comes from and I know a lot about all this culture stuff. I love quite a few things about my culture and I would be proud to name them, however there are problems in every culture but are adressed in different ways, every culture labells. I am a divorcee and I am labelled by people, I have had people say to me 'who will marry you now that you are divorced, used goods and people of my own culture are saying this to me so to me my culture looks the worst to me, thats how I feel.