Wife going to put christmas tree

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Gossamer skye said:
It is a matter of what one can tolerate!.. I wouldn't want someone putting a tree in my house to represent the birth of his/her southwest Asian god anymore than a christian would put up a wicker man to celebrate the pagan god of the sun

all the best
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In that case, the best thing to do would be to divorce. Personally, I would not even contemplate marrying a Christian, but the original poster is a revert so it's a difficult situation. Frankly, I think I would divorce; I can't be bothered explaining the reason behind every action I take to a non-Muslim. I'm a lazy person.....

:wa:
 
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Gossamer skye said:
That highly depends on who is supporting the family and is the head of it..
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Actually, I suspect it is rather more dependent on whose names are on the deeds and who gets the best divorce lawyer.... And of course, for all we know, she earns more than he does.

You mistake this holiday for one having religious significance which it doesn't!
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It doesn't matter a d**n whether I think it has religious significance, whether you do or even whether markislam does. What matters is whether she does! If she is a Christian, that's rather odds-on, I would have thought. It's certainly true of most Christians in my experience!
 
Trumble said:
Actually, I suspect it is rather more dependent on whose names are on the deeds and who gets the best divorce lawyer.... And of course, for all we know, she earns more than he does.
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I haven't followed all of Mark's posts to know who earns more, but that would certainly explain why you think she is too good for him, since goodness seems directly related to salary!


It doesn't matter a d**n whether I think it has religious significance, whether you do or even whether markislam does. What matters is whether she does! If she is a Christian, that's rather odds-on, I would have thought. It's certainly true of most Christians in my experience!
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My experiences with Christians of whom one is a best friend, that thanksgiving (another non-religious holiday) is even of grander importance to re:quote ''no expectations and genuine gratitude''
It does matter what this holiday signifies, and it does matter that in its entirety based on lies that I have to explain to my four year old niece why santa clause doesn't exist, even though she insists that it does because grownups in her school say so.
I don't find it OK to lie to children, and I don't find it OK to celebrate pagan holidays.. it is certainly my opinion which I am entitled to as anyone on this forum is entitled.. Mark, can take it all in and decide what is best for him with what is presented him here.. regardless of how much his wife makes or the importance of this holiday to her!

all the best
 
Argamemnon said:
In that case, the best thing to do would be to divorce. Personally, I would not even contemplate marrying a Christian, but the original poster is a revert so it's a difficult situation. Frankly, I think I would divorce; I can't be bothered explaining the reason behind every action I take to a non-Muslim. I'm a lazy person.....

:wa:
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I agree with that.. it isn't laziness, it is that houda is from Allah swt.. certainly we have seen many successful cases of reversion. My sister in law was a Lutheran before she married my brother and remained christian two yrs into their marriage.. you can always tell if there is a response form the other person, but if every time you are hitting a brick wall.. then you are right best go on separate ways -- people can and do grow apart.. life is a journey of many years, it is good to spend it with someone who wishes to accompany you hand in hand!

and Allah swt knows best

:wa:
 
Gossamer skye said:
I haven't followed all of Mark's posts to know who earns more, but that would certainly explain why you think she is too good for him, since goodness seems directly related to salary!
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Actually, it's related to who actually seems to be exhibiting all the tolerance, here.

.. it is certainly my opinion which I am entitled to as anyone on this forum is entitled.. Mark, can take it all in and decide what is best for him with what is presented him here.. regardless of how much his wife makes or the importance of this holiday to her!
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Of course, as I am to mine. Nonetheless, within marriage we don't always get to choose 'what is best for me' in isolation from "what is best for us" and "what is best for him/her" when, as I'm sure you will agree, equal weight should be given to differing opinions as to what is 'best'. Or if we do so choose, we must accept the consequences. Which, in this case, seem potentially rather more severe than could possibly be justified by a conifer tree and a few fairy lights!
 
May Allah make things easy for you brother.

markislam said:
i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife :phew
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Since you asked "many" scholars and Imams about that, then I think you dont need any more advices from us here, so have some patience with your wife and try to explain everything to her in calm. Since you are a revert, focus more in increasing your knowledge about Islam and leave the "tree" issue now.
 
Trumble i think you assume a lot of things

my wife does not work by the way. she is still in school

Right now iam hitting a brick wall, she does not listen to what i have to say.
 
Right now iam hitting a brick wall, she does not listen to what i have to say.
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She's a Christian afterall and therefore has no need to listen and abide by the Islamic ruling.

Bro, it's not that big of an issue if you really think about it. I don't reckon you should be all that upset by it. By demanding such things, you're only driving her into defensive mode where she will end up having more of an anti-Islamic stance.

Tolerate the tree for now (you have no other choice) and gradually introduce her to Islam bit by bit and with wisdom and InshaAllah one day she will become a muslim herself.
 
^^ second that

bro Mark, things won't be solved in that way....give it some time
 
markislam; [QUOTE said:
she does not listen to what i have to say.
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It seems that you might not be listening to the many scholars and imams, who are also telling you things you do not want to hear. I am sure the prophet pbuh, had a few things to say about patience

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife
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In the spirit of praying for peace and understanding

Eric
 
markislam said:
Trumble i think you assume a lot of things

my wife does not work by the way. she is still in school

Right now iam hitting a brick wall, she does not listen to what i have to say.
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Your wife is Christian. The Christmas decorations will be taken down in a month or so. The scholars and imams you've asked have said to have patience.

So have patience. :)
 
Trumble said:
Actually, it's related to who actually seems to be exhibiting all the tolerance, here.
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That is true.. I don't know whether his wife is exhibiting any tolerance or not, if this celebration in and of itself is a to spite him?-- we are getting one end of the story and speculating.. if she is living on his income and spends it in a way that he dislikes then that is not to be tolerated.. we are not talking extravagant jimmy choo shoes rather a principal that is at odds with his..

I invited a few of my friends out during my last rotation, and one of them ordered some sort of pasta with some pancetta and I asked her kindly to order something else.. well I knew she was upset (it didn't matter to me the price and I made it clear) but the least a person could do is grant courtesy to another party especially if their beliefs are made manifest. Now, I couldn't care less if she downed a pig for breakfast lunch and dinner on regular basis, what mattered to me is that I was not going to spend my money on something I know to be seriously at odds with my religion. I think I might even be accountable if I let it slide by virtue that I wasn't the one shoving it down my throat!


Of course, as I am to mine. Nonetheless, within marriage we don't always get to choose 'what is best for me' in isolation from "what is best for us" and "what is best for him/her" when, as I'm sure you will agree, equal weight should be given to differing opinions as to what is 'best'. Or if we do so choose, we must accept the consequences. Which, in this case, seem potentially rather more severe than could possibly be justified by a conifer tree and a few fairy lights!
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I agree with that.. In my mind the passive approach to a relationship will get one nowhere. I love a peaceful existence as much as the next guy but this one has potential to a horrible fester if let slide.. One should choose their battles, I wholeheartedly agree.. but this one really is a biggie (IMHO) and not because of tree or light, but because of what it represents..

Other Muslims here have exhibited an opinion similar to yours.. and perhaps gentility is the best approach.. I am not sure that gentility will segue smoothly into the next best thing.. I predict the opposite in fact!


peace
 
A Christmas tree is a mere symbol, and symbols mean nothing except whatever meaning a person chooses to attach to them. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with celebrating Christmas so long as it's celebrated as a secular holiday--as I still freely do with my family, most of whom are Christians and one of whom is strongly anti-religious and has as little problem with secular Christmas celebration as I do. What's the problem? The main point of the holiday, at least in practice, is good will, togetherness, and generosity. Are these suddenly bad things just by virtue of association with something else??
 
I just wanted to add something.

I really think you need to have a good talk with your wife. This time it may be about the Christmas tree... and I do agree you should have patience with her as you are still a new Muslim yourself but... it is entirely possible that your wife may remain a Christian and not choose to revert.. (Adhubillah - May Allah forbid). Masha'Allah this is a very difficult situation.. (not just the tree) but the fact that ya'll are on two completely different levels now..
I sincerely hope Allah will guide her and you and make it easy on ya'll.. Ameen.

To take your mind off it, perhaps you could use this time to broaden your knowledge on why we don't celebrate Christmas and such.. and if you do know already then alhumdulillah and accept my apology for suggesting it.
I just think sometimes we know we're not supposed to do things but we don't take the time to find out why... and then when people ask us (like possibly your wife) we don't really know.
There are some things that it the answer is simply because Allah commanded us to or not to..
But there are proofs and solid reasons for others...
I'm rambling now. Excuse me. :embarrass

Encourage your wife.. Patience, patience, patience.. insha'Allah.
 
you can do the boring ''lets sit down together and talk it out'' :

just tell her trees belong outside and its a bit stupid to put it in the sitting room without benefiting from all those nutrients by eating the leaves like reindeers

or the exciting stealth mission :

wake up at night whilst she's a sleep and slam dunk the tree into the skip outside

job done!
 
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Abdullahii said:
wake up at night whilst she's a sleep and slam dunk the tree into the skip outside

job done!
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Oh yes job done!! Are you even thinking before you give advice? This brother is asking for advice not asking how to cause arguments between his wife!!! if he goes and throws the tree outside - dont you think that will actually cause conflict between the two? she will be very unhappy and what can that lead to?

i suggest you take advice from the imaans - they are knowledged people and if they say be patient then try to be patient... and Inshallah Allah shows her the right path.
 
^ I think he's just trying to lighten it up...:hiding:
On the other hand, I'm very glad your post wasn't directed at me :X
 
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