Women in Islam Question

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Greetings,

[QUOTE='Abd-al Latif]Islam is just and it gives each gender roles which best suits their abilities without favouring one over the other.[/QUOTE]

Here's a quote from Shaykh Abdul-Azeez ibn Baaz, whose article you posted earlier:

Yes, generally the male gender is better than the gender of the females generally for many reasons.

It looks to me like there's a contradiction here, but I'm sure there's a way to rationalise it if you're a believer.

Peace
 
The inference of the sheikh for something he couldn't adequately parley to his readers doesn't denote a consensus amongst scholars or acceptance at face value or prevalence otherwise amidst the 'believers'..

It is mere error in communication on his part which you chose to put in the foregrounds of your comments!

shyookhs aren't Gods--minigods prophets or even saints-- they can do their best in accordance to their understanding...

all the best
 
Greetings,

Here's a quote from Shaykh Abdul-Azeez ibn Baaz, whose article you posted earlier:

It looks to me like there's a contradiction here, but I'm sure there's a way to rationalise it if you're a believer.

Peace

That's his view and he may have his reasons for that but it is not out of boast or to belittle women.
 
:sl:

I think all the user-pages were lost when the forum got updated, including loss of some old very valuable threads in my humble opinion...

:w:
 
:sl:
Assalam Alaikum.

Recently at college an atheist girl who is friend, believes Islam oppresses women.

I managed to answer the majority of the questions imposed by her about, the veil, witnesses, marriage and employment. I managed to clear some misconceptions that she held about Islam but there were two particular verses, which I don't know much about. :/

She believes that these verses portray women in a negative light and are not considered equal to men. Can anyone please provide explanation for these verses? If so, I would be grateful.

Here are the two verses:



She thinks Islam is promoting women have less mental capabilities than men do.
ways to look at it: if Islam truly oppression women, why is paradise on offer for her? i find it amazing how when people come to question Islam, they just focus on the "obedience to husband/wearing hijab's issues," etc whilst they have completely failed to "weigh up" such issues with the rest of islam---> these things are minor and people don't really take into mind that her prayer is the same as his, as is her fast, her giving in charity, her purification, her dhikr, the laws of punishment are the same for both genders, etc etc etc...

another way to look at it is that it makes no sense that Islam oppresses women, because Allah is the legislator of the Islamic law. now, if you oppress someone, same as if you would rob someones house, murder some one, etc you need to have a motive behind it. but what motive would allah have to oppress women? he is not in need His servants be it male or female, he is the one who owns everything and gives everything. everything is from him and goes back to him so what would his reason be for oppressing us? it simply makes no sense...

and if he wanted to oppress us, why didn't he just destroy us?

and about the hijab issue (i know you mentioned that you already covered it) but it's to protect her from the gaze of men. we can say yes, it has nothing to do with him what he looks like and that he should lower his gaze, but at the end of the day if i dont want people breaking into my house, im going to take the proper precautions and lock the doors at night, same if i didn't want people to look into my house, i dress the windows up with blinds/curtains...its got nothing to do with anybody what in my house, but if i dont take the precautions of protecting it, than chances are highter of it getting broken into, no?


and btw, i advice you not to mix with this girl. if you want her to seek knowledge about Islam, direct her to the masjid or something.
 
Muslims wonder why the West misunderstands Islam.

Here is a post from the World Affairs forum.


http://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ani-villagers-attack-taliban.html#post1163717


HopeFul said:
I'm a pukhtun, like the Taliban, the "real" Taliban were.

Pukhtuns are generally very religious as their whole society is based on Islam, the men outside, the women inside in the homes


Muslims living in the Middle East tend to say: “the men outside, the women inside in the homes” Muslims living in the West tend to say: "Muslim women have more rights than Western women.”


So you can understand the problem.

-
 
Muslims wonder why the West misunderstands Islam.

Here is a post from the World Affairs forum.


http://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ani-villagers-attack-taliban.html#post1163717





Muslims living in the Middle East tend to say: “the men outside, the women inside in the homes” Muslims living in the West tend to say: "Muslim women have more rights than Western women.”


So you can understand the problem.

-

I've heard that before, I forgot where which is not good, cause it's bad to say you seen something then not have a direct source, but I guess I can go on my honor. I think it's rather weird, cause people in America have the same rights, but some people have their rights taken away wrongfully and a lot of times illegally.
 
Muslims wonder why the West misunderstands Islam.

Here is a post from the World Affairs forum.


http://www.islamicboard.com/world-a...ani-villagers-attack-taliban.html#post1163717





Muslims living in the Middle East tend to say: “the men outside, the women inside in the homes” Muslims living in the West tend to say: "Muslim women have more rights than Western women.”


So you can understand the problem.

-

I believe that is more cultural issue. I do not know much about the Taliban but I believe some of their laws are based on their cultural values.

Therefore, I think people need to make a distinction between Islam and Islamic groups/countries. Islam is a religion and Islamic groups/countries are people who apply Shariah law into practice. Some Islamic countries/groups do not correctly apply the Shariah law while they are some who do apply it correctly.

I think people should judge the followers of Islam and how well they put Islamic laws into practice and not mix it up with Islamic principles coming directly from the Quran.
 
I used to think that Islam oppressed women, mainly because of what I watched about the Taliban regime in Afganistan. What they did was their own tribal and cultural practices and not in accordance with othordox Islamic teaching. Islam is the only religion that gurantees women the right to property, support and education.
 
I used to think that Islam oppressed women, mainly because of what I watched about the Taliban regime in Afganistan. What they did was their own tribal and cultural practices and not in accordance with othordox Islamic teaching. Islam is the only religion that gurantees women the right to property, support and education.

I don't think thats true. I am pretty sure Buddhism is ok with women owning property, and support, and education.
 
That is different then what you said, but thanks for that statement. I hope you have researched other religions to gurantee this though.

It has never been the case in Judism and Christianity. No where in the Bible is a woman guarenteed the right to property, education or even support.
 
It has never been the case in Judism and Christianity. No where in the Bible is a woman guarenteed the right to property, education or even support.

That is 3 religions out of maybe a hundred active ones? I am not sure, I am just hoping your not saying that for all religions without being correct and having researched the subject.
 
That is 3 religions out of maybe a hundred active ones? I am not sure, I am just hoping your not saying that for all religions without being correct and having researched the subject.

I think in Hindudism states something about property:

Wikpedia said:
Arthashastra and Manusamhita are sources about the woman's right to property or ‘Stridhan’, (literally meaning, property of wife). It is of two types: maintenance (in money or land given by the husband), and anything else like ornaments given to her by her family, husband, in-laws and the friends of her husband. Manu further subdivides this into six types - the property given by parents at marriage, given by the parental family when she is going to her husband’s house, given by her husband out of affection (not maintenance which he is bound to give), and property given separately by brother, mother and father [Manu IX 194]. Pre-nuptial contracts are also mentioned where the groom would agree to give a set amount of brideprice to both parents and the bride. Such property belonged to the wife alone and was not to be touched by the groom or her parents except in emergencies (in sickness, in famine, threated by robbers, or for performing holy deeds). At the same time, the Manu Smriti contradicts itself by declaring that a wife has no property and the wealth earned is for the husband [Manu VIII.416].

Daughters and sons equally inherited their mother's property; but some scriptures insist that a mother's property belongs solely to the daughters [Manu IX 131], in order of preference: unmarried daughters, married but poor daughters, married and rich daughters. When a father died, unmarried daughters had to be given a share in their father’s property, equal to one-fourth from every brother's share [since it is assumed that the married daughter had been given her share at marriage] [Manu IX. 118]. If the family has no sons, the (appointed) daughter is the sole inheritor of the property [Manu IX 127].
 
Salam all,

I will read this thread when I have time inshallah, but I have a specific question. If, according to the hadith, women lack intelligence and are deficient in religion, why are they threatened with Hellfire. Why are most of the dwellers of Hellfire women, if women were created this way (lacking intelligence and deficient in religion)? After all, it's not their fault that they are deficient in religion and lack intelligence. Thanks in advance.
 
:sl:
This might help some. Ny sis *Redeem*

"And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women" -2 :282


This verse has nothing to do with a biological or psychological deficiency in a woman. Let's look at the full verse.

O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write, as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must have Taqwa of Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable to dictate for himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So have Taqwa of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of everything.

As you can see, this verse refers to business dealings, something that is not in a woman's jurisdiction. While a man focuses his entire attention on business, and on handling the finances, the woman focuses hers on the household. It is not her duty to be aware of the finances of the household, it is the responsibility of the man. Therefore, she cannot be expected to keep up with business contracts for debts on top of her other responsibilities. BUT, if a situation were to arise that would require a woman's testimony, then one other woman should be present



"The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" - 4:11


Allow me to explain.

Let's say that a father passes away, and leaves his inheritance to his son, daughter, and wife. The son gets the biggest portion. The reason being that he was given more financial responsibilities than his sister and his mother. What he inherits does not belong to him alone, but to the entire family. His inheritance will be used to feed, clothe, and support his family, and any family that he starts. On the other hand, whatever a woman inherits is hers alone to do with as she pleases.

In the long run, a man ends up with an inheritance equal to, if not less, than a woman's.


"and the men are a degree above them [women]" -2 :228


This is taken completely out of context. Firstly, it is speaking of divorce, not all women in general. Secondly, the verse means "A degree of responsibility over them", not "a degree above women". This means that men have more responsibilities when it comes to their wives, than a woman does to her husband. Also, if you read the entire verse you would see that the verse does speak in light of women.


And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.)



"Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye" -24 :31


This one is also entirely out of context. The verse before it says:

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts. That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do.


"Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." -2 :223


This verse is speaking of sexual intercourse, not a general subject.

222. They ask you concerning menstruation. Say: "That is an Adha, therefore, keep away from women during menses and go not in unto them till they are purified.'' And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you. Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves.
223. Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth, when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offspring) for your own selves beforehand. And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give good tidings to the believers (O Muhammad ).

As for the "your wives are as a tilth unto you", I'm not sure that an explanation would be fit for this forum, since it involves the permissibility of certain sexual acts.

However, it refers to a certain position in which the Ansaar had superstitions about, and which was answered as being permissible.

Salam.

This post has been edited by Redeem: Dec 24 2007, 03:16 AM









However, this does not mean that woman and man are equal. Science proves that we are not.
 

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