Women say some rape victims should take blame - survey

[Pygoscelis]

Sure, it is UNWISE to walk down a dark alley with twenty dollar bills hanging out your pockets, or for a black man to walk into a KKK rally, but that doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the mugger or lyncher. And in no way should the fool be blamed or punished for such foolish behaviour. Its also unwise to be either an atheist or a muslim in the bible belt or an atheist or christian in many parts of the middle east (doesn't make it wrong to be or blameworthy to be)

 

[Eliphaz]

Who said someone told them to wear the hijab? Just as in the bible, it's tells women to be covered(in church, in prayer). I would asume they wear the hijab because they to believe it is written somewhere that God commanded them to do so. Why is that so hard to understand? we believe what we are taught from our holy books. Like as if you were taught something in school, but....we also have faith, and use it, and live by it. Some do wear it, some don't. That is their personal decision, not one that some person on the street told them to do to prevent rape. We do what we are told to glorify God...not man.

Of course Italianguy, I do understand. But to me, your religious book is the will of man disguised as the will of God. Therefore we (i.e. atheists, agnostics, deists) see any commandments in these books as the will of man being imposed on women.

@ Ummu Sufyan: Of course, men are also commanded to lower their gaze. But which is the larger commitment, lowering the gaze or the hijab?

Also, my point was that there aren't just two options here; miniskirts or hijab. There are 'modest' options which do not require hijab. If anything, I have seen that hijabs get negative attention from Muslim males instead, therefore does this not defeat the purpose?

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Of course Italianguy, I do understand. But to me, your religious book is the will of man disguised as the will of God.

for someone who doesn't believe in god (as you said, atheists-etc) , this would be the most apparent conclusion. of course someone who denounces and doesn't believe in god would immediately assume that.

so (with all due respect), why should the opinion of someone who doesn't believe in god be taken into consideration in this respect?

Therefore we (i.e. atheists, agnostics, deists) see any commandments in these books as the will of man being imposed on women.

why do people immeditaley assume that a woman covering her head denotes that it is imposed on her? since when was putting a piece of cloth on your head imposition?

@ Ummu Sufyan: Of course, men are also commanded to lower their gaze. But which is the larger commitment, lowering the gaze or the hijab?

i dont know. perhaps this question is best aimed at men who try lower their gazes in a society where women tend to be bearing all. i dont think its easy for him at all :hmm: that's one angle to look at it. another is, is it a question of whats easier and what isn't? has anyone ever taken into consideration that maybe women are so drop dead gorgeous no man deserves to look at her?

Also, my point was that there aren't just two options here; miniskirts or hijab. There are 'modest' options which do not require hijab. If anything, I have seen that hijabs get negative attention from Muslim males instead, therefore does this not defeat the purpose?

no there isn't. men are attracted to hair, men are attractive to body shape.
what is another option of "modesty" that includes concealing body shape, hair and skin sufficiently.

do note: im not in the least saying that women cover to help men keep their own piety-i frankly couldn't care less and i know for many sisters it wouldn't be to make men feel at ease. a lot of sister would wear it 1) to uphold gods commandments as best as she can and 2) to deter the gaze of men- not because she cares about them-i doubt she does -but because she doesn't appreciate that she may be looked at in that way by a strange man-and why should she? some men can be so perverted no matter how civilized they may come across as :embarrass men will always love women, and just because it isn't morally acceptable to touch her indecently, it doesn't mean it will preventing him from staring at her indecently. why should a woman be desensitized to a perverted gaze why is that more acceptable? i cant get my head around it.

i dont see how it is in her best interests or how it serves to preserve her value if she is made to put on display for every man who has no self control or respect towards women to look at her the way he may (if he finds her attractive). why should she be looked at like that?

it wouldn't be half the problem if a guy who cant lower his gaze is actually loyal to one woman to keep his eyes for only her-but the reality is, is that he is far far from this. a guy may look at a girl who happens to be dressed a certain *attractive* way, but we all know the second another attractive woman walks in-front of him, he'll "drop" the first in a heart beat. tell me, how is this fair to either women? and how is that going to make a girl feel that at one moment a guy who apparently found her so drop dead gorgeous 1 sec ago, will, a second later have his eyes fixed on another?

ugh! quit insulting my intelligence :heated:


p.s i dont mean my post to be a bash at men, but you all know what your like, im just stating the obvious :embarrass

 

[Eliphaz]

so (with all due respect), why should the opinion of someone who doesn't believe in god be taken into consideration in this respect?


why do people immeditaley assume that a woman covering her head denotes that it is imposed on her? since when was putting a piece of cloth on your head imposition?


i dont know. perhaps this question is best aimed at men who try lower their gazes in a society where women tend to be bearing all. i dont think its easy for him at all :hmm: that's one angle to look at it. another is, is it a question of whats easier and what isn't? has anyone ever taken into consideration that maybe women are so drop dead gorgeous no man deserves to look at her?



no there isn't. men are attracted to hair, men are attractive to body shape.
what is another option of "modesty" that includes concealing body shape, hair and skin sufficiently.

do note: im not in the least saying that women cover to help men keep their own piety-i frankly couldn't care less and i know for many sisters it wouldn't be to make men feel at ease. a lot of sister would wear it 1) to uphold gods commandments as best as she can and 2) to deter the gaze of men- not because she cares about them-i doubt she does -but because she doesn't appreciate that she may be looked at in that way by a strange man-and why should she? some men can be so perverted no matter how civilized they may come across as :embarrass men will always love women, and just because it isn't morally acceptable to touch her indecently, it doesn't mean it will preventing him from staring at her indecently. why should a woman be desensitized to a perverted gaze why is that more acceptable? i cant get my head around it.

i dont see how it is in her best interests or how it serves to preserve her value if she is made to put on display for every man who has no self control or respect towards women to look at her the way he may (if he finds her attractive). why should she be looked at like that?

it wouldn't be half the problem if a guy who cant lower his gaze is actually loyal to one woman to keep his eyes for only her-but the reality is, is that he is far far from this. a guy may look at a girl who happens to be dressed a certain *attractive* way, but we all know the second another attractive woman walks in-front of him, he'll "drop" the first in a heart beat. tell me, how is this fair to either women? and how is that going to make a girl feel that at one moment a guy who apparently found her so drop dead gorgeous 1 sec ago, will, a second later have his eyes fixed on another?

ugh! quit insulting my intelligence :heated:


p.s i dont mean my post to be a bash at men, but you all know what your like, im just stating the obvious :embarrass

I agree men are pigs, but hjiab doesn't change that. Instead it gives men more peace of mind that only they get to see their wife's hair fully and no other man, whilst they can theoretically still look at any women they want. How did this in any way change the attitude of the man?

Rape has happened and will always happen unless there are stricter punishments. Does the Qur'an or Sunnah prescribe any punishments for rape?

 

[AlbanianMuslim]

Sure, it is UNWISE to walk down a dark alley with twenty dollar bills hanging out your pockets, or for a black man to walk into a KKK rally, but that doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the mugger or lyncher. And in no way should the fool be blamed or punished for such foolish behaviour. Its also unwise to be either an atheist or a muslim in the bible belt or an atheist or christian in many parts of the middle east (doesn't make it wrong to be or blameworthy to be)

Your ignorance amazes me. Who said they should be punished? None of us said that. However, they should take part of the responsibility if the circumstances lead to the conclusion that the victim was being irresponsible at the time of the crim.

 

[AlbanianMuslim]

@ Ummu Sufyan: Of course, men are also commanded to lower their gaze. But which is the larger commitment, lowering the gaze or the hijab?

:heated: My God, you and your ridiculous questions. You seriously think that a man lowering his gaze when he sees a woman is anywhere near as big of a commitment as a woman wearing a hijab? You have got to be kidding me. Not only are you not in any position to even know what kind of commitment and courage it takes to wear the hijab, you continually insinuate that a woman who is modest regardless of whether she wears hijab or not is just as likely to be raped than a woman who doesnt wear it and wears a mini skirt instead. Utterly and irrevocably preposterous.

 

[AlbanianMuslim]

I agree men are pigs, but hjiab doesn't change that. Instead it gives men more peace of mind that only they get to see their wife's hair fully and no other man, whilst they can theoretically still look at any women they want. How did this in any way change the attitude of the man?

Rape has happened and will always happen unless there are stricter punishments. Does the Qur'an or Sunnah prescribe any punishments for rape?

Incorrect again. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that Muslim men are obligated to lower their gaze when they encounter women other than their wives or blood relations.

:hiding:

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I agree men are pigs, but hjiab doesn't change that.Instead it gives men more peace of mind that only they get to see their wife's hair fully and no other man, whilst they can theoretically still look at any women they want.
How did this in any way change the attitude of the man?

errr, can they? that's news to me.

ahh yes chop and change it any way you want, but as long you do anything BUT admit that the hijaab serves a purpose and is in favor of women, turning the argument around and curbing away from the point will always hold up an argument for people of your type. where in Islamic law says it is acceptable for him to do as you say? when/where have we condoned this? this is a completely separate issue in relation to the virtue of the hijaab which is was elaborating on earlier.

Rape has happened and will always happen unless there are stricter punishments. Does the Qur'an or Sunnah prescribe any punishments for rape?

for a non-married man, its a flogging, for a married man, its the stone... which is a lot more of a punishment then then those countries and movements who supposedly love and respect women. pssshht, pull the other one.

 

[tango92]

does a jeweller leave his shop open at night with no security and his merchandise on display? of course not because he KNOWS hes attracting the wrong people.

heck anyone would be tempted to walk in and grab something. (hopefully most people wouldnt)

and even more so if they knew the shopkeeper was too afraid to report the incident.

i hope this analogy makes sense. as for you feminists, a rapist does not conform to your views of morality. this is the real world.

 

[aadil77]

I hate women who dress immodestly, especially ones who cry about rape as if they aren't responsible in the slightest, some of these slags even get in bed naked with the 'rapist' and still cry rape.

If you're out at night half naked and drunk, you're basically leaving the back door open to strangers, so essentially some of the blame is on you.

Its like leaving the keys in the ignition, if your car gets stolen no car insurance company is gonna cover you because you're partially responsible and to blame

 

[cat eyes]

I hate women who dress immodestly, especially ones who cry about rape as if they aren't responsible in the slightest, some of these slags even get in bed naked with the 'rapist' and still cry rape.

If you're out at night half naked and drunk, you're basically leaving the back door open to strangers, so essentially some of the blame is on you.

Its like leaving the keys in the ignition, if your car gets stolen no car insurance company is gonna cover you because you're partially responsible and to blame

exactly. wasen there a couple of football players accused of rape in the u.k? all because she got in to bed with a load of men then she started crying rape :hmm: probably was a couple of years now i saw it on the news. obviously the woman has to take some blame not only that but these woman are encouraging other women to do the same thing

 

[Cabdullahi]

There are two groups of women those that choose to go to clubs and drink...then there's the innocent one's that were just minding their business when attacked...the uppermost group should be partly blamed and the latter group should be given full assistance until they can get their life back on track.