women, wrk, education and driving.

[Muhaba]

He might prefer that she looks after the kids at home instead of others raising them, he may think the environment she is in is not what he prefers (not dr specific but any job) . I didnt say working is forbidden, some husbands just prefer their wives not working. My husband doesnt want me to work and i have no problem with that at all, its not a dictatorship, it is something we discussed and i accepted. so if a husband demands his wife works and brings home a salary to support her half of the bills, thats not oppression or dictatorship?

While i don't know whether it is a man's right to stop his wife from working or keeping her from leaving the house, i do know that a man can't demand that his wife work and pay the bills. it's the man's responsibility to support the wife and even if she works, he can't take her money.

Also, a woman can make a man agree in a marriage contract that she be allowed to work etc and then the man won't be able to stop her since prenuptual contracts have to be respected islamically.

Furthermore, in the Quran it is written that if a woman commits indecency, then the man should lock her in the house. While this verse was abrogated by the verses regarding the punishment of zina, i think that a man doesn't have the right to tell his wife not to leave the house unless he suspects indecent behavior. Also, a man can't oppress his wife but has to give her a good life and anything that's oppressive to the wife shouldn't be done in my opinion, and that includes stopping the woman from working when she wants and when her working outside the house doesn't have any harmful effect on the children or husband's rights.

Would i marry a man who tells me not to work or not to leave the house without a valid reason? Most certainly not.

 

[Muhaba]

Allah says in the Quran, Surah Nisa:

O you who believe, you are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dower you have given them - except when they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

IMO, a man shouldn't be harsh to a woman and shouldn't force her not to work when she wants since that would be oppressive to the woman and may even make some woman seek divorce. Some men may do just that to force the wife to ask for divorce so she gives him back the mahr. A lot of times all i hear is how it is the husband's right that he be obeyed. I really think there are restrictions on the husband as well and he can't order his wife just anything and she must automatically obey just because he's her husband. A man must not order his wife anything that is oppressive to the woman, something that might be intolerable and would force her to get divorce. He must be kind and give her a good, comfortable life. The Prophet (SAW) said that the best one is the one who is good to women. Another hadith says that the best is the one who is good to his family.

So i believe that if the woman wants to work, can get work in islamically allowed conditions, and her working out of the house doesn't harm the children or family, that is, she has time to take care of the children and house well and can give attention to everyone in the family, then i don't think that it is the husband's right to stop the woman from working. And Allah knows best.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

This exactly why non Muslim thinks Islam is oppressive. I don’t understand why marriage can’t be a partnership where both partners come to a decision. Not one dictating to other. and what reasons would a man stop his wife from becoming a doctor or working as one for example? His ego...

Thanks for the replies. Interesting perspectives.

are you suggestion that Muslim women should work to prove herself to others?

 

[purple]

are you suggestion that Muslim women should work to prove herself to others?

Can’t you read what the post was in response to? It was in response to the husband being able to click his finger and all of the sudden stop his wife from working. That is oppressive unless they had a discussion and came to that decision. And if you had read my other post then you would have seen that I don’t see women who stay at home as inferior or those who work as superior. Be careful before you start to jump into swift and false conclusion.

 

[purple]

He might prefer that she looks after the kids at home instead of others raising them, he may think the environment she is in is not what he prefers (not dr specific but any job) . I didnt say working is forbidden, some husbands just prefer their wives not working. My husband doesnt want me to work and i have no problem with that at all, its not a dictatorship, it is something we discussed and i accepted. so if a husband demands his wife works and brings home a salary to support her half of the bills, thats not oppression or dictatorship?

Those types of men need find a sister that does not want to work instead of forcing a sister that wants to work and her work is not affecting her duty to quit working. And all women that work don’t raise their kids themselves? There is such a thing called ‘part time’ before or even work at home, two of which are becoming common amongst working women. Just like a stay at home mother, may give their children to grandparents for respite care, a working ‘part time’ mother gives her child to grandparents when she is working.

Unless there is a discussion between the husband wife and then finally the agreement between the two like in your case to stay at home. A husband telling his wife to stay at home when no thoughts and consideration of what the wife make feel and think is a dictator and oppressive.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

^ *rereads post* i get now. but i dont see how that comment you made that i quoted is relevant, thus the question still stands.

again, are you suggesting that Muslim women should work to prove herself to others?

and please point out to me what my accusation is? *confused*

 

[purple]

not necessarily. What is education? To have a degree?
education doesnt mean wisdom

Obtaining a degree or higher education doesn’t just entail the subject itself. The person also is able to come across wide range of subject. Like in science, you would have to able to write in academic English and have considerably knowledge in mathematics, history, geography, psychology and to an extent even sociology. Now if the person is able to obtain that level of education in further education, she is able to home school her children herself. Not just even home school her children but also have significantly understanding in the education system and criteria she would have to follow. Add that to Islamic education she may have also obtain would mean her child would have significant all around education that a straight from high school mother may not have.

You are right a degree doesnt equal wisdom. Instead it is added tool to prepare your child for outside world. And personally how the person uses what their learnt from mother, father etc illustrates wisdom for me. Not what they have learnt.

 

[purple]

That comment about non Muslims was in reference to the idea that a husband can stop is wife without thoughts and consideration for her. How is able to stop his wife from working because he wants to. This reflects idea most non Muslims have of Muslim marriage which often the husband has all the say, the wife is disregarded. The idea of Muslim marriage is a dictatorship not partnership. And I believe most Muslims are the latter in reality.

 

[Asiyah3]

Those types of men need find a sister that does not want to work instead of forcing a sister that wants to work and her work is not affecting her duty to quit working. And all women that work don’t raise their kids themselves? There is such a thing called ‘part time’ before or even work at home, two of which are becoming common amongst working women. Just like a stay at home mother, may give their children to grandparents for respite care, a working ‘part time’ mother gives her child to grandparents when she is working.

Are you talking about small children or older ones? A small child (under 7) needs his/her mother.

That comment about non Muslims was in reference to the idea that a husband can stop is wife without thoughts and consideration for her. How is able to stop his wife from working because he wants to. This reflects idea most non Muslims have of Muslim marriage which often the husband has all the say, the wife is disregarded. The idea of Muslim marriage is a dictatorship not partnership. And I believe most Muslims are the latter in reality.

Why did you bring non-Muslims into this? What on earth do they and their opinions have to do with Muslim women working?

 

[S_87]

Obtaining a degree or higher education doesn’t just entail the subject itself. The person also is able to come across wide range of subject. Like in science, you would have to able to write in academic English and have considerably knowledge in mathematics, history, geography, psychology and to an extent even sociology. Now if the person is able to obtain that level of education in further education, she is able to home school her children herself. Not just even home school her children but also have significantly understanding in the education system and criteria she would have to follow. Add that to Islamic education she may have also obtain would mean her child would have significant all around education that a straight from high school mother may not have.

You are right a degree doesnt equal wisdom. Instead it is added tool to prepare your child for outside world. And personally how the person uses what their learnt from mother, father etc illustrates wisdom for me. Not what they have learnt.

so the mother is homeschooling + following a career, wow thats gonna be one strong determined woman. I think your example is just pulling at straws tbh. As i said before, nothing wrong at all with further education but it doesnt mean a person without a degree is dumber. straight from high school doesnt mean a person stops learning.

muslim men arent dictators, sure some may be, but then thered have to be a lot of oppressed muslim women....

 

[Adem Al-Albani]

I voted yes to all three, but I think all should be limited within the bounds of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

 

[purple]

Are you talking about small children or older ones? A small child (under 7) needs his/her mother.


Why did you bring non-Muslims into this? What on earth do they and their opinions have to do with Muslim women working?

I was talking about older children and those under the age of seven are too young to be without their mother. But I also don’t see the problem with the mother working once or twice a week even with children under the age of seven especially if she has family around her.

I was merely pointing where few of the misconception about women and Islam comes from. The idea the husband can disregard his wife only adds fuel to fire and it concerns all Muslim women who reside in the west who constantly have to address this issue. It only right for me to point this out once. I didn’t even emphasise it at all, it is only you and Ummu reverting to them.

 

[purple]

so the mother is homeschooling + following a career, wow thats gonna be one strong determined woman. I think your example is just pulling at straws tbh. As i said before, nothing wrong at all with further education but it doesnt mean a person without a degree is dumber. straight from high school doesnt mean a person stops learning.

muslim men arent dictators, sure some may be, but then thered have to be a lot of oppressed muslim women....

Are you purposely trying to be foolish? Are you not at all following the reply you made to me earlier? I was talking about those women who get education but choose not to work. I can’t believe I even have to point this out to you.
I did not say Muslim men are dictators. Please read properly, that accusation you made of me generalising (which I did not do) is serious.

 

[purple]

so the mother is homeschooling + following a career, wow thats gonna be one strong determined woman. I think your example is just pulling at straws tbh. As i said before, nothing wrong at all with further education but it doesnt mean a person without a degree is dumber. straight from high school doesnt mean a person stops learning.

muslim men arent dictators, sure some may be, but then thered have to be a lot of oppressed muslim women....

I also did not say a person without degree is dumber. I simply stated the advantages of having futher education (and you dont have to have a degree to have a futher education btw) without wokring afterwards. Truthfully you owe me an apology for your selective amnesia.

 

[S_87]

While i don't know whether it is a man's right to stop his wife from working or keeping her from leaving the house, i do know that a man can't demand that his wife work and pay the bills. it's the man's responsibility to support the wife and even if she works, he can't take her money.

My point was, a man wanting his wife staying at home is seen as 'a man forcing his wife to be indoors' yet a man wanting his wife to work and bring home a wage-and yes ideally a womans money is a womans money but realistically in this day and age, especially when a womans salary is higher than herh usbands, she is expected to pay- is not seen as 'forcing his wife to work.' and yes a husband has right to stop his wife. a woman must obey her husband unless obedience to him means disobedience to Allah.

Also, a woman can make a man agree in a marriage contract that she be allowed to work etc and then the man won't be able to stop her since prenuptual contracts have to be respected islamically.

and what if her working is affecting her family life? Then what?

Furthermore, in the Quran it is written that if a woman commits indecency, then the man should lock her in the house. While this verse was abrogated by the verses regarding the punishment of zina, i think that a man doesn't have the right to tell his wife not to leave the house unless he suspects indecent behavior. Also, a man can't oppress his wife but has to give her a good life and anything that's oppressive to the wife shouldn't be done in my opinion, and that includes stopping the woman from working when she wants and when her working outside the house doesn't have any harmful effect on the children or husband's rights.

Would i marry a man who tells me not to work or not to leave the house without a valid reason? Most certainly not.

I dunno if its just me but its like a man who doesnt want his wife to work is an oppressive man telling his wife not to work lol. would i marry a man who expects me to have a career n bring home a wage? most certainly not. i guess it works both ways.
Like i said to each their own, but the fact is the husband the right.

 

[marwen]

<_< nice poll results ...
move that thread to the Brothers's section for 30 seconds, then return it back here, and I'm sure the poll results will be better :Evil:

 

[S_87]

Are you purposely trying to be foolish? Are you not at all following the reply you made to me earlier? I was talking about those women who get education but choose not to work. I can’t believe I even have to point this out to you.
I did not say Muslim men are dictators. Please read properly, that accusation you made of me generalising (which I did not do) is serious.

lol do i have to point on your rambling on 'non muslims think the husband has all the say' when u said that YOU generalised non muslim thought with the wealth of experience you have on what ' most non muslims think'


and how can i know what you mean when from the sound of it your idea of a husband not preferring his wife to work is a DICTATORSHIP where she has no say? When from the sound of it, the women arent given the choice not to choose to not work, because 'most non muslims think its the husband.' you are the one that implied the above.

and no i dont owe you any apology. where does it say women who stay at home dont still educate themselves within the home, only officially doing the high school root?


and FYI, in the poll i voted the first 3 options, i have no problem as a woman with them, what i have a problem with is the whole husbands preferring wives at home=oppressed women situation going on here

 

[purple]

My point was, a man wanting his wife staying at home is seen as 'a man forcing his wife to be indoors' yet a man wanting his wife to work and bring home a wage-and yes ideally a womans money is a womans money but realistically in this day and age, especially when a womans salary is higher than herh usbands, she is expected to pay- is not seen as 'forcing his wife to work.' and yes a husband has right to stop his wife. a woman must obey her husband unless obedience to him means disobedience to Allah.

Can you please point out anyone that said a husband expecting his wife to pay and work is not oppressive until then reduce your emotional outburst.

and what if her working is affecting her family life? Then what?

Then he has every right to stop her, like me and muhaba already said SEVERAL TIMES.

I dunno if its just me but its like a man who doesnt want his wife to work is an oppressive man telling his wife not to work lol. would i marry a man who expects me to have a career n bring home a wage? most certainly not. i guess it works both ways.

NO, it just you and your selective and imaginative reading. Would I marry a husband that tells me to stop working even though my work is not way conflicting with my duty? NO way.

Like i said to each their own, but the fact is the husband the right.

The husband has right to disregard his wife feelings even though her work is no way affecting her duty? Is that what you agreed to, then that is oppressive.
I don’t know why you are reading so selectively, maybe is because you are truly unhappy to be told to stay at home? If that is not case, then what is the explanation of your response that overlooks all that we have said. The only explanation is emotional outburst.

 

[purple]

lol do i have to point on your rambling on 'non muslims think the husband has all the say' when u said that YOU generalised non muslim thought with the wealth of experience you have on what ' most non muslims think'

:uhwhatAnd you are pointing this out to me now because....? Again selective reading? or you dont want to mention the part where I one of the few misconception? no? nah let forget about that.


and how can i know what you mean when from the sound of it your idea of a husband not preferring his wife to work is a DICTATORSHIP where she has no say? When from the sound of it, the women arent given the choice not to choose to not work, because 'most non muslims think its the husband.' you are the one that implied the above.

Again selective reading! I did not say that. In fact, I just think that you think a wife feeling and views is less important? I will quote one of what I have several times already:

Unless there is a discussion between the husband wife and then finally the agreement between the two like in your case to stay at home. A husband telling his wife to stay at home when no thoughts and consideration of what the wife make feel and think is a dictator and oppressive.

and no i dont owe you any apology. where does it say women who stay at home dont still educate themselves within the home, only officially doing the high school root?

Yes you do owe me an apology. Again I have to repeat what I said, I was talking about those who go into education then marry and dont work. Those who alreday been through the education system not those who choose not to go through the education system.

and FYI, in the poll i voted the first 3 options, i have no problem as a woman with them, what i have a problem with is the whole husbands preferring wives at home=oppressed women situation going on here

Again, I did not say if a husband prefer his wife to stay at home equal oppressive, I clearly said I have a problem with those agreed first to allow their wives to work then click his finger and says no for no good reason. Not taking her into consideration at all. I also they should marry woman who want to stay at home.

Do you like jumping into conclusion btw?

 

[tigerkhan]

i just want to shear some line regarding "work". maybe it would be helpful.
i heard one Hazrat Ali RA came home and there is nothing to eat. even his sons Hasan and Hassian RA had not eaten anything. so he went to a garden to do some work. and he deal with jew owner of garden that he will give water to plants on rate of some dates for every plant. when he finish the owner say, if u do some more work, i will give u double payment. But Hazrat Ali Ra siad, no what i had earned is suffcient for my need so even for double payment he was not ready to do anymore work.
2. Hazart Abu Darda Ra siad; B4 isalm i do business, after islam i try to combine business and worship/ebaadat, but i didnt succeed. he say now i even dont like that i have a shop near a door to masjid so that it dont disturb/harm my ebadaat and all income i give in charity and sadqa. someone ask its a good option but y dont u like it. he replied, i have to give hisaab/exam for it. mean in start he do business and ebaadat both but with the some time passes he got so much strength in emaan, ilam, taqwa and ammal that ALLAH SWT give him all the things with out doing any work, so he leave work. (plz note Allah SWt has promised for mutaqeen to give him rizq from where they dont imagine).

hopefully it throw some light on how much is the importance of "work" in times of Proophet PBUH. mean they do it according to need. but what today we are doing, we are spenting our whole lives in this "career pbm". even girls today have this madness/janoon, they are not islamically responsible for that. i am not saying that women should not work but i mean (as i mentioned in my last post in this thread), i blv this work is a secondary thing. we have some other purpose, to learn islam, emman, ammal, taqwq, tawaqal etc and spread this to all world. we should do work whether its man or women if its supportive to our purpose. as Asma Ra did bcz Zubair RA was mostly busy in deen and dawa work. she was not islamically responsible for that, but they have done it bcz they have purpose and they all are supportive to each other for this purpose.
JZK