women

What about grown woman that have older adults as children, she would hardly ever be giving birth at the late stage. And a woman is not always and some hardly affected by hormonal changes.

Plus leaders don’t always make decision on the spot. They most often plan ahead and have discussion with their “team”. So even if a woman was to be giving birth, she would still most likely have back up plan or planned ahead.
 
And isnt this sexist?

Do you think that the fact that a woman cannot be an imaam is sexist? Or what about the fact that we have to wear hijaab, and men don't?

Allah designed our bodies and our emotions to fit certain roles. He did not create us the same. Our roles are NOT equal, but they are equally valuable.

Also consider, that if female leadership was allowed , then

• The messengers of Allâh were always men. Never was a lady deputed as a Rasul or Nabi. "And we have not sent messengers before you except that they were men." [Al-Ambiyâ: 7]
• Rasoolullah :saws: had during his lifetime despatched many jamâts (for the sake of da'wah and jihad etc.) but never did he appoint a female as ameer of any of these jamâts.


As to your question, I suggest you ask a scholar.

:sl:
 
sorry to say sister. that is no logic. And plus he is not a scholar.
Be honest sis, did you even watch the video? :-\

You want logical proofs, okay so I'll post them in sisters section and would give you the link here.
 
But the above have reasons I can understand and most people would be able to understand. But I do not understanding leading the country and I still don’t.

But accept that women cannot lead a country with great disappointment. However I want to know the closest women can get to leadership. Yeah I think I will ask a scholar.
So if a woman was to look after her household and take cares of her husband whilst worshiping Allah (swt), she would have equal rewards then a man who leads his country or leads a war. I don’t think these are equally valuable. Isn’t leading a country more valued then wife looking after her house?
 
Be honest sis, did you even watch the video? :-\

You want logical proofs, okay so I'll post them in sisters section and would give you the link here.

Yes I did watch the video.

The thing is I don’t view women as weak or vulnerable or even emotional as some may do. Perhaps, maybe this where how I was brought up comes into play and influenced my way of thinking.
 
Yes I did watch the video.

The thing is I don’t view women as weak or vulnerable or even emotional as some may do.
We are definitely physically weak. Yeah not vulnerable. We are definitely emotional for reason you know already.
 
=sweet106;1342612]What about grown woman that have older adults as children, she would hardly ever be giving birth at the late stage. And a woman is not always and some hardly affected by hormonal changes.

Actually, nowadays women are having kids later and later. Older women go through the change. They have lots of health issues - hormonal and non hormonal. But anyway, none of that matters. Allah is The Most Wise, and if He has prohibited something for the Ummah then His wisdom shouldn't be questioned. Na udhu billah.

Plus leaders don’t always make decision on the spot. They most often plan ahead and have discussion with their "team"
Yup, that's normal for men.


So even if a woman was to be giving birth, she would still most likely have back up plan or planned ahead.

There is no planning ahead, or backup plan for having a baby. You can't decide when the baby comes. You can't decide how long the labour lasts. You can't just pop the baby back in if it arrives during a slanging match in the houses of Parliament. What if there are complications for mother or baby, or both? Come on sis, why do you feel so strongly about women being leaders? We are the leaders. We are responsible for leading the new generation to become good muslims. Is any job more important than that? A country doesn't just need a good leader, it needs good citizens if it's going to prosper, and what better citizens can a country have than good practicing muslims?




:wa:
 
No one in Islamic history believed this, and the scholars have ijmaa' that this is not permissible and the leader should be a male. The hadeeth related by al Bukhari is sufficient. We should be from those who hear and obey. Wallaahu'3lam, this is what Shaykh Munajjid said on the matter





Is it legal islamicly to acknowledge females as our leader?

Praise be to Allaah.

Positions of leadership and high public office means taking on the mission of establishing Islam by reviving religious knowledge and establishing its foundations, engaging in jihaad for the sake of Allaah – which includes preparing armies and distributing war booty – establishing the judicial system, carrying out judicial punishments (hudood), fighting oppression, enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil, acting as a deputy of the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

There is no dispute among the scholars that one of the conditions of the imaam or leader is that he should be male. Ibn Hazam reported in his book Maraatib al-Ijmaa’ that there was scholarly consensus on this point. In the section he says: “Out of all groups of the people of the Qiblah [i.e., all Muslim sects], there is not one that allows the leadership of women.” Al-Qurtubi reported something similar, and al-‘Allaamah al-Shanqeeti said, “There is no difference of opinion among the scholars on this point.”

The evidence for this is the general meaning of the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other…” [al-Nisa’ 4:34]. It is also clearly indicated by the hadeeth of Abu Bakrah who said that when the Prophet SAW?S (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) heard that the Persians had appointed the daughter of Chosroes as their queen, he said, “No people who appoint a woman as their leader will ever prosper.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 13/53).

This is because positions of leadership and government require a person to join men’s gatherings, which is not allowed for women according to sharee’ah because of the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…” [al-Ahzaab 33:33]. These positions also require perfect wisdom, reason and alertness, and the testimony of a man has been made equal to that of two women, the reason for which Allaah has explained in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “… so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…” [al-Baqarah 2:282].

Imaam al-Muwaffaq Ibn Qudaamah said:

“For this reason the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his successors (khulafa’) and those who came after them never appointed a woman to be a judge or a governor of a province, as far as we know. If it were permissible, it should have happened.”

Imaam al-Ghazaali said:

“The position of leader (imaam) could never be given to a woman even if she possessed all the qualities of perfection and self-reliance. How could a woman take the position of leader when she did not have the right to be a judge or a witness under most of the historical governments?”

Imaam al-Baghawi said:

“The scholars agreed that women are not fit to be leaders or judges, because the leader needs to go out to organize jihaad and take care of the Muslims’ affairs, and the judge needs to go out to judge between people, but women are ‘awrah and it is not right for them to go out. Because of their weakness, women are not able to do many things. Women are imperfect, and the positions of leaders and judge are among the most perfect of positions for which only the most perfect of men are qualified.”

Undoubtedly this is proven by reality. People know from experience that only men are fit for leadership, because women by nature are more emotional and more easily swayed by their feelings and compassion. These qualities have been created in women to enable them to carry out their most important duty, which is that of motherhood and nurturing children. Men, on the other hand, are not usually swayed by their emotions as women are. Their way is usually one of logic and deliberation, which form the essence of responsibility and leadership.

With regard to the question of whether a woman may be appointed as a judge, the majority of Maaliki, Shaafa’i and Hanbali scholars say that a woman cannot be appointed as a judge, because of the general meaning of the hadeeth of Abu Bakrah quoted above.

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said:

“Ibn al-Teen said: Those who say that a woman cannot be appointed as a judge use the hadeeth of Abu Bakrah as evidence, and this is the view of the majority.”

With regard to other administrative positions, there is no shar’i reason why women should not be appointed to run institutions where they will work with other women and not men, because in this case there are no shar’i reservations about their work.

There is no validity in what most modern writers say about how women have to go out and take part in parliaments and public councils, and that these are part of the rights granted to women by Islam. These writers have not examined the issue from the correct Islamic viewpoint. The truth is clear, but unfortunately they look at it with minds filled with the heretic trends of East and West. Therefore you see them weakened and defeated, dazzled by the false civilizations of those nations, then they come and misinterpret the texts and change the words from their right places until they agree with their whims. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

See: Fath al-Baari by Ibn Hajar, 13/55; Maraatib al-Ijmaa’ by Ibn Hazam, 125; Adwa’ al-Bayaan by al-Shanqeeti, 1/55; Sharh al-Sunnah by al-Baghawi, 10/77; Tafseer al-Qutubi, 1/271; al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Nihal by Ibn Hazm, 4/110.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/3285/women leaders
 
So if a woman was to look after her household and take cares of her husband whilst worshiping Allah (swt), she would have equal rewards then a man who leads his country or leads a war. I don’t think these are equally valuable.

Hadeeth narrated by Ibn Hibbaan: “If a woman offers her five daily prayers and fasts her month (i.e., Ramadaan) and guards her chastity and obeys her husband, it will be said to her: ‘Enter Paradise from whichever of the gates of Paradise you wish.’” This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’ al-Sagheer, no. 660.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

Isn’t leading a country more valued then wife looking after her house?

A woman will be rewarded for her work in the house if she seeks reward with Allaah for that, and is sincere in her intention. From: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/69960/woman reward
 
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But the above have reasons I can understand and most people would be able to understand. But I do not understanding leading the country and I still don’t.

But accept that women cannot lead a country with great disappointment. However I want to know the closest women can get to leadership. Yeah I think I will ask a scholar.
So if a woman was to look after her household and take cares of her husband whilst worshiping Allah (swt), she would have equal rewards then a man who leads his country or leads a war. I don’t think these are equally valuable. Isnt leading a country more valued then wife looking after her house?

Leaders don't raise themselves sis. A leader is raised because a mother stayed at home to raise him. She shaped his personality from which he extracted leadership qualities. It is because she 'looked after the house' that he is a leader today.
 
this is unfortunately a possible end to 'women politicians'

56512F5BD02248AB9C8245EEB53E7C40_mw800_m-1.jpg



certainly even the sahaba weren't spared assassination plots.. question is why this job is the only one of interest when there are so many better ones? there are modern day jobs that women can't hold in the 'industrialized world'

please see here:


Russia's constitution guarantees men and women equal employment but the country's labor code states women shouldn't do hard, physical labor or jobs that entail harmful or dangerous conditions. And the code lists 460 jobs off limits to women. Jobs like chimney sweep, fire fighter, blacksmith, steel worker, and metro train operator. But women here can drive buses, trams, and trolleys.
http://www.pri.org/world/jobs-women-can_t-do-russia1427.html

:w:
 
here is another one about women't role in the american military:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100405110906AAgJb1U

though believe it or not women still went out on the battlefield during the time of the prophet, it is definitely not recommended.. a woman today is no different than a woman a thousand years ago.. they'll have you believing that it is 'liberating' to hold said jobs but there is no liberation or 'equal opportunity' in that whatsoever!

:w:
 
Basically from what I gather, not only can a woman not lead but she can’t also be part of the government like ministers?

I feel strongly about women being leaders because: 1. is because I believe they would actually focus the harmful things happening to women and children in Muslims countries. i.e. forced marriage and domestic violence. 2. I think women would have more insight on community cohesion and would also get more women involved. 3. She would most likely to reduce unjust rulings concerning women and children.

Anyways thanks for all information, it was useful.
 
Basically from what I gather, not only can a woman not lead but she can’t also be part of the government like ministers?

I feel strongly about women being leaders because: 1. is because I believe they would actually focus the harmful things happening to women and children in Muslims countries. i.e. forced marriage and domestic violence. 2. I think women would have more insight on community cohesion and would also get more women involved. 3. She would most likely to reduce unjust rulings concerning women and children.

Anyways thanks for all information, it was useful.
I disagree with your point 2. Its as if you are condoning women supremacy, as if men are devoid of this knowledge.
 
women can be part of juries and make decisions concerning their affairs, who said that they can't.. this is different from running a country!

:w:
 
Basically from what I gather, not only can a woman not lead but she can’t also be part of the government like ministers?

I feel strongly about women being leaders because: 1. is because I believe they would actually focus the harmful things happening to women and children in Muslims countries. i.e. forced marriage and domestic violence. 2. I think women would have more insight on community cohesion and would also get more women involved. 3. She would most likely to reduce unjust rulings concerning women and children.

Anyways thanks for all information, it was useful.



The beauty of the sharee3ah is that it is not confined to time. The issues you present are mainly contemporary issues and are specific to certain places. However these are not absolute issues. Secondly you're assuming that a woman WOULD do such and such and you cannot just assume that based upon personal experiences or thoughts. The sharee3ah is complete and we should feel safe in the decisions and recommendations of Allah and His Messenger.

Whatever Allah and His Messenger have given us is good and whatever they have prohibited us from is harmful. So we should feel content with such a ruling despite thinking of certain benefits. Remember the ruling on alcohol, Allah mentions some benefits but the harm outweighs the benefits.
 
Excellent posts AhmadibnNasroon. So a woman would have to leave Islam to be a leader and she could only lead non Muslims. Also you must remember that "women grow old, men get more dignified" and in politics image is very important. Even the ancient pagans couldn't stand an effeminate man leading them let alone a woman
 
Does the juries include ministers?


@ AhmadibnNasroon

The issue are presented in neither contemporary nor for just specific places, it is widespread many Muslim countries and such practices were carried for centuries. Some Muslim cultures believe it is perfectly okay to beat their wives with weapon let alone hands. And many Muslim cultures from Asia, Middle East to Africa believe you must accept marriage arranged for you because Islam (that is what they say) says you should obey your parents to the extent that they have to accept anyone presented to them at any given age. So a young girl or boy cannot question their parents concerning their marriages despite their parent’s true intention may not be to give their daughters to righteous man but for wealth. Such ignorance across the Muslim world is still strong and carried out.

I have not seen any of these Muslim countries run by men address such issue unless they are pressured to so. Any women would be keen to sort out their ignorance and would have willingness to protect their own sisters and children.

You might disgree, but I certainly believe women in particular would be very good at it.
 
@ Sweet106. I have noticed that you seem to be exerting most of your time here CHALLENGING and REBELLING against Islam rather than being a supportive part of it, like you see most other Muslims here do. You should learn about Islam FIRST before you convert to it. Your concerns are repetitively based on the contemporary insipid viewpoints of Western misandrists/socialists/atheists rather than from Islamic viewpoints. And we would not be making any mistake by saying that those who primarily peddle these mentalities are most often the most severest and rancourest enemies of Islam ANYWAY. Yet you preach their predictable strings of catch-cries such as "women's rights!", "what about the children!", "stop child labour!", "stop arranged marriages!", "stop polygamy!" etc etc. Your political cliches sound more like something being bludgeoned into my ears by the mawkish catch-cries that I hear every time I dare to switch my tv channel over to BBC to listen to their drivelling propaganda machine in action. I'm just curious why you are trying to peddle these platitudinous concerns that I am always hearing from the secularist and misandric enemies of Islam rather than the kinds of priority concerns one would expect to come from an authentic Muslim? Why is that??
 
Does the juries include ministers?


@ AhmadibnNasroon

The issue are presented in neither contemporary nor for just specific places, it is widespread many Muslim countries and such practices were carried for centuries. Some Muslim cultures believe it is perfectly okay to beat their wives with weapon let alone hands. And many Muslim cultures from Asia, Middle East to Africa believe you must accept marriage arranged for you because Islam (that is what they say) says you should obey your parents to the extent that they have to accept anyone presented to them at any given age. So a young girl or boy cannot question their parents concerning their marriages despite their parent’s true intention may not be to give their daughters to righteous man but for wealth. Such ignorance across the Muslim world is still strong and carried out.

I have not seen any of these Muslim countries run by men address such issue unless they are pressured to so. Any women would be keen to sort out their ignorance and would have willingness to protect their own sisters and children.

You might disgree, but I certainly believe women in particular would be very good at it.

I understand your concern however you're presenting a separate issue here. You cannot use what you see from Muslim countries and parallel that with the sharee3ah. Rather see what the sharee3ah says and then decide. As for juries, then allaahu'3lam I don't know of any such thing in the sharee3ah, rather you have a qadih who is presented a case and makes a verdict based upon evidences presented to him and the verdict is based upon knowledge of fiqh/sharee3ah.

But these issues presented doesn't change the fact that a woman leader is not good for the ummah. The Messenger told us this and Allah told us that men are the protectors and maintainers of women. The wali'ul 'Amr is exactly that, a wali to the people. There are many issues that were presented before from other posters that show why a woman is not capable of leading a nation.

Allah azza'wajal has blessed women with such a sacred role that they are the ones who nurture leaders. I feel sometimes sisters downgrade the position that Islam has blessed women with and this shouldn't be the case. We shouldn't get distracted or fooled by the images the kuffar depict to us as to what a "real" woman should be. Their success is not our success.

A woman who prays 5x a day, fasts, pays the zakat, goes to hajj, and obeys her husband will enter any of the gates of jannah. Just look at how great of a reward that is? A woman's jihad is hajj, just look at that. Look how Allah honored the woman and made her jannah easy for her to attain in certain respects.

Also regarding the Muslim countries and "juries", these lands do not rule by the hukm of Allah so its pointless in using them as an example. Rather lets look at how the sa7abah radiallaahu anhum ajma3een dealt with the issues you presented and use that as as a guide.

May Allah cause us to love the sharee3ah ameen
 

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