Woolworths Facing Wrath Over Hot Cross Buns

[~Zaria~]

Woolies facing wrath over hot cross buns
2012-03-29 09:26


Cape Town - Woolworths is facing criticism from a few Christians for putting a Halaal certification mark on its hot cross buns, but a bishop has labelled it "nothing more than a storm in a baking pan".

The Cape Times reported on Thursday that people had written e-mails and used social networking sites to voice disapproval of the use of a Muslim mark on a food that had special significance for Christians.

One Christian wrote on Woolworths Facebook wall: “Ja, its sad to hear the woolies we supported all these years turned their backs on Christians.

“Really disappointed. Lucky we received that email, man its spreading like a wild fire. Proud to say a few people I know are boycotting W, including me [sic].”

Another wrote: “I hate woolworths... How can you do that to the Christians, I hope that God will have mercy on you. And dnt be surprised if your shops run bankrupt.. I will pray to my living God and you will see what he is capable of! [sic]”


SA Catholic Bishops' Conference spokesperson Chris Townsend said people were overreacting and needed to be more understanding.

"Hot cross buns are only a symbol, and not a central tenet of Christianity. There are a lot more weighty issues to deal with in SA than a few 'hot cross Christians'," he was quoted as saying.

The food chain apologised for the upset and said it would release separate buns in future - non-Halaal certified hot cross buns and Halaal certified spiced buns.

http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/News/Woolies-facing-wrath-over-hot-cross-buns-20120329

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'hot cross Christians' - LOL!!


I didnt realise that hot cross buns had religious significance in Christianity......:/



:wa:

 

[GodIsAll]

Heck, I didn't even know Woolworth's was still in business.

People: They amaze me in their petty squabbles. Now, how important is this? Really? The energy spent by these people in protesting this could be spent doing something productive and useful. This reminds me of the outrage of the symbol some Muslims protested on the Burger King ice cream cones that...sort of....if you held it at the right angle....resembled the arabic word for "Allah".

While I am here and the moment seems right:

"Hot Cross Buns
Hot Cross Buns
One a penny
Two a Penny
Hot Cross Buns"

Have a nice day.

 

[جوري]

I think they've a different woolworth in England than the one that went out of business in the U.S...

 

[Marina-Aisha]

i totally thought it was out of business,so it has halal wots the big deal?who gives a monkeys!!!get a life??this how ur spend ur time wasting it on some halal mark?

 

[GodIsAll]

i totally thought it was out of business,so it has halal wots the big deal?who gives a monkeys!!!get a life??this how ur spend ur time wasting it on some halal mark?

Exactly...

 

[GodIsAll]

I think they've a different woolworth in England than the one that went out of business in the U.S...

I was wondering. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Dagless]

Did anyone else read the quotes in a South African accent?
I don't think they should have the halal mark tbh since the vegetarian mark covers all bases. It would be different if they contained meat.
Btw Woolies still have a web presence in the UK.

 

[aadil77]

Did anyone else read the quotes in a South African accent?
I don't think they should have the halal mark tbh since the vegetarian mark covers all bases. It would be different if they contained meat.
Btw Woolies still have a web presence in the UK.

alcohol is common in cakes

 

[Dagless]

alcohol is common in cakes

1) I don't believe it is haraam since it cannot intoxicate.
2) It is listed in the ingredients so the halal label is not necessary.

 

[Insaanah]

1) I don't believe it is haraam since it cannot intoxicate.

It was narrated from 'Amir bin Sa'd, from his father, that:

The Prophet :saws: said: "I forbid to you small amounts of whatever intoxicates in large amounts."

أَخْبَرَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ الْحَكَمِ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي الضَّحَّاكُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ، عَنْ بُكَيْرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الأَشَجِّ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ أَنْهَاكُمْ عَنْ قَلِيلِ مَا أَسْكَرَ كَثِيرُهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

(Sunan an-Nasai Vol. 6, Book 5, Hadith 5611)

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:

The Prophet :saws: said: "If a large amount of anything causes intoxication, a small amount of it is prohibited."

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ جَعْفَرٍ - عَنْ دَاوُدَ بْنِ بَكْرِ بْنِ أَبِي الْفُرَاتِ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْمُنْكَدِرِ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ مَا أَسْكَرَ كَثِيرُهُ فَقَلِيلُهُ حَرَامٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

(Sunan Abi Dawud 3681 : Book 27, Hadith 13)

It was narrated that Ibn 'Abbas said:

"Khamr was forbidden in and of itself, in small or large amounts, as was every kind of intoxicating drink."

أَخْبَرَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ، ح وَأَنْبَأَنَا الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مَنْصُورٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ حَنْبَلٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ مِسْعَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِي عَوْنٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ شَدَّادٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ حُرِّمَتِ الْخَمْرُ بِعَيْنِهَا قَلِيلُهَا وَكَثِيرُهَا وَالسُّكْرُ مِنْ كُلِّ شَرَابٍ ‏.‏ لَمْ يَذْكُرِ ابْنُ الْحَكَمِ قَلِيلُهَا وَكَثِيرُهَا ‏.‏

(Sunan an-Nasai Vol. 6, Book 5, Hadith 5688)

And Allah knows best in all matters.

 

[Dagless]

It was narrated from 'Amir bin Sa'd, from his father, that:

The Prophet :saws: said: "I forbid to you small amounts of whatever intoxicates in large amounts."

أَخْبَرَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ مَخْلَدٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ الْحَكَمِ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي الضَّحَّاكُ بْنُ عُثْمَانَ، عَنْ بُكَيْرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الأَشَجِّ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ أَنْهَاكُمْ عَنْ قَلِيلِ مَا أَسْكَرَ كَثِيرُهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

(Sunan an-Nasai Vol. 6, Book 5, Hadith 5611)

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:

The Prophet :saws: said: "If a large amount of anything causes intoxication, a small amount of it is prohibited."

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ جَعْفَرٍ - عَنْ دَاوُدَ بْنِ بَكْرِ بْنِ أَبِي الْفُرَاتِ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْمُنْكَدِرِ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ مَا أَسْكَرَ كَثِيرُهُ فَقَلِيلُهُ حَرَامٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

(Sunan Abi Dawud 3681 : Book 27, Hadith 13)

It was narrated that Ibn 'Abbas said:

"Khamr was forbidden in and of itself, in small or large amounts, as was every kind of intoxicating drink."

أَخْبَرَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ، ح وَأَنْبَأَنَا الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مَنْصُورٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ حَنْبَلٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ مِسْعَرٍ، عَنْ أَبِي عَوْنٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ شَدَّادٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ حُرِّمَتِ الْخَمْرُ بِعَيْنِهَا قَلِيلُهَا وَكَثِيرُهَا وَالسُّكْرُ مِنْ كُلِّ شَرَابٍ ‏.‏ لَمْ يَذْكُرِ ابْنُ الْحَكَمِ قَلِيلُهَا وَكَثِيرُهَا ‏.‏

(Sunan an-Nasai Vol. 6, Book 5, Hadith 5688)

And Allah knows best in all matters.

But no amount of hot cross buns can intoxicate?

 

[Insaanah]

^ the last hadeeth also says that khamr was forbidden in and of itself, in small or large amounts.

Thus even if they don't intoxicate, it's presence in them would make them forbidden.

It may be that scholars have varying opinions on this, Allahu a3lam. But avoiding them has to be better.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

 

[Dagless]

^ the last hadeeth also says that khamr was forbidden in and of itself, in small or large amounts.

Thus even if they don't intoxicate, it's presence in them would make them forbidden.

It may be that scholars have varying opinions on this, Allahu a3lam. But avoiding them has to be better.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

"In and of itself" means on it's own. This is inside of another product.
Maybe there are different opinions then.

 

[Marina-Aisha]

Well if there's any doubt, it's best to stay away from such products.

 

[Insaanah]

"In and of itself" means on it's own. This is inside of another product.
Maybe there are different opinions then.

I was understanding in and of itself to mean without considering anything else, i.e. without considering if it's in a cake/hot cross bun or not.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+and+of+itself

Allah knows best.

Well if there's any doubt, it's best to stay away from such products.

I agree.

 

[aadil77]

lol if hot cross buns are all that christians have left they sure are done for ;D

 

[aadil77]

But no amount of hot cross buns can intoxicate?

I'm not talking about naturally occuring ethanol, champagne and other alcoholic drinks are specially added to certain cakes for flavour and they will be labelled suitable for vegetarians

maybe not in hot cross buns, but does happen

 

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,


Just came across this tongue-in-cheek reply by a local newspaper, addressing this hot-cross buns uproar.

Pretty funny......

The Christian is spot on here.
I didnt find some of the atheists comments too amusing though......






In bun we trust

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In a Bunfight
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FARANAAZ PARKER, VERASHNI PILLAY AND CHRIS ROPER JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA - Mar 30 2012 13:06



The furore around Woolworths' tasty confectionary -- the esteemed hot cross bun -- has forced the Mail & Guardian to step up and pit religious and non-religious types against each other to settle the debate.

The Cape Times reported on Thursday that people had written e-mails and used social networking sites to voice disapproval of the use of a Muslim mark on a food that had special significance for Christians.


The Muslim: Faranaaz Parker

Let's set the record straight for anyone who might think that an imam prayed over their hot cross buns.

For Muslims, anything that God has decreed to be permissible is halaal. Halaal could be used to speak about the type of businesses you can invest in or the kind of jewellery you can wear.

Mostly though it's used to talk about food. There are all sorts of rules about which foods Muslims can and can't eat, and things get tricky when it comes to ritual slaughter.

But fish, fruit and vegetables aren't slaughtered so they're an easy choice.

Your hot cross buns are made entirely out of vegetable products so there's no need for anyone to pray over the batter while the baker stirs in currants and citrus peel.

The stamp on the package simply signals to Muslims that it's okay to eat those buns -- not that someone prayed over them.

So if you want to get mad at someone for making your buns halaal, don't get mad at Woolworths or the halaal authority who sold them the right to put a stamp on the packaging. Get mad at God. He made the vegetables in your hot cross buns halaal.

The sad part here is the solution we've arrived at -- the same buns packaged differently so Christians who have issues with a crescent moon stamp can eat hot cross buns and Muslims can eat the exact same buns but labelled "spiced buns".

And we wonder why the atheists just laugh at us.



TheChristian: Verashni Pillay

Christianity is simple right? A baby was born a long time ago and grew up to become a shaggy-haired Father Christmas who delivers presents every December wrapped in the emblematic colours of red, green and gold.

A few months later we eat the body of Christ in the form of a bun with a cross stamped atop and a few days after that we celebrate new life by eating a candy egg, symbolising the chocolatey goodness that is candy-coated paganism and hollow theology.

Wake up people. A piece of confectionary that probably dates back to the 8th century in honour of the goddess Eostre does not a Christian make.

So I have to ask my fellow Christians who penned those angry and insulting mails, comments and petitions demanding that the hot cross bun be de-Islamed: have you actually read the Bible? You may be surprised to find there is actually no mention of holy egg or buns.

Do a bit of Googling and make peace with the fact that the early church Christianised a bunch of pagan traditions to make the faith more palatable. But the relevance of those hangovers to our present practice of Christianity, which should be rooted in the Bible, is next to nought.

In fact, the New Testament is quite clear about what our attitude towards "holy" food should be. It doesn't exist. As the apostle Paul put it in Romans 14:16-18: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Then there's the bit about what comes out of your mouth being far more important that what goes in.

Instead of the "peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" that we're called to display you've shown yourself to by legalistic, petty and completely missing the point of our faith.

Christianity: 0, Paganism: 1.


The Atheist: Chris Roper

Christians are right to be outraged and fearful at the attempt by Muslims and the Taliban-controlled Woolworths to hijack their hot cross buns.

When followers of the Goddess Eostre, in Saxon England, first noticed that their traditional buns with the four quarters of the moon cut into them were being sold in Ye Olde Woolyworthes with a cross on, they didn’t complain.

No, the idiots were all tolerant and accommodating (or "Christian", as it used to be called). And see what happened to them! Not exactly religious flavour of the century now, are they.


No, this is obviously an attempt by fundamentalist dough-loving Muslims to put yet another crack in the solid edifice of Christianity, all with an eye to eventual religious domination.

Of course, as one of the Children of the ****ed, I’m compelled to ask -- why the hell (sic) do I have to have Christian titbits sold in my secular supermarket anyway?

Do I really want to munch down on an earthly reminder that millions of my fellow humans are superstitious believers who have time to read the small print on confectionery packaging? Next thing they’ll be stopping us buying wine on Sundays. Oh, wait ...

But the most terrible thing is that -- brace yourself -- Easter bunnies are also halaal now! These cute, holy little beasties, famously described in the Old Testament (Numbers 13: 21-22) as "And Thumper begat Bre'er Rabbit, and Bre’r Rabbit begat Bugs, and Bugs begat Miffy, and Miffy had a lesbian thing with Jessica Rabbit", are also going to be subsumed to the cause of Islamic Imperialism. And these are people who slaughter animals alive in their Satanic halaal rituals! Poor bunnies!

Christians need to fight back. Where's Mel Gibson when you need him.



The Jew: Toby Shapshak

Nice. Everyone gets to argue about hot cross buns which we can't eat because it's Pesach. Typical. While everyone gets to nosh on pastries and Easter eggs, we have to eat unleavened bread which gives you constipation. This is what it means to be Jewish really. Yiddish has lots of words of sorrow and idiots. Happiness and joy not so much.


Other religions

If you feel your religion hasn't been represented here on the crucial hot cross bun question, please mail us. Hindu, Buddhist, Used Car Salesman, Scientologist: Be the Bun!

http://mg.co.za/article/2012-03-30-its-a-bunfight-of-the-highest-disorder/​

 

[Sunnie Ameena]

The only thing I can think of to say is WOW really? They (Christians) are worried about a stamp on a package, how ignorant. They should be looking at it the same as Muslims (it is ok to eat), but no, they have to act so totally opposite of what they preach. Their bible says I shall not judge, but in every thing they do, they judge. They judge every religion, and all sorts of people, and now some packaging on food. My goodness, what next. They should worry about helping others and feeding others, and not complain about something they are fixing to shove in their mouths. Oh, I forgot, they also preach not to worship any graven image, and it seems to me, that they are on the verge of worshipping the poor hot cross bun. Just my thoughts.

 

[Sunnie Ameena]

I just want to add to my post above, I am not talking about all Christians, just the ones that do things like this.