Would like to understand you people..

[Woodrow]

This is ridiculous.

How you can compare Coca-Cola to Islam, blabbing company secrets to changing your personal religious beliefs, and being sued or going to jail for a few years to being killed?

(In the case of MI5 spy David Shayler revealing security secrets the maximum sentence he could have gotten was six years, and this is for revealing government secrets, not Coca Cola's!)

People don't understand the reason behind the punishment? Well I think it is laid out quite clearly here:

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17​

It takes a leap of imagination to call that treason and an even bigger leap of faith to take that as God's will.

Please be aware. That states the maximum punishment. Apostasy does not carry a Hadd (Mandatory) punishment. Death for Apostasy is not mandatory punishment and has seldom if ever been applied by a legal court in any Islamic country in modern times (1800s-now)

 

[جوري]

To Eliphaz..

the punishment for high treason in the U.S is Death!

please see: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/FTrials/rosenb/ROSENB.HTM

I don't know what the coca cola analogy is all about?.. The prophet (p) has given reprieve to several apostates (browse this forum for more details) since the topic has been discussed perhaps a hundred times over.

interestingly the punishment for apostasy in Judaism is also death!

all the best!

 

[KAding]

America was founded on the same principle the only difference is everyone is trying to be so politically correct now. The problem with america is we took away religion from state. as soon as we took morals away from schools and government is when america started to go down the tubes...

It was? God doesn't get mentioned at all in the US constitution. Religion only gets mentioned in that it is illegal for the US government to formally recognize any religion. Apostacy was never illegal in the US either as far as I know. Removal of religion from government and law (though not politics of course) was quite explicit. So the founding principle was clearly very much different from the Islamic one.

remember columbine?????

^o) What about it?

 

[Asiyah3]

Peace, Thomas

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but I truly hope you will stay on this forum for a longer time I feel you will learn alot and get new kind-of views.

I am also very glad you came here and told us about your issues and thoughts

We would love it if you'd stay here and you're welcome to the family

 

[GuestFellow]

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/4738-islam-apostasy.html

I don't think the non-Muslim members have actually bothered reading that.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I don't think the non-Muslim members have actually bothered reading that.

I've read it. And my concern is that it appears that in a number of places in the world that Muslims have not read it, for we hear more and more stories of incidents where people seek to enforce the law of apostasy with execution for those who are not treasoness toward the state, but only have reject Islam in favor of another belief that they genuinely find to be superior. If, according to the article cited, the law against apostasy is not meant to be applied in those circumstances, then why is it being applied and why are even government officials becoming complicit in such applications?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

....we hear more and more stories of incidents where people seek to enforce the law of apostasy with execution for those who are not treasoness toward the state, but only have reject Islam

In my country ( Bangladesh ) , I have read this news many times that hundreds Muslims convert to Christianity each yr because missiionaries offer them free medical service , free education to kids , job and money . So far , have not heard that any single ex-Muslim was killed .

When i read revert to Islam stories , I found that many new Muslims faced hostile reactions from non-Muslim families and neighbourhood. A Christian Missionary became Muslim , married a nun and she also became Muslim faced bomb attack ; their kid died. On TV interviews , I heard how some hindus faced problem when they wanted to accept Islam but But never saw any media coverage about the life threats new Muslims get from families..

I guess , as world media is normally anti - Islam , they pick up only those stories where Muslim react violently ; but when the same incident take place by non-Muslims , media don't cover that .

 

[KAding]

I guess , as world media is normally anti - Islam , they pick up only those stories where Muslim react violently ; but when the same incident take place by non-Muslims , media don't cover that .

In many Muslim countries it is illegal to apostatize or proselytize. That simply isn't true in non-Muslim countries regarding their own dominant religions. Of course conversions often cause social tensions, but that is something different from official criminalization and judicial punishment.

I think you'll have a hard time framing the Muslims as victims here. Fact of the matter is that most Muslims would never accept it if other countries would implement laws regarding apostasy and preaching similar to those in the Muslim world. Some here have, indeed, gone as far as saying it is a valid cause for jihad!

 

[KAding]

I don't think the non-Muslim members have actually bothered reading that.

There is apparently no consensus about this among Muslims. That is not the fault of non-Muslims.

 

[GuestFellow]

If, according to the article cited, the law against apostasy is not meant to be applied in those circumstances, then why is it being applied and why are even government officials becoming complicit in such applications?

There is no country in the world that adopts the full Islamic Law. Learn to distinguish between Islamic principles and those who put it into practice incorrectly.

 

[GuestFellow]

There is apparently no consensus about this among Muslims. That is not the fault of non-Muslims.

I never said who fault it was, I said whether the non-Muslim members who contributed towards this topic have read that article posted by Uthman, I thought some non-Muslim members didn't.

 

[Grace Seeker]

There is no country in the world that adopts the full Islamic Law. Learn to distinguish between Islamic principles and those who put it into practice incorrectly.

No. Just as Christians bear witness to the Christian faith by the ethic of their lives, so do Muslims bear witness to the nature of the Islamic faith. I understand that not all people bear credible witness in either group. But, when government officials become complicit in the actions that you would say are not the proper practice of Islam and yet claim to be doing them as an expression of Islamic principles put into practice, what is a non-Muslim to do, except realize that he is at the mercy of an Islam that refuses to police itself and that what you have termed to be Islam practiced incorrectly has become normative within the Ummah.

If your typical Muslim spends more time protesting the non-Islamic behavior of non-Muslims than the non-Islamic behavior of those who profess to be practicing Islam, then what does that say about the undervaluing of Islamic principles by Muslims themselves? The external Jihad has replaced the internal Jihad in terms of relative significance in Islamic life and nothing could be more contradictory to true Islam than that.

 

[Pygoscelis]

There is no country in the world that adopts the full Islamic Law. Learn to distinguish between Islamic principles and those who put it into practice incorrectly.

Perhaps that is for the same reason that there is no country that adopts complete communism. Perhaps human nature makes it impossible. Power corrupts. The USSR was never communist. It just purported to be. Would you say that is the same situation with Saudi Arabia and Islam?

 

[GuestFellow]

Perhaps that is for the same reason that there is no country that adopts complete communism. Perhaps human nature makes it impossible. Power corrupts. The USSR was never communist. It just purported to be. Would you say that is the same situation with Saudi Arabia and Islam?

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy. They have not implemented the full criminal jurisdiction of the Sharia nor have they have implemented economic and social principles based upon the sharia.

Oh the full Sharia has been implemented in the past. So it is still possible today to implement all of the Sharia.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

In many Muslim countries it is illegal to apostatize or proselytize.

To be a Muslim/ to remain as a Muslim , one needs to believe that there is no god but God and Muhammed pbuh is the messenger of God.

if one does not believe in these 2 testifications , it's useless not to let him/her accept other faith openly because s/he is not a Muslim anymore. So , if any Muslim majority country really has this law that forbids Muslims to accept other faith , it should be changed.

I think you'll have a hard time framing the Muslims as victims here.

What I meant is media only report when any ex - Muslim faces difficulties ; media remain silent when new Muslims face life threats .

 

[Grace Seeker]

What I meant is media only report when any ex - Muslim faces difficulties ; media remain silent when new Muslims face life threats .

I think that varies widely. And my guess is that we also have different levels of awareness depending on whose ox is getting gored.


My own thought is that people should be free to personally evangelize for any religion, and that governments should never support the cause of any given religion, pro or con, vis-a-vis another religion. But that all religions, should their adherents desire to give expression to their beliefs, be given a chance to have equal opportunity to express their voice(s) in the marketplace of ideas.

 

[GuestFellow]

I think that varies widely. And my guess is that we also have different levels of awareness depending on whose ox is getting gored.

When Muslims leave Islam, they get rewarded by the mass media. Most of these ex-Muslims have became very active after the event of 9/11 and gained mass publicity. Some received rewards for being brave. When a non-Muslim converts to Islam, the media could care less.

There has been a rise in hatred towards Muslims after 9/11, there has even been a video game of killing Muslims, I have not see the media report that.

People have nearly the same awareness when it comes down to Islam and terrorism. When it comes down to Islamophobia and hatred acts towards Muslims, the media either does not report it or when it does report it some how the topic gets diverted to criticism of Islam.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I still think it goes both ways, and the way we perceive the truth of these events is not just rooted in the events themselves but our own internal way of looking at the world and therefore what catches our attention as well.

 

[GuestFellow]

I still think it goes both ways and the way we perceive the truth of these events is not just rooted in the events themselves but our own internal way of looking at the world and therefore what catches our attention as well.

It depends on how much exposure we have too. I can confidently say the mainstream media has done a good job of spreading the message about terrorism but when it comes down to Islamophobia, very rarely reports such incidents than compared to terrorism.

 

[Uthman]

:salamext:

I can confidently say the mainstream media has done a good job of spreading the message about terrorism but when it comes down to Islamophobia, very rarely reports such incidents than compared to terrorism.

You mean like this and this?