Would you test someone if you already knew the results?

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Greetings,
Abd'Majid said:

Wanted to ask if this question is the main reasoning behind u being an aethist? Why go through the test if God Allmighty knows all?
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Interesting question, but the answer's no. I think the main reason I'm an atheist is that I think it's massively more likely that god is a fiction invented by humans than that he actually exists.

Peace
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,


Interesting question, but the answer's no. I think the main reason I'm an atheist is that I think it's massively more likely that god is a fiction invented by humans than that he actually exists.

Peace
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:peace:

learn arabic then read the quran and see if man can invent such a thing, no really i kno it takes a lot of time but gibson, man, if ur genuinely interested i urge you to do this one thing. If you still dont believe that God exists then i am at a loss :)

:peace:
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Greetings,
Abd'Majid said:

learn arabic then read the quran and see if man can invent such a thing, no really i kno it takes a lot of time but gibson, man, if ur genuinely interested i urge you to do this one thing. If you still dont believe that God exists then i am at a loss :)​
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I tried reading the Qur'an in English with a view to learning Arabic and reading it in the original if I was touched by it, but unfortunately this didn't happen. I've read a huge amount of literature from all over the world, but I couldn't even finish the Qur'an.

I saw nothing in it that remotely persuaded me that it was anything other than the work of human hands.

Peace
 
^


:peace:

I am indeed saddenned to hear that but know that the translation is nothing close to the actual arabic script itself, it gives a vaaague vaaaague idea of the quran, this is the reason i am trying to learn arabic myself, so i can get that feel which Allah swt inspires :)

:peace:
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Abd'Majid said:
^


:peace:

I am indeed saddenned to hear that but know that the translation is nothing close to the actual arabic script itself, it gives a vaaague vaaaague idea of the quran, this is the reason i am trying to learn arabic myself, so i can get that feel which Allah swt inspires :)

:peace:
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this is so true

i understand some Arabic, but not all.
but if i hear somebody read a translation, i feel practically nothing
but when i hear a real Arabic recitation, i feel very emotional. the meaning is completely clearer when recited in Arabic.
 
nurofislam said:
this is so true

i understand some Arabic, but not all.
but if i hear somebody read a translation, i feel practically nothing
but when i hear a real Arabic recitation, i feel very emotional. the meaning is completely clearer when recited in Arabic.
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:sl:

JazakAllah khair that helps a lot!!! :)

:w:
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I'm an atheist is that I think it's massively more likely that god is a fiction invented by humans than that he actually exists.
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I saw nothing in it that remotely persuaded me that it was anything other than the work of human hands.
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Oh. My. Allah :-\
 
salam.
Test?
Every day is a test, weather we like it or not. we don't know what will happen,only ALLAH. tests are their too remind us.
Remind us of the importnt things.
 
Abd'Majid said:

:sl:

lol he sed translation, Allah sent down the arabic quran not a human dun translation!! :p

:w:
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I meant i was shocked at the extent he doesnt believe that there is a God.

Ok then I'll say Oh. My. God. :rollseyes
 
HeiGou, when you say you go back into that equation pretty far, I would like to color the picture in a little more so that we are for sure on the same page.

God knew that if creation was given freedom to act and chose (Free-will), then at some point some created thing would chose to act out side of God’s preferred choice.

Even we humans can foresee that same result if we had undertaken the same task. Most certainly God foresaw it. Therefore I think it is a perfectly reasonable statement to say, that even before any part of creation was created, God foreknew/foresaw that at least part of creation would rebel. Scripture also supports this stance.

Now to stretch that stance to say God created beings, A and B and C, to fail is not biblically supported. Nor would I agree that the stance would be at least biblically implied.

There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Satan was created in such a way as to result in his being more likely to fail.

I will be so bold as to make this statement:

There is nothing in the Bible, to say or suggest that God foreknew exactly what part of creation would fail. (I am sure that will get jumped on by some, but they will have to offer biblical proof in their rebuttals.)

Therefore the bottom line is:
I am not so sure I agree with “no difference between God's decision and God's knowing” unless I know just how far back in the equation you are going.

As to the second part of the post and your reply:

Let’s simplify things just a bit, let’s say that for the sake of argument, the machine doesn’t actually move at all, all it does is to think and form opinions and judgments.

Let’s say that a fellow is paralyzed from birth. The person can speak and move the head about a bit, but that is about it.

About the only real action this person is capable of is “Thought” and commutating those thoughts.

Can that person be judged as to quality of character? I dare say Yes.

The child that will lie given a certain question is, by default, a liar.
Now the particular question may have never came up, so the child never lied in response to the question.

The true nature of the child is exactly the same either way.

I hope now you see why I made my first post on this thread as I did.

To address you point about the green signs and the red signs:

No mater how many green or red signs you encounter, you still have freedom of thought.

Freedom of thought equals freedom of choice.

Now I agree that the events a person encounters (The red or green signs) will most certainly have an effect on what thoughts or beliefs a person holds, but I don’t agree that the true nature of a person is purely a product of those events.

I say that a person never gives up freedom of thought, no mater which green or red lights they may encounter throughout this lifetime.

I will leave it at that, till you have a chance to respond.

I haven’t responded to your last point because I would rather wait till after your response to this post.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
nimrod said:
God knew that if creation was given freedom to act and chose (Free-will), then at some point some created thing would chose to act out side of God’s preferred choice.
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Surely He knew that if He created a world where He controlled each and every input, any freedom to act and choose would be purely illusionary? God knows what decision I make, and why, before I make it. God has brought me here for His own reasons. He has a plan. How can I change that?

Even we humans can foresee that same result if we had undertaken the same task. Most certainly God foresaw it. Therefore I think it is a perfectly reasonable statement to say, that even before any part of creation was created, God foreknew/foresaw that at least part of creation would rebel. Scripture also supports this stance.
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Why is that reasonable? To God, all creatures must appear so simple as to be mechanical toys. We do not have complex thought processes in comparison with God. He knows what we are going to do before we do it. It is not as if there is a cookie jar and some children in the other room. It is that God knows little Johnny is weak minded and greedy because he was raised that way and at 3 pm next Thursday Johnny will reach down the cookie jar withotu asking and take the lid off. Now, how much free will does Johnny really have here given we know he is weak and greedy?

Now to stretch that stance to say God created beings, A and B and C, to fail is not biblically supported. Nor would I agree that the stance would be at least biblically implied.
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Although some Christians would disagree with you. However God would know even before He created Creatures A, B and C that A and B would fall by the wayside because of the trials and tests God created and the nature of their personalities which He chose, while C would not.

There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Satan was created in such a way as to result in his being more likely to fail.
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And yet God knew that he would. Having made him the way he was and placed him in the situation he was placed in.

I will be so bold as to make this statement:

There is nothing in the Bible, to say or suggest that God foreknew exactly what part of creation would fail. (I am sure that will get jumped on by some, but they will have to offer biblical proof in their rebuttals.)
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But God knows all so the only way that He could not know is if He denied Himself that knowledge and I do not see how that works.

To address you point about the green signs and the red signs:

No mater how many green or red signs you encounter, you still have freedom of thought.

Freedom of thought equals freedom of choice.
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Well no. I often feel a strong complusion to do things even though I do not know why or even when I know I should not. I am very good at rationalising after the event too. However if God knows I always turn one way at a Green sign, then the issue is irrelevant. I can think about why I turn left, but if I always turn left, I always turn left. This is simplified a little to one input. Presumably my decision making process has hundreds of inputs, but God knows them all and knows what the result will be if I am faced with a given set of inputs.
 
Salam Alaikum

The best I can explain is as follows:

Time is a creation of Allah

Thus for God time is not a factor which prevents him in any aspect.

That is how God can see at the beginning of time and the end of time and knows everything that will happen.

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We however live inside the domain of time - thus we are restricted by this.

We dont know what will happen next and we cannot jump ahead in time either.

Thus we have to live our lives out painstakingly one day at a time.

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Now putting it together:

God gave us a free will and restricted us with "time" so our lives move slowly.

we have to live it out and what decisions we make are entirely our own.

This is OUR reality.

For God he already knows what we are going to do because he is outside the domain of time and sees all and hears all.

The trials in this life are a part of creation - we will be given good and bad opportunities, however how we act on those is OUR OWN decision.

Does God know of our decisions before hand?

Yes God knows because he has seen it already.

Will God then intervene?

No God will not intervene because these are decisions WE have made using our free wills. So the accountability is OURS and does not fall upon God.

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I know my little explanation above may not be the best but I hope it will help shed some light into the matter insha'Allah
 
nimrod said:
J4763;

#1. If you had a certain child that you knew would lie when asked a certain question, would you allow that that question to be raised?

#2. Would you punish the child for being a liar?

Thanks
Nimrod
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Peace Nimrod:

I am really late responding to this as I was just reading the thread but I thought it was an interesting question.

For me, yes, I would still ask the question and give them the opportunity to not lie. I've always told my son, "If you do something wrong, ok, we can talk about it and I might get upset or you might get punished, BUT, if you lie to me about it I will be MORE angry and the punishment would be longer." I also explained to him that the more lies he tells the less people will trust him, so that in time they won't believe a word he says.

So, yup, I would definitely ask the question, and if he lied, he would be punished twice....once for the initial problem and once for lying. If he told me the truth, I would tell him how much I appreciate his honesty, do my best to not show anger (depending on the circumstances), and probably reduce his punishment for accepting responsibility and choosing to tell the truth even though he might have been afraid of the consequences.

As in faith, Allah, swt, has told us right from wrong....we have that information already so if we choose to do the wrong, we will be held accountable. If we do wrong and we turn to Allah, swt, admitting our wrong and sincerely ask for forigiveness the chances are very great we will be forgiven. We will all make mistakes, that's a given, but how we handle them and learn from them is what matters.

Peace,
Hana
 
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j4763 said:
One thing that confuses me about Allah/God is the whole “life’s a test” thing.
If something bad happens (war/natural disasters…etc) many Muslims say that is a test from God. What’s the point if he already knows our future, from the moment where born God must know whether were going to become a Muslim or not. So why not skip the whole “life test” and place us in heaven or hell, once were conceived?

Why does Allah test us if he already knows whether we pass or fail?
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The life test is for you so you can learn from your mistakes and correct them. you have to work to get to jenna it is not free.
 
mashallah i have just read this thread and there are so many beleiving brothers and sisters the replies were wonderful
 
welll . god dont force u to choose wat path u wanna go. but he knows wat u will choose ,,, salam peace
 
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