I know its not Sharia government. I know that Mccain and Obama are not exactly pro Muslim. I know that Mccain is more ant- Islam. WHy shouldnt I vote to prevent someone worse from coming into office?
What if an election was down to the wire and Muslims didnt vote, letting some lunatic into the presidency, who starts bigger wars against Muslims?
Are you gonna watch the bombs fall on CNN and say "Sorry my dying brothers and sisters, I could have tried to prevent this, but I dont think we should vote."
What is wrong?? I would like to be able to say I tried to prevent this from happening.
Last edited by AntiKarateKid; 11-05-2008 at 11:19 PM.
Once I saw that some HTs had stuck a sign up over a street sign outside a Mosque, that read, 'Stay Muslim, don't vote!'. Needless to say, we were all pretty miffed that they hijacked our peaceful, Zikr and Naat-orientated gathering with some takfirist rubbish.
Title Participating in US elections
Scholar Dr.Salah Al-Sawy
Date 2008-10-03
Category Varieties
Question Is it permissible for me to participate in the American elections? In other words, can I go and vote for one of the candidates—whether Obama or McCain—even though they are non-Muslims, and they have committed to protecting Israel and fight the Muslims?
Fatwa in arabic
Fatwa In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful,
All praise is due to Allah, and may peace and blessing be upon the Messenger of Allah, upon his household, his companions and followers. To proceed:
Islamic law is based on achieving the greater of two goods and avoiding the greater of two evils, as well as gaining advantages and perfecting them and neutralizing harm and minimizing it. AMJA previously held an entire workshop on the legitimacy of political participation and its effectiveness, and the final recommendations on the matter were that it is a legitimate political issue which centers around a balance between harm and benefit, and therefore fatwas will change according to time, place and condition. On that basis, my dear brother, if one of the candidates would be more advantageous than the other, in general, whether in terms of American society on the whole or the Muslim communities living within the country specifically, then the effort to support him in order to broaden the sphere of benefit and to restrict the scope of corruption and evil would be a matter in conformity with the objectives of Shari`ah in general. However, in order for the Muslims to play an effective role in this battle, they must have a clear, identifiable political agenda. They must agree on an authority to represent them and to negotiate for them lest their voices fragment and their strength depart. Otherwise, their efforts will end in failure and they will become—as they say—a cry in a valley or blowing in ashes! We ask Allah to guide us all to success.
And Allah Almighty is the Most High, and He knows best.
I didn't vote anyway for entirely different reasons...
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I think Muslim participation in the political process of the countries they live in is very important. Especially in the context of battling Islamophobia and suspicion. If Muslims actively isolate themselves from the political process it only does more harm than good.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I know its not Sharia government. I know that Mccain and Obama are not exactly pro Muslim. I know that Mccain is more ant- Islam. WHy shouldnt I vote to prevent someone worse from coming into office?
What if an election was down to the wire and Muslims didnt vote, letting some lunatic into the presidency, who starts bigger wars against Muslims?
Are you gonna watch the bombs fall on CNN and say "Sorry my dying brothers and sisters, I could have tried to prevent this, but I dont think we should vote."
What is wrong?? I would like to be able to say I tried to prevent this from happening.
Voting is ova, but i strongly disagree with voting, cause either ways both governments are going to attack muslims and in time u will see. Its better to not have voted then have blood on ur hands. Dont forget all the dua our helpless brothers and sisters are making against those who support the government thats attacking them!!! Whether its Obama or Mcain its the same crap with a different name.
Voting is ova, but i strongly disagree with voting, cause either ways both governments are going to attack muslims and in time u will see. Its better to not have voted then have blood on ur hands. Dont forget all the dua our helpless brothers and sisters are making against those who support the government thats attacking them!!! Whether its Obama or Mcain its the same crap with a different name.
You pay taxes don't you? That does more to support any military action than a vote does.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Actually i dont live in America,
anyways i do agree that paying taxes is giving more support however u cant tell people to stop working since its mandatory for living but we do have a choice in voting. Trust me if there was a real islamic state most muslim we make hijra there
If you are an American citizen then it is your right to vote...if you choose not to then that’s your choice...but in my opinion if you don't vote then you can't complain about what president we have because you didn't bother to vote anyways...I think it is very important to participate in voting..let your voice be heard every ones vote counts...yes America is not a Muslim based country but you should still make it effort to pick the president you feel would be better...even if you don't like either one...that’s all I have to say...
It would be very disturbing if a whole social group would segregate itself from the rest of society in this way. The whole point of democracy is participation. If a significant social group does not consider the system legitimate and worth supporting we're bound to run into problems at one time or another. Or is that the whole point? Is it some kind of boycott?
Voting is ova, but i strongly disagree with voting, cause either ways both governments are going to attack muslims and in time u will see. Its better to not have voted then have blood on ur hands. Dont forget all the dua our helpless brothers and sisters are making against those who support the government thats attacking them!!! Whether its Obama or Mcain its the same crap with a different name.
Sister u have one big flaw in your reasoning.
You assume both parties are going to be equally agressive towards Muslims.
Would you not want to see the worse party lose? I know I would. If you dont participate and the worse one wins, YOU have blood on your hands.
You assume both parties are going to be equally agressive towards Muslims.
Would you not want to see the worse party lose? I know I would. If you dont participate and the worse one wins, YOU have blood on your hands.
I agree,
You can't always assume that both parties are going to attack Muslims...people are becoming more interested in Islam everyday I think more people are educated about Islam then some of us think...not everyone is out to get Muslims...and we shouldn't have to separate ourselves from the rest of the world simply because of religion, race, or whatever...we are all humans we should all learn to respect each other...
Voting is another way of saying YES to democracy and NO to Shariah. The bloody democracy that is being forced down our Muslim brother’s and sister’s throats, the bloody democracy that has killed millions of Muslims across the world and oppressed another million and so Muslims, the democracy that has created torture dungeons around the world, the bloody democracy that continues to support the Israel Zionist Government, the same bloody democracy that is against Shariah, so why should I be for democracy?
Sorry but I didn’t bother to vote, and it really doesn’t matter to me who the “president” of America is. Their foreign Policy never changes; it didn’t change in the past 200 years. They attacked one country after another, toppled governments and replace them with dictatorships, stolen resources, and forcefully establish democracy on poor countries and dropped two A-bombs on Japan.
America is a two party government. It is a donkey and its two ears. They have the same agenda, but at the end of the day they just have different ways of approaching that agenda.
70:28 Lo! the doom of their Lord is that before which none can feel secure
Voting is another way of saying YES to democracy and NO to Shariah. The bloody democracy that is being forced down our Muslim brother’s and sister’s throats, the bloody democracy that has killed millions of Muslims across the world and oppressed another million and so Muslims, the democracy that has created torture dungeons around the world, the bloody democracy that continues to support the Israel Zionist Government, the same bloody democracy that is against Shariah, so why should I be for democracy?
Sorry but I didn’t bother to vote, and it really doesn’t matter to me who the “president” of America is. Their foreign Policy never changes; it didn’t change in the past 200 years. They attacked one country after another, toppled governments and replace them with dictatorships, stolen resources, and forcefully establish democracy on poor countries and dropped two A-bombs on Japan.
America is a two party government. It is a donkey and its two ears. They have the same agenda, but at the end of the day they just have different ways of approaching that agenda.
Sorry but I am getting frustrated by such responses.
You did not answer my question at all. Belive it or not, some people are WORSE than other people. Obama>Mccain.
What your post boils down to is just :
DEMOCRACY BAD SHARIA GOOD ALL AMERICA HATES US
WHile I prefer sharia, the fact is that I live in a country which runs a democracy. And IF I can choose a person who is LESS anti Islamic, I will do so. You can sit back and watch criminals come to power if you wish, but Im doing something about it.
Sorry but I am getting frustrated by such responses.
You did not answer my question at all. Belive it or not, some people are WORSE than other people. Obama>Mccain.
What your post boils down to is just :
DEMOCRACY BAD SHARIA GOOD ALL AMERICA HATES US
WHile I prefer sharia, the fact is that I live in a country which runs a democracy. And IF I can choose a person who is LESS anti Islamic, I will do so. You can sit back and watch criminals come to power if you wish, but Im doing something about it.
I also agree, I think almost all Muslims would prefer sharia law, but in some circumstances it just isn't possible. I agree you can either stand up and try to make the country you live in better or sit back and do nothing.
Voting is another way of saying YES to democracy and NO to Shariah.
Many scholars of our times allow Muslims to vote in order to get the best candidate or the least harmful one, scholars such as Ibn Baaz, Salman b. Awdah, ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Sa’di, ‘Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghuddah, Afifi, al-Ghudyaan, al-Albani, Abdullah b. Yusuf Azzam, Muhammad as-Subayl, the scholars of Jamiat ahl al-Hadeeth in Pakistan, the Ikhwan and Jamaat al-Islaami in Pakistan and many other jurists.
Are all these scholars saying yes to Democracy and no to Shariah simply because they allowed voting (and in certain specific circumstances taking seats and participating in Parliaments as well)? I don't think so.
I don't intend to get into a long discussion here - so my intention is to show you that as long as we live under it, we can use it to rectify our situation. There is a difference between voting with a secular intention (because you believe it's better than Islam) and voting with an Islamic intention (voting to choose a candidate that will be relatively better for the people, the society and the Muslims). The rulings on both differ greatly. At the end of the day, this is as Shaykh Salman said, a matter of Ijithad. And really, if you don't vote, then you have no reason to complain if something you don't like happens.
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
I am sorry that such responses frustrate you, but they are the opinions of others. You are using your limited understanding and knowledge about McCain and Obama to determine which one is more evil. I personally don’t know which one is more evil. All you are doing is assuming and the rest is history. America’s foreign policy is based on interest, American interest. They have attacked and crippled the South American nations, they have done the same with East Asian countries, as well as European nations, and now it is the Middle East and Muslim countries. It is a power course of action
Truman was a democrat, and we all know what he did. Like I said before it is a donkey and its two ears. Obama is the same man who said "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee policy conference. Everyone knows that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel!
For all we know Obama might be a criminal. I see no reason as to why you have to concern yourself with Muslims who exercised their right not to vote.
If you voted good for you. Let's see if America will change its foreign policy for you.
70:28 Lo! the doom of their Lord is that before which none can feel secure
I am sorry that such responses frustrate you, but they are the opinions of others. You are using your limited understanding and knowledge about McCain and Obama to determine which one is more evil. I personally don’t know which one is more evil. All you are doing is assuming and the rest is history. America’s foreign policy is based on interest, American interest. They have attacked and crippled the South American nations, they have done the same with East Asian countries, as well as European nations, and now it is the Middle East and Muslim countries. It is a power course of action
Truman was a democrat, and we all know what he did. Like I said before it is a donkey and its two ears. Obama is the same man who said "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee policy conference. Everyone knows that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel!
For all we know Obama might be a criminal. I see no reason as to why you have to concern yourself with Muslims who exercised their right not to vote.
If you voted good for you. Let's see if America will change its foreign policy for you.
Tell me now that I cant at least make an educated guess at whos more evil!
Not to mention the Mccain arab-familyman blunder.
Mcain is blatantly more anti Islamic. To deny that is dangerous for us Muslims and through voting, we stopped him.
It seems like you wont vote until you see a complete 180 degree change in America. I'm sorry to say that that isnt happening. What is happening is nudging it in a direction that is less dangerous to us Muslims. Are you against that? Are you against choosing the lesser of two evils if it could help the Ummah?
Last edited by AntiKarateKid; 11-07-2008 at 04:07 AM.
Voting is another way of saying YES to democracy and NO to Shariah. The bloody democracy that is being forced down our Muslim brother’s and sister’s throats, the bloody democracy that has killed millions of Muslims across the world and oppressed another million and so Muslims, the democracy that has created torture dungeons around the world, the bloody democracy that continues to support the Israel Zionist Government, the same bloody democracy that is against Shariah, so why should I be for democracy?
Sorry but I didn’t bother to vote, and it really doesn’t matter to me who the “president” of America is. Their foreign Policy never changes; it didn’t change in the past 200 years. They attacked one country after another, toppled governments and replace them with dictatorships, stolen resources, and forcefully establish democracy on poor countries and dropped two A-bombs on Japan.
America is a two party government. It is a donkey and its two ears. They have the same agenda, but at the end of the day they just have different ways of approaching that agenda.
Brother Abu Sayyad I am not saying voting is halaal or haram, but in a country like America both candidates are potentially harmful to Muslims and non- Muslims. The Muslims who voted for Bush weren’t aware of how evil Bush was, and I don’t blame them today. We can’t just say I think Obama is less evil and McCain is more evil. No one knows what each candidate will do once they come to power. There isn’t a single Democratic president that allows or advocates for Shariah Law, matter a fact they degrade Shariah Law whenever they get the chance to do so. And I will not go out and vote simply because our scholars today allow Muslims to do so.
When you vote in a democratic system you are illustrating how supportive you are of democracy – a man made system and philosophy that has waged war on Islam and Shariah law. They are going around bombarding millions of Muslims and people so they could uproot any political ideology that is not in line with democracy, and that includes the Shariah law. Forget about waging war on Muslims, democracy is hostile to any lawmaking system that is grounded on Islam –Shariah Law. Shariah law to the West is equivalent to terrorists and terrorism. The Shariah law is being demeaned, demonized, and appeared to be Barbaric in nature, a dogma from the dark ages, something that needs to be annihilated. First it was Communist against Capitalism, today it is Shariah law against Capitalism. And I personally don’t want to be an active member of a system that propagates the belief that it is superior to the law of God and wages war on it.
I haven’t complained about anything so far, but if something I don’t like happens I have every right to voice my opinion, especially if it is against Muslims. Should the people who voted for Bush remain silence about the illegal wars the Bush Administration has waged? I don’t think so.
My voice will not be heard by merely checking a small square box. At least a billion people around the world protested against the Iraq War, a voice that was more powerful than checking a small square box and frankly that didn’t change America’s foreign policy. As an individual my rights aren’t man made, they are God given. And I have the right to exercise my rights whenever I want to and how I want it…
70:28 Lo! the doom of their Lord is that before which none can feel secure
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Re: As a Muslim, why shouldnt I vote?
Once I saw that some HTs had stuck a sign up over a street sign outside a Mosque, that read, 'Stay Muslim, don't vote!'. Needless to say, we were all pretty miffed that they hijacked our peaceful, Zikr and Naat-orientated gathering with some takfirist rubbish.
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