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Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Post Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Looks like there will be the touted change and hope:
    WASHINGTON – President-elect Obama's advisers are crafting plans to close the Guantanamo Bay prison and prosecute terrorism suspects in the U.S., a plan that the Bush administration said Monday was easier said than done.
    Under the plan being crafted inside Obama's camp, some detainees would be released and others would be charged in U.S. courts, where they would receive constitutional rights and open trials. But, underscoring the difficult decisions Obama must make to fulfill his pledge of shutting down Guantanamo, the plan could require the creation of a new legal system to handle the classified information inherent in some of the most sensitive cases.
    Many of the about 250 Guantanamo detainees are cleared for release, but the Bush administration has not been to find a country willing to take them.
    Advisers participating directly in the planning spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans aren't final.
    The plan being developed by Obama's team has been championed by legal scholars from both political parties. But as details surfaced Monday, it drew criticism from Democrats who oppose creating a new legal system and from Republicans who oppose bringing terrorism suspects to the U.S. mainland.
    The move would mark a sharp change from the Bush administration, which established military tribunals to prosecute detainees at the Navy base in Cuba and strongly opposes bringing prisoners to the United States. At the White House, spokeswoman Dana Perino said Monday that President Bush has faced many challenges in trying to close the prison.
    "We've tried very hard to explain to people how complicated it is. When you pick up people off the battlefield that have a terrorist background, it's not just so easy to let them go," Perino said. "These issues are complicated, and we have put forward a process that we think would work in order to put them on trial through military tribunals."
    But Obama has been critical of that process and his legal advisers said finding an alternative will be a top priority. One of those advisers, Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe, acknowledges that bringing detainees to the U.S. would be controversial but said it could be accomplished.
    "I think the answer is going to be, they can be as securely guarded on U.S. soil as anywhere else," Tribe said. "We can't put people in a dungeon forever without processing whether they deserve to be there."
    The tougher challenge will be allaying fears by Democrats who believe the Bush administration's military commissions were a farce and dislike the idea of giving detainees anything less than the full constitutional rights normally enjoyed by everyone on U.S. soil.
    "I think that creating a new alternative court system in response to the abject failure of Guantanamo would be a profound mistake," Jonathan Hafetz, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney who represents detainees, said Monday. "We do not need a new court system. The last eight years are a testament to the problems of trying to create new systems."
    Senate Judiciary Committee member John Cornyn, R-Texas, said it would be a "colossal mistake to treat terrorism as a mere crime."
    "It would be a stunning disappointment if the one of the new administration's first priorities is to give foreign terror suspects captured on the battlefield the same legal rights and protections as American citizens accused of crimes," Cornyn said Monday, noting that the Senate overwhelmingly passed a nonbinding Senate bill last year opposing bringing detainees to the U.S.
    Obama did not vote on that measure. He has said the civilian and military court-martial systems provide "a framework for dealing with the terrorists," and Tribe said the administration would look to those venues before creating a new legal system. But discussions of what a new system would look like have already started.
    An Obama administration will want to avoid the criticisms that have marked the Bush administration's military commissions. Human rights groups and defense attorneys have condemned the commissions for lax evidence rules and intense secrecy. Some military prosecutors have even quit in protest.
    "It would have to be some sort of hybrid that involves military commissions that actually administer justice rather than just serve as kangaroo courts," Tribe said. "It will have to both be and appear to be fundamentally fair in light of the circumstances. I think people are going to give an Obama administration the benefit of the doubt in that regard."
    Some weren't so sure.

    "There would be concern about establishing a completely new system," said Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a member of the House Judiciary Committee and former federal prosecutor who is aware of the discussions in the Obama camp. "And in the sense that establishing a regimen of detention that includes American citizens and foreign nationals that takes place on U.S. soil and departs from the criminal justice system — trying to establish that would be very difficult."
    Though a hybrid court may be unpopular, other advisers and Democrats involved in the Guantanamo Bay discussions say Obama has few options.
    Prosecuting all detainees in federal courts raises many problems. Evidence gathered through military interrogation or from intelligence sources might be thrown out. Defendants would have the right to confront witnesses, meaning undercover CIA officers or terrorist turncoats might have to take the stand, jeopardizing their cover and revealing classified intelligence tactics.
    That means something different would need to be done if detainees couldn't be released or prosecuted in traditional courts. Exactly what remains unclear.
    "I don't think we need to completely reinvent the wheel, but we need a better tribunal process that is more transparent," Schiff said.
    According to three advisers participating in the process, Obama is expected to propose a new court system and may appoint a committee to decide how such a court would operate. Some detainees likely would be returned to the countries where they were first captured for further detention or rehabilitation. The rest could probably be prosecuted in U.S. criminal courts, one adviser said. All spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the ongoing talks, which have been private.
    One challenge will be figuring out what to do with the 90 or so Yemeni detainees — the largest group in the prison. The Bush administration has sought to negotiate the release of some of those detainees as part of a rehabilitation plan with the Yemeni government. But talks have so far been fruitless.
    Waleed Alshahari, who has been following Guantanamo issues for the Yemeni Embassy in Washington, said the plan being discussed by the Obama team was an improvement over the current system. But he said he expects most detainees to be released rather than stand trial.
    "If the U.S. government has any evidence against them, they would try them and put them in jail," Alshahari said. "But it has been obvious they have nothing against them. That is why they have not faced trial."
    Whatever Obama decides, he should move quickly, Tribe said. "In reality and symbolically, the idea that we have people in legal black holes is an extremely serious black mark," Tribe said. "It has to be dealt with."
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081110/...ama_guantanamo
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    a country willing to take them?

    shouldnt the sadistic sick freaks who imprisoned them provide them shelter now !



    :anger:
    Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Post Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by Mz View Post
    a country willing to take them?

    shouldnt the sadistic sick freaks who imprisoned them provide them shelter now !



    :anger:

    There's probably some kind of immigration law banning such alturism...
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by Mz View Post
    a country willing to take them?

    shouldnt the sadistic sick freaks who imprisoned them provide them shelter now !



    :anger:
    If these are men of such good standing why won't their own country take them back?
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan View Post
    If these are men of such good standing why won't their own country take them back?
    cause fat pigs are in power :anger:


    but if america/britain are the ones who tortured them/robbed their lives thus far SHOULDNT THEY HELP?
    Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    their countries are as hospitable as you!
    Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan View Post
    If these are men of such good standing why won't their own country take them back?
    because they have been damaged beyond rehabilitation.

    who would want a bunch of vengeful individuals loose in their countries? since America now owns Pakistan (thank you deobandi mullahs), most likely they will all be dumped there just before it is ready to be incinerated.
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    Hopefullly AMEEEEEEEEEEN TO THAT!
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison


    Step in the right direction. Now, let's start funding more on cancer research than we do the military and I'll be really pleased. Heck, I may even be convinced that there truly are good people in powerful positions!
    Last edited by aamirsaab; 11-12-2008 at 08:44 AM.
    Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab View Post

    Step in the right direction. Now, let's start funding more on cancer research than we do the military and I'll be really pleased. Heck, I may even be convinced that there truly are good people in powerful positions!
    I've always thought a good idea would be an international super-fund for cancer research. Develop a state-of-the-art facility that is funded by the world and where all the best doctors and scientists come together to find a cure. But that is neither here nor there, or the topic.
    Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    It's always interesting how different perceptions are on Gitmo. In the US many seem to think it is full with blood-thirsty terrorist who would slit your throat if they got the chance and according to the Muslim world everyone in Gitmo is an innocent goat-herder who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    It's always interesting how different perceptions are on Gitmo. In the US many seem to think it is full with blood-thirsty terrorist who would slit your throat if they got the chance and according to the Muslim world everyone in Gitmo is an innocent goat-herder who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!
    Probably the truth lays somewhere between.
    Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    It's always interesting how different perceptions are on Gitmo. In the US many seem to think it is full with blood-thirsty terrorist who would slit your throat if they got the chance and according to the Muslim world everyone in Gitmo is an innocent goat-herder who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!
    Well, the third possibility is that it is full of homicidal goats.
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    It's always interesting how different perceptions are on Gitmo. In the US many seem to think it is full with blood-thirsty terrorist who would slit your throat if they got the chance and according to the Muslim world everyone in Gitmo is an innocent goat-herder who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!
    When it comes to justice, there really isn't much room for emotionality.. a person's guilt or innocence isn't contingent upon what you think of them... I believe that is why they invented the 'judicial system'?

    When you imprison folks for five to seven yrs on suspicion alone, you've ruined their lives -- they will always carry the label of suspected terrorist who was imprisoned in a place like gitmo -- good luck resuming life after release (if at all), in terms of finding a job, getting married, or even supporting your family, not to mention the permanent emotional scarring for having gone through such a harrowing ordeal ---

    would love to gather up a few people, ann coulter, amanopour amongst other media w hores and hold them for twenty days alone only in a place like gitmo subject them to torture without trial but on suspicion of hate alone and see how they like it!


    why do we think 'em innocent goat herders? simple.. there is such a thing of 'innocent until proven guilty' if they have committed a crime, why not charge them with it and let them stand trial?
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan View Post
    If these are men of such good standing why won't their own country take them back?

    if they are hard core terrorists why does the Bush administration have them taged to be released?
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    Re: Obama wants to close Gitmo prison

    format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine View Post
    When it comes to justice, there really isn't much room for emotionality.. a person's guilt or innocence isn't contingent upon what you think of them... I believe that is why they invented the 'judicial system'?

    When you imprison folks for five to seven yrs on suspicion alone, you've ruined their lives -- they will always carry the label of suspected terrorist who was imprisoned in a place like gitmo -- good luck resuming life after release (if at all), in terms of finding a job, getting married, or even supporting your family, not to mention the permanent emotional scarring for having gone through such a harrowing ordeal ---

    would love to gather up a few people, ann coulter, amanopour amongst other media w hores and hold them for twenty days alone only in a place like gitmo subject them to torture without trial but on suspicion of hate alone and see how they like it!


    why do we think 'em innocent goat herders? simple.. there is such a thing of 'innocent until proven guilty' if they have committed a crime, why not charge them with it and let them stand trial?
    Hitchens actually did something like that.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...hitchens200808

    I've noted that none of the other neo-cons who describe water boarding as "dunking them in a bit of water" have opted to actually get "dunked" (odd, it's such a harmless little trick they say, and yet they maintain this little trick, which isin't any sort of ordeal at all, is vital for getting the "hardest of the hard" to talk In fact it's a lighthearted experience that can supposedly break down the very baddest of the bad in only a few seconds, amazing! ). I would love to see Coulter, Hannity, O'Reilly, Savage, etc get waterboarded, let them see how they enjoy it.

    One of them did, actually. A Bush Administration official Daniel Levin. He had the courage to go through the ultimate test to determine if it was torture or not, he said it's torture.

    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/DOJ/story?id=3814076&page=1
    Last edited by wth1257; 11-12-2008 at 08:41 PM.
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