The Muslim population in Britain has grown by more than 500,000 to 2.4 million in just four years, according to official research collated for The Times.
The population multiplied 10 times faster than the rest of society, the research by the Office for National Statistics reveals. In the same period the number of Christians in the country fell by more than 2 million.
Experts said that the increase was attributable to immigration, a higher birthrate and conversions to Islam during the period of 2004-2008, when the data was gathered. They said that it also suggested a growing willingness among believers to describe themselves as Muslims because the western reaction to war and terrorism had strengthened their sense of identity.
Muslim leaders have welcomed the growing population of their communities as academics highlighted the implications for British society, integration and government resources.
David Coleman, Professor of Demography at Oxford University, said: “The implications are very substantial. Some of the Muslim population, by no means all of them, are the least socially and economically integrated of any in the United Kingdom ... and the one most associated with political dissatisfaction. You can't assume that just because the numbers are increasing that all will increase, but it will be one of several reasonable suppositions that might arise.”
Professor Coleman said that Muslims would naturally reap collective benefits from the increase in population. “In the growth of any population ... [its] voice is regarded as being stronger in terms of formulating policy, not least because we live in a democracy where most people in most religious groups and most racial groups have votes. That necessarily means their opinions have to be taken and attention to be paid to them.”
There are more than 42.6 million Christians in Britain, according to the Office for National Statistics, whose figures were obtained through the quarterly Labour Force Survey of around 53,000 homes. But while the biggest Christian population is among over-70s bracket, for Muslims it is the under-4s.
Ceri Peach, Professor of Social Geography at Manchester University, said that the rapid growth of the Muslim population posed challenges for society. “The groups with the strongest belief in the family and cohesion are those such as the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. They have got extremely strong family values but it goes together with the sort of honour society and other kinds of attributes which people object to,” he said. “So you are dealing with a pretty complex situation.”
Professor Peach said that the high number of Muslims under the age of 4 — 301,000 as of September last year — would benefit Britain's future labour market through taxes that would subsequently contribute to sustaining the country's ageing population. He added, though, that it would also put pressure on housing and create a growing demand for schools. “I think housing has traditionally been a difficulty because the country is simultaneously short of labour and short of housing. So if you get people to fill vacancies in your labour force you also need to find places for them to live,” he said.
Muhammad Abdul Bari, general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, predicted that the number of mosques in Britain would multiply from the present 1,600 in line with the rising Islamic population. He said the greater platform that Muslims would command in the future should not be perceived as a threat to the rest of society.
“We each have our own set of beliefs. This should really be a source of celebration rather than fear as long as we all clearly understand that we must abide by the laws of this country regardless of the faith we belong to,” he said.
The Cohesion Minister, Sadiq Khan, told The Times: “We in central Government and local authorities need to continue our work to ensure that our communities are as integrated and cohesive as possible.”
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
There is no large hindu or sikh or jew population, whereas Muslims are at 8% and growing.
and how is that worrying. and say u stopped immigrants coming in from certain countries *i dont know which ones youd do specifically* but english people reverted...how would you stop that?
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
those are the reason I am against additional influx of Muslims. I want Europe remains a secular, liberal, multicultural, pluralistic,demcoratic as it is now. However, certain sacrifices need to be done on part of the very ideals I wish to perserve.
I was also thinking like that for a long time, but lately I changed my mind. Democracy is a good, comfortable system that provides economic welfare. But if we would like to strictly abide the democratic system in nowadays Europe its all lost because they would take over countries in democratic elections. Especially when our liberals and socialists already look for muslim Obamas. I say it with ensurance that if we want to have democracy in Europe through this century we can already dig big hole for our continent.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
and how is that worrying. and say u stopped immigrants coming in from certain countries *i dont know which ones youd do specifically* but english people reverted...how would you stop that?
I wouldn't and there's no need to really, the number converts is small compared to immigrants and new generations of immigrants born in the host country.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
I was also thinking like that for a long time, but lately I changed my mind. Democracy is a good, comfortable system that provides economic welfare. But if we would like to strictly abide the democratic system in nowadays Europe its all lost because they would take over countries in democratic elections. Especially when our liberals and socialists already look for muslim Obamas. I say it with ensurance that if we want to have democracy in Europe through this century we can already dig big hole for our continent.
So what do you propse indtead? A christian dictatorship? I remember you mentioned Franco and Salazar as viable options not too long ago. Well, I'd rather have an Islamic state than that.
But ideally, Europe should be a secular, democratic, liberal, multiethnic continent with no minorities threating to overthrow it, which includes Muslims, extreme Catholics, communists..
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
May I know how many Anglo Muslim in Britain ? I mean British caucasian Muslim. I have seen some photos from Viva Palestine departure ceremony, and I saw almost all of Muslim in those photos have middle east faces.
(Just wondering, was there LI member in those photos ?)
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
I don´t know how increasing amount of muslims in Europe would threaten the democracy at all. Is it threat only when people pray in mosques by the name of Allah but not when people pray in churches by the name of God?
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
those are the reason I am against additional influx of Muslims. I want Europe remains a secular, liberal, multicultural, pluralistic,demcoratic as it is now. However, certain sacrifices need to be done on part of the very ideals I wish to perserve.
This contradicts itself. In liberal democracy, You cant persecute anyone based on religion/race/skin colour. In liberal democracy You cant forbid gays to adopt children, as well as You cant forbid a muslim to be a prime minister who then opens the gates to immigrants. Actually in liberal democracy, Your words about limitting the number of muslims to Europe are unaccaptable. This is the language of Jorg Heider, language of fascism. In liberal democracy such issues like the ethnic or religious features are unacceptable. This is the strict following of "Freedom,Equality,Brotherhood". At last in liberal democracy it doesnt matter if a country Slovakia is inhabited by 3 millions of sympathic Pakistanis. Any words warning against it are undemocratic, they are fascist. This is the legacy of "Liberté - Egalité - Fraternité". That is why this girl supports this rule in France, although that in Morocco she would treat it as Kufr idea.
Last edited by Amadeus85; 06-03-2009 at 04:38 PM.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
I'll be honest, I'm not thrilled by such news. Islamic ideals and societal principles are simply not mine. It is not individualistic enough and freedom is simply not one of its priorities. There also seem so many Muslims that are unhappy with the society they live in, that I believe that a large increase in the number of pious Muslim will IMHO lead to more social conflict and more clashes.
Btw, how did the atheist population evolve over those 4 years? From the stats it appears atheists are also overrepresented in younger age groups. Besides, I oppose this idea that children of less then 4 years old can have a religion! At best they are born in a certain religious background. But plenty of Muslims turn away from their religion when they grow up and stop practicing.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
This contradicts itself. In liberal democracy, You cant persecute anyone based on religion/race/skin colour. In liberal democracy You cant forbid gays to adopt children, as well as You cant forbid a muslim to be a prime minister who then opens the gates to immigrants. Actually in liberal democracy, Your words about limitting the number of muslims to Europe are unaccaptable. This is the language of Jorg Heider, language of fascism. In liberal democracy such issues like the ethnic or religious features are unacceptable. This is the strict following of "Freedom,Equality,Brotherhood". At last in liberal democracy it doesnt matter if a country Slovakia is inhabited by 3 millions of sympathic Pakistanis. Any words warning against it are undemocratic, they are fascist. This is the legacy of "Liberté - Egalité - Fraternité". That is why this girl supports this rule in France, although that in Morocco she would treat it as Kufr idea.
Yeh, what I'm saying is that liberal decoracy needs to be adapted in order to make it sustainable.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yeh, what I'm saying is that liberal decoracy needs to be adapted in order to make it sustainable.
Reminds me of a friend of mine. He always kept saying: "liberal democracy is not a suicide pact".
The irony of it all is that Muslims now depend on liberal ideals of freedom to defend their way of life while they are a minority. Yet, these freedoms are not at all part of Islamic political ideals. Dawaah stalls and freedom to build mosques are nice, but an atheist 'Dawaah stall' in a Muslim majority country is unthinkable.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I'll be honest, I'm not thrilled by such news. Islamic ideals and societal principles are simply not mine. It is not individualistic enough and freedom is simply not one of its priorities. There also seem so many Muslims that are unhappy with the society they live in, that I believe that a large increase in the number of pious Muslim will IMHO lead to more social conflict and more clashes.
Perhaps more muslims (especially indigenous ones) would make the rest of society realize that "hey, these muslims actually belong here, perhaps we should try to figure out how to peacefully coexist with them?". Perhaps they would be more encouraged to solve problems with the muslim community if they were more large scale?
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
Perhaps more muslims (especially indigenous ones) would make the rest of society realize that "hey, these muslims actually belong here, perhaps we should try to figure out how to peacefully coexist with them?". Perhaps they would be more encouraged to solve problems with the muslim community if they were more large scale?
True, we have no choice. We have to coexist, there is no alternative. There will have to be compromises. Again, there is no alternative. As Muslims increase their electoral clout they will gain influence, this is a fact of life.
IMHO the most important aspect here is to avoid social issues from getting out of hand. We got an increasingly large group of non-Muslim British radicalizing in opposition to Muslim migration. In response we have Muslims radicalizing as well.
We need to make sure our societies don't turn into a Lebanon or Northern Ireland. Or heck, even an India, where thousands die each year in all kinds of structural religious and ethnic violence. Sure, it seems far away and unlikely in a rich stable country like Britain. But lets not forget that European history is filled with religious violence and civil unrest. It would be silly to assume we are now somehow immune from it.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
This contradicts itself. In liberal democracy, You cant persecute anyone based on religion/race/skin colour. In liberal democracy You cant forbid gays to adopt children, as well as You cant forbid a muslim to be a prime minister who then opens the gates to immigrants. Actually in liberal democracy, Your words about limitting the number of muslims to Europe are unaccaptable. This is the language of Jorg Heider, language of fascism. In liberal democracy such issues like the ethnic or religious features are unacceptable. This is the strict following of "Freedom,Equality,Brotherhood". At last in liberal democracy it doesnt matter if a country Slovakia is inhabited by 3 millions of sympathic Pakistanis. Any words warning against it are undemocratic, they are fascist. This is the legacy of "Liberté - Egalité - Fraternité". That is why this girl supports this rule in France, although that in Morocco she would treat it as Kufr idea.
Well, if your goal is to prevent the growth of Islam in Europe, the only policy measure you can reasonably pursue is putting strict controls on Muslim immigration. Any other measure will without doubt be illiberal, discriminatory and thus oppressive, because you'll be infringing of the rights of Muslim citizens. This is IMHO unacceptable.
That is why immigration controls is the only policy I support.
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
It is inevitable and the only choices I see for Europe, is to be constantly engaged in wars creating public hysteria with home made bombs and terrorist threats that they attribute to Muslims, so that there is a constant schism and hatred, whereby they justify their oppressions and murders overseas whilst doing what they have done best for centuries which is steal the wealth of other nations to support their habits 'under the guise of freedom' of course.. but fact of the matter is, with the current economic crisis promising to continue.. they will have no choice but to a real war on their hands, where the other group is pushed hard enough and has had enough, and I reckon it will not be pretty.. not really as a matter of resources but sheer number and drive of the 'enemy'.
and I believe that is exactly what will happen!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
Salaam
people are panicking - this news shows that stopping Immigartion doesnt mean anything - what about the non muslims - why dont you start to producing more children?? The Question also has to eb asked why are the other groups not increasing so much - if they are at all.
peace
Last edited by Zafran; 06-03-2009 at 07:05 PM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Re: Muslim population 'rising 10 times faster than rest of society'
The core of secularism:
advocates freedoms as such it is beginning to backfire on them...
to be homosexual, to sleep around and not commit to a woman, to drink alcohol, to have children via insemination if at all.. none of these foster a family unit.. I bring up alcohol amongst others because it can lower sperm count. Actually each thing I have mentioned up which goes against Islamic principles also thwarts their own effort at a homogeneous Europe but they are not realizing that they are in fact bringing it upon themselves but desire a scapegoat in the form of 'Muslims' for it is easier to blame their own failures than own up to them!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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