Iranians fired up over election

**Güven** · 06-12-2009

Iranians fired up over election

By Jon Leyne
BBC News, Tehran

It has become an extraordinary day, at the end of what has been an extraordinary election campaign.

As soon as polls opened in Iran, it became clear that the enthusiasm of the last few days has been translated into what is likely to be a huge turnout.

There were queues snaking round the block from many polling stations.

The crowds gathered outside, in segregated lines of men and women. Even as they waited to vote, they continued the spontaneous debate that has been sweeping Iran in the last week.

At one polling station I visited, some voters came up to me, nervous that the government might be trying to rig the election.

They were worried that a bus being used as a mobile polling station was not as well monitored as the main polling centre.

Other voters say the system under which a reference number has to be written by the candidates' name on the ballot paper is confusing.

Good humour

Much of the mobile phone text message system seems not to be working, a system the opposition had been hoping to use to send back reports from their monitors at polling stations and election counts.

The opposition has complained to the government.

Rumours are sweeping Tehran that some satellite TV stations may have been blocked.

But for the most part election day has continued the good humour of recent days.

One supporter of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a woman in the long black religious chador, made a point of shaking hands with another woman wearing the green colours of the opposition contender, Mir-Hossein Mousavi.

Many of the polling stations are in mosques or other religious buildings.

At the Hosseiniyat Ershad in north Tehran, the number of women, particularly young women, queuing to vote is most striking.

The young voters who have been turning out in force for Mr Mousavi say they want more personal freedom, more opportunities and better relations with the West.

Extended voting

Supporters of Mr Ahmadinejad have praised him for pushing forward the nuclear programme, and say he has earned more respect for Iran internationally.

By mid-morning, the interior ministry announced that already five million people had voted. Voting was extended by two hours, and may be extended longer.

Such a high turnout will make Iranians more confident of the outcome.

They will remember the election in 1997, in which President Khatami defeated a candidate heavily favoured by the establishment.

His victory was so overwhelming it soon became clear that it could not be overturned, even if there had been those trying to do so.

Results are expected to begin coming in during the night. Almost every Iranian you meet is eager for any idea about what is going to happen.

Source

**جوري** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

The displaced Jews needed somewhere to go after WW2 and present day Israel was the original homeland of their people. They have just as much right to be there as the Palestinians. .

very misguided and historically and biblicaly wrong:

the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition, modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day "Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

I hope this helps..

pls read your own bible you'd see that upon Sara's death (even if we were to forgo all the above) Abraham P purchases a land from the Canaanites to bury Sarah, were the land 'promised' them why would there be a need for such a purchase....

I am kind of amused by the level of education or lack thereof of most Israeli sympathizers.. whether the Iranian guy denies the holocaust or not is inconsequential, what is of consequence is a European caused problem being shouldered by poor Palestinians..

all the best

**ragdollcat1982** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

very misguided and historically and biblicaly wrong:

the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition, modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day "Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

I hope this helps..

pls read your own bible you'd see that upon Sara's death (even if we were to forgo all the above) Abraham P purchases a land from the Canaanites to bury Sarah, were the land 'promised' them why would there be a need for such a purchase....

I am kind of amused by the level of education or lack thereof of most Israeli sympathizers.. whether the Iranian guy denies the holocaust or not is inconsequential, what is of consequence is a European caused problem being shouldered by poor Palestinians..

all the best

Thank you for opinion. Unfortuantly, it is faught with misinformation. You are correct in one thing a lot of these problems were caused by 19th century Anti Semitism and poor decisions by the allies at the end of WW1 (these decisions also caused the Vietnam War). But above all they were caused by Adolf Hitler, who sadly it seesms Amadenjaoud(sp) idealizes. Who not only made the extermination of the Jews along 5 million other who were not Jewish a poltical ideal, he also taught his ideas to many Arab leaders including the Syrian, Saudis and Jordanians. So in a way it is a "European" created problem.
Since you brought gentics into this longstanding myth about the legitmacy of the ancesrty of the Askanazti Jews there are also Sephardic Jews there seems to be an equal absence that the Palestianin are the descendants of the Caanites or the other local peoples who are mentioned in the Old Testament. Lets leave religion out of this. ( Since Turkish records indicate that poor Arabs were brought from throughout the Arab world to work the estates of the Turkish masters)
To address the Biblical comments, taken for their historical content that religion isnt an issue here . The story of Abraham counters several of your points. First, God promised the land to his desecdants, but that does not mean that private property did not exist and were not observed. The same is true in America today. If a city or state ceases land from an adjacent jurisdiction the privately owned property is still left to the owner he just pays his taxes to a different jurisdiction. Second Genesis clearly states that any notion of primo gentre ( european term meaning the first inherits) was circumvented by Jacobs duplicty. Furthermore Exodus, Number, Deutronomy and Levitcus all lay out Gods promise to Moses and his descendants/successors that the Israelites have a divine right to portions of Caanan. While the books of the OT were probably not put down in writing until about 700 BC there is clear available archelocial and anthropoligal evidence in Egyptian, Phonecian, and other existant nations at that time of the presence of a people who worshipped the God of Abraham and who alteranatly called themselves the Ivrite, Isrealites, and a few others that are obviously the local languages terms for these people. These words had meaning back than that are missed today. Ivrite or Hebrew meaning those who crossed over or Israelite or those who who came from Israel who was Jacob. I am sure do too conversion and intermarrying in this day and age it would be impossible to say even if all the first centry Jews were of "Jewish" ancestry. But such ancesteral eugenics are not relevant when a people accepts a religion, suffers for accepting it for 2 millenia and continues to accept it. There are also the 3 Disapera the best we can tell today is that both the Jews and the Palestinians are of mostly Semitic origin. As to rulership maybe the era of the Israelite, Samarian and Judean kings only lasted a few hundred to maybe a thousand years. Again there is evidence of continuous occupation. Even under Persian, Greek, Syrian, Egytpian, and Roman rule the community was still there. BTW it was the Romans who named the place Palestine. The pre Christian Romans.

Look at the evidence, Joshua and Judges show very clearly that those ancient Israelites lived more often in peace than at war with the Caanaties and the Philistines. ( who were probably an Indo European peoples).Why can that not be the case today. Just to let you know I am an American of Irish descent who is very concearned about the conflict in Northern Ireland, yet I want to see the situation solved peacefully and my husband is of Welsh descent and wants to see things solved peacefully as well. I do not sympathize with any goverment in that section of the world, but I cannot imagine any nation tolerating another saying that it should be wiped off the face of the map, no matther who. Islam is a religion that accepts all believers regardless of race, ethinicty or tribal affilation. It is sad when people on any side of a conflict forget their religion and put those other things ahead of it.

**جوري** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

Thank you for opinion. Unfortuantly, it is faught with misinformation.

Then I challenge you to prove what you write with focus not Pathologically excessive and unrelated talk!

You are correct in one thing a lot of these problems were caused by 19th century Anti Semitism and poor decisions by the allies at the end of WW1 (these decisions also caused the Vietnam War). But above all they were caused by Adolf Hitler, who sadly it seesms Amadenjaoud(sp) idealizes. Who not only made the extermination of the Jews along 5 million other who were not Jewish a poltical ideal, he also taught his ideas to many Arab leaders including the Syrian, Saudis and Jordanians. So in a way it is a "European" created problem.

How did he teach them do you reckon? from the way it looks, Hitler has taught the Zionist a thing or two since they are doing to the Palestinians exactly what was inflicted on them during WWII.
Having a poor opinion of Zionism and exterminating Jews on the hands of Nazis doesn't equal to the same thing, other than in the jaded view of a few who think that if they create enough hype, anything that opposes it, is illegitimate by comparison!
and Palestinian shouldn't have to be made to bear that burden, or bury their children every day and have no hope or chance at all at a normal life, as in born and die in refugee camps so that your Zionist friends can live happy on stolen land!

Zionism= Nazism
you should read
http://books.google.com/books?id=eLo...ummary_r&cad=0

Since you brought gentics into this longstanding myth about the legitmacy of the ancesrty of the Askanazti Jews there are also Sephardic Jews there seems to be an equal absence that the Palestianin are the descendants of the Caanites or the other local peoples who are mentioned in the Old Testament. Lets leave religion out of this. ( Since Turkish records indicate that poor Arabs were brought from throughout the Arab world to work the estates of the Turkish masters)

How is the evidence equal? The term Semitic has come of late in the west to mean Jews because of their brain washing you, it is more correctly applicable to the inhabitants of Arabia, who more than any other group have retained their Semitic features, in manners, customs.. I reference to Von Kremmer,springer, syce, DeGoeje amongst many other scholars. What you write is neither scientific nor historically accurate, In the OT for instance many are put in the semitic stock while they are not such as the Elamite, and Ludim, while the actual semites and the inhabitants of the regions that have always been are excluded such as the Phoneticians and the Canaanites Quoting K.K hitti, history of the Arabs. pp 8-9

To address the Biblical comments, taken for their historical content that religion isnt an issue here . The story of Abraham counters several of your points. First, God promised the land to his desecdants, but that does not mean that private property did not exist and were not observed.

indeed and if that is the case then the old T laws are clear as to whom the right of inheritance goes to. You don't get to cherry pick to cajole your personal interests!
I am also glad you touched upon personal property, since that is exactly what is happening in Palestine, these non-semitic European Jews are displacing them from their homes and private property by every means imaginable

Media Tags are no longer supported

A very common occurrence to go into homes as in above video, kill inhabitants and claim it as their own!

The same is true in America today. If a city or state ceases land from an adjacent jurisdiction the privately owned property is still left to the owner he just pays his taxes to a different jurisdiction. Second Genesis clearly states that any notion of primo gentre ( european term meaning the first inherits) was circumvented by Jacobs duplicty. Furthermore Exodus, Number, Deutronomy and Levitcus all lay out Gods promise to Moses and his descendants/successors that the Israelites have a divine right to portions of Caanan.

inconsequential, what does America have to do with any of this, and why do you insist on circumventing the fact that Abraham is the father of the Arabs, middle eastern in origin and his eldest is Ishmael? he is not a European Jew nor as his descendants, you don't get to make them so by wishful thoughts!

While the books of the OT were probably not put down in writing until about 700 BC there is clear available archelocial and anthropoligal evidence in Egyptian, Phonecian, and other existant nations at that time of the presence of a people who worshipped the God of Abraham and who alteranatly called themselves the Ivrite, Isrealites, and a few others that are obviously the local languages terms for these people. These words had meaning back than that are missed today. Ivrite or Hebrew meaning those who crossed over or Israelite or those who who came from Israel who was Jacob. I am sure do too conversion and intermarrying in this day and age it would be impossible to say even if all the first centry Jews were of "Jewish" ancestry. But such ancesteral eugenics are not relevant when a people accepts a religion, suffers for accepting it for 2 millenia and continues to accept it. There are also the 3 Disapera the best we can tell today is that both the Jews and the Palestinians are of mostly Semitic origin. As to rulership maybe the era of the Israelite, Samarian and Judean kings only lasted a few hundred to maybe a thousand years. Again there is evidence of continuous occupation. Even under Persian, Greek, Syrian, Egytpian, and Roman rule the community was still there. BTW it was the Romans who named the place Palestine. The pre Christian Romans.

I don't understand why you are drowning me in this much nonsense? Khazars that converted to Judaism in the 7th century
see here:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127483

written by jews if I may add, so you may not come and put a spin on terms. They are not the original Hebrews nor have any link to Abraham, they are promised nothing, they are colonialists! a Muslim from Malaysia can't call dibs on Makkah simply because they share the same religion nor does the fact that they too are Muslim make them Semitic people in origin a Semite isn't a religious rite it is a race of people, fortunately Islam doesn't make such distinctions nor classifications of people. Most of the original Hebrews became Christian then later Muslim, they are far removed from the colonial settler Zionists that currently occupy Palestine!

Look at the evidence, Joshua and Judges show very clearly that those ancient Israelites lived more often in peace than at war with the Caanaties and the Philistines. ( who were probably an Indo European peoples).Why can that not be the case today. Just to let you know I am an American of Irish descent who is very concearned about the conflict in Northern Ireland, yet I want to see the situation solved peacefully and my husband is of Welsh descent and wants to see things solved peacefully as well. I do not sympathize with any goverment in that section of the world, but I cannot imagine any nation tolerating another saying that it should be wiped off the face of the map, no matther who. Islam is a religion that accepts all believers regardless of race, ethinicty or tribal affilation. It is sad when people on any side of a conflict forget their religion and put those other things ahead of it.

I have no idea what your ancestry has to do with this topic and frankly not sure I care, but don't come entitle people to a land that isn't theirs and then ask us to be all forgiving and clement about it or else!
Jews are welcome to live under Islamic rule on Muslim land, they are not however entitled to do to the Palestinians what was done to them, displace them, commit massive genocides and then come cry about how we are trying to exterminate them..
Perhaps if you better understood history, you'd learn why there will NEVER be peace in that region, and why most hate Israel and its zionists with a passion. You don't get to have both, change history, steal a land and then have the indigenous folks of that region both love you and buy into your bull ****. It doesn't work out that way and it is certainly enough that they make out with enough of my and my family's tax money as well millions of other tax payers, which is funneled to that colonial state by the billions. It won't change a thing however.. you can't buy yourself out of God's wrath for being the very definition of evil!

sob7an Allah

**islamic-s** · 06-14-2009

The U.S goverment does fund alot of money to Zionist Israel, but many people are against it, and more are awakining from this illuded subject. More americans are being more aware of whats going on now....

Back to the topic. I'm happy for the people of Iran with their choice in the elections.

**Qingu** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by The_Prince

well the results are out and ahmedinjad has won. the losers dont seem to like the fruits of democracy, sore losers, they must accept the result and move on, this is democracy, the majority have spoken and thats it.

You don't think it's fishy that Ahmadinejad won twice as many votes as Moussavi in every single city and province of Iran? Even in Moussavi's hometown? (Almost all elections, including all previous elections in Iran, showed far more voting variation among individual places.)

Or that the government (controlled by Ahmadinejad) shut down facebook, text messaging, and Moussavi's web sites on the eve of the election?

Or that the dictator of Iran basically endorsed Ahmadinejad?

This isn't Hamas' legitimate election victory in Palestine. There are lots of indicators that this is rigged, despite what Iran's state-run media (controlled by Ahmadinejad!) says. And pointing those out doesn't mean we "don't like the fruits of democracy," it means we don't think this is democracy, period.

why arent western governments condemning the violence and statements being made by the loser candidate musavi???? surely if ahmedinad lost and his supporters turned to violence,

Western leaders haven't said anything of note yet.

I certainly don't condone the violence. That said, if Mousavi won under such sketchy circumstances, I certainly wouldn't support his victory.

perhaps its time that these secularized pro western iranians and middle-easternes realize they are not in the majority, even in Lebanon the opposition actually won the popular vote, but just like in the U.S. the popular vote alone isnt enough to win you the election. poor guys, they have been brainwashed by their own propaganda.

Could you explain what you're talking about? It was a parliamentary election.

Also, are you saying that the idea that democracy is good is "propaganda"? That seems rather ... inconsistent ... with the rest of your post.

**Qingu** · 06-14-2009

I also want to make clear—as a resident kufr on here—that the reasons I dislike Ahmadinejad are largely the same as the reasons I dislike Bush. I think they are both incredibly ignorant men who use their religion as a prop to manipulate public support from ignorant people in their countries.

Both men have done incredible damage to their countries' standings in the international community and have ignored international laws. Both men ruined their countries' economies. Both men, when it comes to foreign policy, were basically puppets—Bush of Dick Cheney and his neocon advisors; Ahmadinejad, obviously, of Khameini, the actual leader of Iran.

I read in the paper that Ahmadinejad's supporters like him, not because of his policies or his intellect, but rather because he seems like he's a simple man that they can relate to. In America, Bush's supporters voted for him because they could imagine having a beer with him. I guess if beer was legal in Iran, you'd see a lot of people making the same statement about Ahmadinejad.

And now, it looks like both men have the honor of stealing elections in their countries.

I've always thought it was ironic that so many Republicans in my country want to nuke Iran and assassinate Ahmadinejad when they voted for someone so similar to him.

**Abu Hannah** · 06-14-2009

Over 100 opposition arrested and counting.........

**salafy_masry** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

This man scares me. I fear it will be either him or North Korea that will draw us into WW3.

He does not care much about killing other than muslims .. so I think you don't need to be scared.

**shock_proof** · 06-14-2009

If anyone thinks that the Iranian elections were free and fair is seriously misinformed or underinformed. Unelected bodies actually control many aspects of Iranian law.

Also if anyone thinks Iran will start WW3 is ridiculous, they're not stupid enough to start a war. If any nation was to start another world war then most likely the USA.

PS Interesting how people believe that Ahmadinejad said he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, clearly they don't speak Farsi.

**GuestFellow** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

The displaced Jews needed somewhere to go after WW2 and present day Israel was the original homeland of their people. They have just as much right to be there as the Palestinians. However the Israeli goverment does not have a right to displace a whole group of people who have been there for centuries. If the people of Iran have reelected the man through fair elections they are a sovereign nation and have the right to elect their own leader whomever he/she may be. He can hate America and especially Israel all he wants to do, but he cannot call for Israel to be destroyed and wiped off the face of the Earth and not expect Israel to eventually take action. "I " personally am not going to start a war of any kind. If Israel and Iran want to bomb each other let them, I dont think my nation should come to the aid of Israel,they can take care of themselves. Yet America most likely will feel obligated to come to Israels aid and I will not support that personally as I dont like war and violence as it is. If people were smart Israel and Iran would set across a conferance table and negotaite a treaty of some kind.

I do believe Jews should have a country of their own. They always have been presecuted and been through horrific events such as the holocaust. However they should not taken the land of Palestine through violent force.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did not specifically say ''wipe Israel off the map,'' or something along those lines. That was a mistranslation. He would like to negotiate with Israel; however, they will not even bother since they are living comfortably. At the Durban II conference he spoke and many people left without even listening to him. Some of the Israeli people made fun of him.

It is clear no one wants to give a chance to listen to him. The President himself accepts debates and challenges. For example, where he had accepted the invitation from Coloumbia University for a debate.

**Banu_Hashim** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by Guestfellow

For example, where he had accepted the invitation from Coloumbia University for a debate.

Was that the same university he went to, where even the person introducing him was rude to him? And he said something along the the lines of 'In my country we respect our guests'.

**GuestFellow** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by Banu_Hashim

Was that the same university he went to, where even the person introducing him was rude to him? And he said something along the the lines of 'In my country we respect our guests'.

Yes that is the one. The President of Iran, went to that University to answer some questions.

**Sahabiyaat** · 06-14-2009

i will be quite saddend if the voting process was tampered with...nevertheless i am glad ahmediejad won.He is a man of conviction (however reckless it may be), and there are very few like him....i was actually relieved that he won.

**ragdollcat1982** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

T It won't change a thing however.. you can't buy yourself out of God's wrath for being the very definition of evil!

sob7an Allah

I gave you another prespective Skye. I am sorry that it did not satisfy you. The type of comments and evidence I have heard from you I have also heard from white supremicist. As for your comment that I quoted was that a general or personally directed? If it was a general comment then no offense taken. I never said the the Muslims or Palestinians want to exterminate the Jews. Do I think Amadenjad would like too exterminate Israel it seems that way. I am not brainwashed, God gave me a brain, I use it and I resent being told I am brainwashed and I am not a Zionist. I do not support what Israel did to Gaza and are still doing and I have publically condemned it myself. You seem to have a comtempt for non Muslims in general and those of us in the West. I dont know your background and it is none of my business, but I do myself get sick of being sterotyped. Just like the Muslims that I correspond with are tired of being sterotyped as terrorist. I take people as individiuals. II am curious about one thing, do you advocate the abolition of the state of Israel?

**ragdollcat1982** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by Sahabiyaat

i will be quite saddend if the voting process was tampered with...nevertheless i am glad ahmediejad won.He is a man of conviction (however reckless it may be), and there are very few like him....i was actually relieved that he won.

All the world can do now is watch and wait and see how this situation developes. The US has rejected his declaration of victory for now.

**czgibson** · 06-14-2009

Greetings,

Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

All the world can do now is watch and wait and see how this situation developes. The US has rejected his declaration of victory for now.

Has it? Have you got a link for that?

Peace

**جوري** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982

I gave you another prespective Skye. I am sorry that it did not satisfy you. The type of comments and evidence I have heard from you I have also heard from white supremicist. As for your comment that I quoted was that a general or personally directed? If it was a general comment then no offense taken. I never said the the Muslims or Palestinians want to exterminate the Jews. Do I think Amadenjad would like too exterminate Israel it seems that way. I am not brainwashed, God gave me a brain, I use it and I resent being told I am brainwashed and I am not a Zionist. I do not support what Israel did to Gaza and are still doing and I have publically condemned it myself. You seem to have a comtempt for non Muslims in general and those of us in the West. I dont know your background and it is none of my business, but I do myself get sick of being sterotyped. Just like the Muslims that I correspond with are tired of being sterotyped as terrorist. I take people as individiuals.

Then what is the problem? You gave your perspective, I commented only on the portion of it that is historically and biblically incorrect!
I have shown you how it is incorrect from Jewish sources and historical sources. I called for the Jews to live peacefully under Islamic rule in Muslim land as they have done after their expulsion of Europe. Me sounding like a supremacist to you, I am afraid doesn't pack enough dynamism to sway anyone in any particular way.. Israel is indeed a colonial settler zionist state (zionism) was considered a crime by the way but after enough lobbying they got to reverse that ruling. Israel was built on terrorism from such groups as the haganah, irgun and stern gang-- you should also interview Arab Jews who were forced into Israel in spite of their will under scare tactics.

Beyond this, there is really nothing I can do to make it any more clear. It is a matter of whether you accept facts or your own empotionality.. the Muslim world should it wake up, knows that they are en enemy and we are at war with them to the day of recompense if so it takes!

You should read the thread about Israel's war ethics and Islamic war ethics before you take out the violin and call me a supramcist?

Name of Questioner

Sister - Turkey

Title

Jewish Fatwas on Killing: Politics or Religion?

Question

Respected scholars, as-salamu `alaykum. As you see, the brutal barbaric Israeli war againstGaza that has led to a horrific number of victims: more than 1400 people have been killed and more than 5000 seriously injured. The vast majority of them are women and children.

Before and during the aggression, Israeli rabbis and scholars issued a lot of fatwas that encourage attacking Gaza and its inhabitants, irrespective of whether such inhabitants are civilians or combatants. These Jewish fatwas incited Israeli soldiers to kill and destroy every thing, even to kill animals and cut down trees, and this is what happened.

Why do they have such extreme hatred towards innocent people and politicize fatwas for inhuman goals? Do Muslims have similar instructions that incite killing innocent people or destroying life?

Date

26/Jan/2009

Name of Mufti

Jamal Badawi

Topic

International Relations & Jihad, Relations during War

trick 1 - Iranians fired up over election

Answer

wwwislamicboardcom - Iranians fired up over election

Wa `alaykum as-salamu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister, thank you for your question. We ask Almighty Allah to reward you and strengthen our faith in Him.

Islam never allows killing innocent people. Even in times of war, the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah prohibit killing civilians, women, children, elderly people and those who are not armed who have nothing to do with war. Moreover, international laws and conventions prohibit targeting innocent people.

Really, it is unbecoming of Jewish rabbis to encourage their leaders to target the helpless Palestinian people and their infrastructure based on a religious creed. We, as Muslims, believe that the Shari`ah of Prophet Musa (peace and blessings be upon him) never allowed targeting innocent people in the way the Israeli army did in Gaza.

In his response to your question, Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor of religious studies and management at St. Mary's University and the vice chairman of the Islamic American University, stated,

A proper understanding of Islam and its teachings concerning the ethics of warfare does not allow for deliberately harming innocent people. This can be amply documented from the Qur'an and the Sunnah. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) instructed Muslim armies not to commit any act of treachery or to kill women, children, elderly people, the clergies of other religions or any non-combatants. He also forbade any unnecessary destruction such as residential homes, non-military targets and what we call today the infrastructure of the community. He also forbade killing animals for any purpose other than food.

Really, it is unfortunate that some rabbis, as you said, have abused the original pristine teachings of Prophet Musa (peace and blessings be upon him) to justify the way they massacred innocent people for political purposes. However, I must say that there have also been Jewish rabbis, intellectuals and ordinary, decent Jews who have loudly and clearly expressed their outrage both as Jews and as decent human beings at these crimes that were committed against their fellow human beings, namely the Palestinian people.

Any Muslim who tries to justify the deliberate killing of innocent, non-combatants or the unnecessary destruction of property must be condemned in exactly the same terms as any other person from any other faith or background. Certainly this would be a violation of the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah when properly and contextually understood.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...EAskTheScholar

all the best

**ragdollcat1982** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by czgibson

Greetings,

Has it? Have you got a link for that?

Peace

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/..._pe/us_us_iran

Here you go

**mohsen1985** · 06-14-2009

everyone,
I know I haven't been on the forums for a long time, I just came here to say a few words as an Iranian living in Iran.

The elections were rigged, that's one thing no one can deny, and I've seen accurate proof, but as the officials say (in their secret meetings) it's for the best interests of the country (as it happens in all the elections over the world). The situation in Tehran isn't as bad as the media report, there have been some large gatherings and protests, but the numbers aren't in the thousands as the media reports. A couple of hundred to 500 at most, and the crowds have been dispersed by anti-riot police quickly.

There were many people shouting slogans on the rooftops in my neighborhood last night and a lot of traffic in the streets (I live near the Vali Asr st.), and at 9:25 PM as I am writing this post there's about one 50th of the people there were last night. Things are calming down.

I'm not a fan of Ahmadinejad, but in my opinion all the people have to support him and quit this rioting nonsense, because we are all one nation working together. Internal conflicts are not what this country needs right now at this time of hardship.

Well, it was good to be back for a few minutes, wish you all the best.

**ragdollcat1982** · 06-14-2009

Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Then what is the problem? You gave your perspective, I commented only on the portion of it that is historically and biblically incorrect!
I have shown you how it is incorrect from Jewish sources and historical sources. I called for the Jews to live peacefully under Islamic rule in Muslim land as they have done after their expulsion of Europe. Me sounding like a supremacist to you, I am afraid doesn't pack enough dynamism to sway anyone in any particular way.. Israel is indeed a colonial settler zionist state (zionism) was considered a crime by the way but after enough lobbying they got to reverse that ruling. Israel was built on terrorism from such groups as the haganah, irgun and stern gang-- you should also interview Arab Jews who were forced into Israel in spite of their will under scare tactics.

Beyond this, there is really nothing I can do to make it any more clear. It is a matter of whether you accept facts or your own empotionality.. the Muslim world should it wake up, knows that they are en enemy and we are at war with them to the day of recompense if so it takes!

You should read the thread about Israel's war ethics and Islamic war ethics before you take out the violin and call me a supramcist?

It is not 1948 anymore. The British who conquered that land from the Turks ceded a portion of it to Israel. I read your story on the Khazars who converted to Judiasm what of it? Alot of people converted after Roman sacked the temple in 70 AD, they are still Jews. That proves nothing of the legitmacy of the ancestry of the Jewish people. I did not call you a supremicist so please do not put words into my mouth. If I called you one I would have said it outright. I am not a Zionist and all I am interested in is peace. You say that the Jews can live under Muslim rule, if they choose to live in a Muslim nation where Shariah law is the law of the land than I would say you are right. Each nation has a right to make their own laws and if a person chooses to visit or live in a nation they are obligated to obey those laws. I personally have no desire to live under Shariah law as I am an American and I believe in seperation of church and state and have no desire to live under a theocracy of any kind. You say that I am basing all of this on emotionality, well it seems to me you are very emotional about the issue as well sister. It is hard not to be no matter what side one takes.