It has become an extraordinary day, at the end of what has been an extraordinary election campaign.
As soon as polls opened in Iran, it became clear that the enthusiasm of the last few days has been translated into what is likely to be a huge turnout.
There were queues snaking round the block from many polling stations.
The crowds gathered outside, in segregated lines of men and women. Even as they waited to vote, they continued the spontaneous debate that has been sweeping Iran in the last week.
At one polling station I visited, some voters came up to me, nervous that the government might be trying to rig the election.
They were worried that a bus being used as a mobile polling station was not as well monitored as the main polling centre.
Other voters say the system under which a reference number has to be written by the candidates' name on the ballot paper is confusing.
Good humour
Much of the mobile phone text message system seems not to be working, a system the opposition had been hoping to use to send back reports from their monitors at polling stations and election counts.
The opposition has complained to the government.
Rumours are sweeping Tehran that some satellite TV stations may have been blocked.
But for the most part election day has continued the good humour of recent days.
One supporter of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a woman in the long black religious chador, made a point of shaking hands with another woman wearing the green colours of the opposition contender, Mir-Hossein Mousavi.
Many of the polling stations are in mosques or other religious buildings.
At the Hosseiniyat Ershad in north Tehran, the number of women, particularly young women, queuing to vote is most striking.
The young voters who have been turning out in force for Mr Mousavi say they want more personal freedom, more opportunities and better relations with the West.
Extended voting
Supporters of Mr Ahmadinejad have praised him for pushing forward the nuclear programme, and say he has earned more respect for Iran internationally.
By mid-morning, the interior ministry announced that already five million people had voted. Voting was extended by two hours, and may be extended longer.
Such a high turnout will make Iranians more confident of the outcome.
They will remember the election in 1997, in which President Khatami defeated a candidate heavily favoured by the establishment.
His victory was so overwhelming it soon became clear that it could not be overturned, even if there had been those trying to do so.
Results are expected to begin coming in during the night. Almost every Iranian you meet is eager for any idea about what is going to happen.
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
No that is an generalazation and unfair one at that. Bucolic ? I live and was raised in a city. I told you before all I care about is peace in the world. Have you ever been to America? How many Americans have you personally met? Sterotyping Americans all in one box is unfair and could border on bigotry. I could say all Arabs or Muslims are terrorist that want to destroy and kill all Americans, but I know that not to be true. Most Muslims are peaceful good decent folks. One of the things that made me want to learn and explore Islam was it tolerance of people regardless of race or ethinicity.
Do you feel like a bucolic country oaf? The same way I should feel like a white supremacist as per your post correct?
I happen to be an american citizen and so is most of my family clearly the comment was directed toward a particular group which is loudest and most ignorant . Do you want to meander the topic from Iran to Israel to now your own person?
I know it is hard to believe but the world doesn't revolve around you, your feelings and your self-righteousness!
all the best
Last edited by جوري; 06-14-2009 at 06:20 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Do you feel like a bucolic country oaf?
I happen to be an american citizen and so is most of my family clearly the comment was directed toward a particular group which is loudest and most ignorant . Do you want to meander the topic from Iran to Israel to now your own person?
I know it is hard to believe but the world doesn't revolve around you, your feelings and your self-righteousness!
all the best
Nice dodge. You said you were from the Mideast and now live in Britian. Sorry if I assumed that you immigrated to Britian. I have never said the world revolved around me, where you get that from I do not know. You asked me why I did not like Amadenjad and I listed my concearns and it went from there. You sound like a very bitter person with an ax to grind and I am sorry for that. You are the one who keeps adding subtle personal attacks in these post and very cynical to anyone who does not share your ideology or worldview. I think maybe the mods should close this thread. I am going to follow the example of Jesus and turn the other cheek.
Last edited by ragdollcat1982; 06-14-2009 at 06:26 PM.
Reason: add line.
unlike you, I don't 'dodge' --likening someone to a white supremacist or calling them an anti-Semite and then denying it in later posts. I have absolutely nothing to dodge, and have no reason for political correctness to coax your ego or that of someone who shares your views. In politics people are bound to have an opinion that differs than you, with any luck it should be based on some facts not an emotional crisis!
Do you think you can get back to Iranian election or are you hoping this thread would be closed?
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Nice dodge. You said you were from the Mideast and now live in Britian. Sorry if I assumed that you immigrated to Britian. I have never said the world revolved around me, where you get that from I do not know. You asked me why I did not like Amadenjad and I listed my concearns and it went from there. You sound like a very bitter person with an ax to grind and I am sorry for that. You are the one who keeps adding subtle personal attacks in these post and very cynical to anyone who does not share your ideology or worldview. I think maybe the mods should close this thread. I am going to follow the example of Jesus and turn the other cheek.
I am a middle easterner who happens to be an American, where you got that I am from Britain I guess has to do with the way you process information and then write a composition based solely on your understanding with very little interests in actual facts?
and No I didn't immigrate to the U.S my father was a diplomat to the united nations.
as for me being bitter, well I guess I'll add that to your list of accolades, a scientist, a historian and now a psychiatrist.. now pls do go on and be all Jesus like after you brought not peace but a sword...
all the best
Last edited by جوري; 06-14-2009 at 06:35 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
unlike you, I don't 'dodge' --likening someone to a white supremacist or calling them an anti-Semite and then denying it in later posts. I have absolutely nothing to dodge, and have no reason for political correctness to coax your ego or that of someone who shares your views. In politics people are bound to have an opinion that differs than you, with any luck it should be based on some facts not an emotional crisis!
Do you think you can get back to Iranian election or are you hoping this thread would be closed?
all the best
I have nothing more to say to you Skye on anything. I have been civil with you and I never called you a white Supremicist. I never called you an Anto Semite, quit slandering me. May Gods peace and blessing be with you.
I have nothing more to say to you Skye on anything. I have been civil with you and I never called you a white Supremicist. I never called you an Anto Semite, quit slandering me. May Gods peace and blessing be with you.
I guess a nice 'dodge' is in order here too?.. I think your statements quoted above are for all to see, or is civility only applicable to fundies of a certain brand and Zionists? you had nothing to say to me just two a post ago why beat a dead horse?
There is no point to a double blind hypocrisy!
all the best
Last edited by جوري; 06-14-2009 at 06:41 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I did not vote for Bush and did not agree with anything he stood for. I dont watch FOX news or listen to conservative talk radio because as far as I am concearned it is just spewing messages of hate. I despise spewing hate and bigorty no matter what the prespective is. Bigotry and hate is against both the tenants of Christianity and Islam. I find Mohammed last sermon very informative on issue of race or ethinicty.
great - hopefully more people are like you
peace
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
1. immensely unread, bucolic oafs who are ready to imbue anything their media dishes out to them and then regurgitate it in various sectors
2. someone whose ill formed opinions are commonly encountered
How silly of me. My faltering knowledge of the English language is no match for your staggering intelligence.
and it isn't a generalization it is an observation..
I understand now - everything you say must be true.
if you don't like it either report a post, skip over it or don't post here no?
What would be the point in reporting it? You clearly have special privileges here that are denied to the rest of us.
On Iran: I agree with the comparisons that have been made between Ahmadinejad and Bush. Both men are terrible advertisements for their countries.
The election result may well be unimportant, though. As long as you have religious leaders in charge of a country the people there will clearly never be free.
How silly of me. My faltering knowledge of the English language is no match for your staggering intelligence.
Definition of average:
Lacking exceptional quality or ability to which I added, folks I find to be most like (oafs ready to imbue whatever is being dished to them).. other problems you might have or think others have in egotism and self-importance, I suggest you handle on your own private time?
as well any minor lingual nuances that you feel need highlighting or omission!
I understand now - everything you say must be true.
Good for you!
What would be the point in reporting it? You clearly have special privileges here that are denied to the rest of us.
That is news to me considering the permanent infarcts I have.. Perhaps the things that rile you are NOT as impressive as you'd like to believe?!
I know how badly you seem to want me off the forum with your episodic stalking, pouncing on every word and the oh so casual outcries of poor moderation, but I think it would be easier for you to just ignore me as a member than the occasional vulgar display of your distaste?
On Iran: I agree with the comparisons that have been made between Ahmadinejad and Bush. Both men are terrible advertisements for their countries.
you are so observant, good for you!
The election result may well be unimportant, though. As long as you have religious leaders in charge of a country the people there will clearly never be free.
Peace
so true, atheist leaders are so much better.. there is nothing like a massive genocide to set things aright!
all the best!
Last edited by جوري; 06-14-2009 at 09:10 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
All the world can do now is watch and wait and see how this situation developes. The US has rejected his declaration of victory for now.
I am not surprised.
format_quote Originally Posted by ragdollcat1982
What a terrible thing to say. I am an American and I have my own POV on things. I am not an ideologue. Do you dislike Americans and Westerners that much? Why?
Well personally I don't. I think it is silly to make generalisations because everyone is different as an individual. I just don't like how Western government deals with international affairs however, I dislike something about every single government, in the West and in the East. Like I am not happy with how Iran operates internally, that needs some improving.
Personally I am tired of the American government. They are too interfering, though the American government have done some good, such as helping people cope with poverty in Africa.
I know some Muslims who have a grudge against Americans and Westerners due to Iraq war, Afghanistan war, Islamophobia, stereotypes, Palestine/Israel conflict and they dislike how the Western media portrays Islamic views. Some Muslims I know feel attacked. They dislike the negative attitude towards Muslims. That is pretty much it. o.o
Though of course, it should not give them the opportunity to make generalisations of the West.
I agree - I dont stand for nations - I stand for principles.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
On Iran: I agree with the comparisons that have been made between Ahmadinejad and Bush. Both men are terrible advertisements for their countries.
Ahmedinejad, whatever you may think of him, is much much smarter, eloquent and inspirational than Bush has been or ever will be. I think he's a credit to the Iranian people, as a leader who is outspoken rather than someone who gives answers everyone wants to hear, or even worse; someone like Bush.
‘Say: If the ocean were ink wherewith to write out the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted, even if We added another ocean like it.’~Al Qu'raan (18:109)
The Iranian fellow is as unstable as the U.S govt. I agree.
I don't think this is true. Elections in the United States have their irregularities, for sure, but the results don't seem as blatantly made up. Most people agree that elections generally follow the will of the people, as opposed to the will of some third-party religious leader like a Christian version of the Ayatollah.
I don't think he is governing by a theocracy, unless it is his own brand of theocracy.. his is a type of dictatorship an autocracy, not much different than that of the previous admin.
Are you talking about Ahmadinejad? He isn't really governing anything. He's essentially a figurehead with a little bit of power over domestic affairs and a soapbox.
The real leader of Iran is Ayatollah Khameini.
If the U.S wants war, it will drag itself to it because it has alot of vested interest in seeing that entire region war torn and in shambles..
There you go, generalizing the entire United States.
You could certainly argue that certain politicians view it in our best interest to see Iran war-torn in shambles. This ignores the predominant school of thought by the Democrats now in power that it's better to have Iran as a stable trading partner and ally.
It's certainly not some abstract, objective truth that the United States would be in a better position if Iran and/or the middle east is war-torn. Reality doesn't work like that—the welfare of one nation isn't on a seesaw with the welfare of other nations on the other side.
that is why folks elect tyrants, because they'll take tyranny over foreign interests. There is the evil inside and the evil outside and I think most unanimously agree, they'd rather handle their own problems than have outsiders come in feigning interest in democracy and freedom fries and all other slogans that no one buys into except the idiots amongst us!
This I'll certainly agree with, and I hope Obama basically butts out of the Iranian election like he has been. Moussavi's people on Twitter have explicitly said that they hope we Americans shut up about it, so that their opponents can't accuse them of giving in to foreign manipulation.
Ahmedinejad, whatever you may think of him, is much much smarter, eloquent and inspirational than Bush has been or ever will be. I think he's a credit to the Iranian people, as a leader who is outspoken rather than someone who gives answers everyone wants to hear, or even worse; someone like Bush.
Bush was also outspoken and gave answers few people outside of his political base wanted to hear. Including the majority of Americans and other Western countries as well as pretty much the entire Islamic world. So I don't really see the difference on that count.
What statements and ideas by Ahmadinejad do you think support your claim that he's "smart," "eloquent" and "inspirational"? Maybe he sounds better in Farsi? In any case, like Bush, Ahmadinejad is simply a hypocrite. He whines constantly about foreign influence in Iran and the middle east while Iran bankrolls Hezbollah and Hamas. He whines about how the world should respect the democratic will of the people of Palestine and then blatantly steals elections in his own country. Like Bush, he provocates and ignores other nations and then acts all hurt and insulted when other nations don't give him respect. He's a pedagogue and a tool.
But of course, there is one difference: Bush had real power, and Ahmadinejad does not. The real leader of Iran is the Ayatollah, a non-elected dictator who rules by theocracy.
And I'd be much more fine with the Ayatollah if that's actually the kind of government the people of Iran want for themselves. Problem is, it looks like it isn't.
I don't think this is true. Elections in the United States have their irregularities, for sure, but the results don't seem as blatantly made up. Most people agree that elections generally follow the will of the people, as opposed to the will of some third-party religious leader like a Christian version of the Ayatollah.
You really believe that Bush won fair and square? that the elections weren't rigged?
Are you talking about Ahmadinejad? He isn't really governing anything. He's essentially a figurehead with a little bit of power over domestic affairs and a soapbox.
He indeed talks alot, I'd rather he shut up and do (not sure what for his own folk), but I like the fact that he riles the west so
The real leader of Iran is Ayatollah Khameini.
You do know that khomeni is dead right? he was also 89 when he died
There you go, generalizing the entire United States.
No, I am really not, the way democracy works is that majority rules, sometimes majority rules by a landslide sometimes by the skin of their teeth.. we can agree that there will always be a portion of the population extremely unhappy, and extremely loud, and their loudness gets passed into laws that affect other people in far away places!
You could certainly argue that certain politicians view it in our best interest to see Iran war-torn in shambles. This ignores the predominant school of thought by the Democrats now in power that it's better to have Iran as a stable trading partner and ally.
when you risk war with Iran you'll only be serving Israel's agenda but I fear the Iranians put their Jews near their nuclear plants or so I have read I am not sure if there is any truth to that, I'd wonder how they'd save them to Israel before that show down takes place.. now I don't expect you to know anything about sunnis or Muslims or minor nuances that affect politics, I don't think the Iranian agenda is all that noble or differs much from western agenda only from an opposite end of the spectrum, it is an unusual takes me back to the Fatimid or Safavid dynasty "Safawiyyah'' a real dangerous path if they actually have power then the rest of us might be screwed indeed-- theirs is a third party element, I can't quite articulate into words.. they are not quite the hedonistic west, but they have their own brand of deviant and dangerous ideologies. Their lack of understanding of Islam allows them to do a great deal of harm and I fear push the sunnis who are a minority in their country to the Saudi border or God knows what else...
It's certainly not some abstract, objective truth that the United States would be in a better position if Iran and/or the middle east is war-torn. Reality doesn't work like that—the welfare of one nation isn't on a seesaw with the welfare of other nations on the other side.
Most people here have a very superficial understanding of politics no offense to you personally, but there is a real vested interest in keeping the middle east secular and divded followed by the entire Muslim world.. I don't know if the west quite understands what it means for a shiite state to come into power and move into other regions, it isn't as bad as a sunni one I'd think from their perspective given that the sunnis make up 85-90% of the Muslim world... being ruled by a majority Muslim rule would be a deadlier blow than a miniority one.
This I'll certainly agree with, and I hope Obama basically butts out of the Iranian election like he has been. Moussavi's people on Twitter have explicitly said that they hope we Americans shut up about it, so that their opponents can't accuse them of giving in to foreign manipulation.
one thing we can agree on indeed.. there is alot that needs to be fixed here, U.S can't afford to whittle itself away on another war for the sake of that zionist state. Of course you are a Jew you must have some loyalty even if you are an atheist at that, but religion plays a great part in this whether you like to admit it or not...
christian fundies think that if they hasten to the aid of the settler state a republican Jesus will descend on a silver cloud for a wonderful rapture.
Jews using the stupidity and funds of those fundies to hasten the coming of their Moschiach, even if they have a current secular state, it doesn't deter them from colonizing more displacing more from their home and excavating beneath al Aqsa, and the Iranian fellow wishes to establish some bizarre Shiite state, where he exterminates the only normal scholars left in favor of their deviant ideologies.
beam me up scotty!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Ahmedinejad, whatever you may think of him, is much much smarter, eloquent and inspirational than Bush has been or ever will be. I think he's a credit to the Iranian people, as a leader who is outspoken rather than someone who gives answers everyone wants to hear, or even worse; someone like Bush.
Yes I agree. Listening to Ahmedinejad, he is far more intelligent than George Bush.
format_quote Originally Posted by Qingu
Bush was also outspoken and gave answers few people outside of his political base wanted to hear. Including the majority of Americans and other Western countries as well as pretty much the entire Islamic world. So I don't really see the difference on that count.
You should listen to the President of Iran. If your open minded and willingly to listen, he actually speaks quite a lot of sense.
What statements and ideas by Ahmadinejad do you think support your claim that he's "smart," "eloquent" and "inspirational"? Maybe he sounds better in Farsi?
I don't speak Farsi. I listened to his translations and he speaks a lot of wisdom. He encourages people to gain knowledge etc
In any case, like Bush, Ahmadinejad is simply a hypocrite. He whines constantly about foreign influence in Iran and the middle east while Iran bankrolls Hezbollah and Hamas. He whines about how the world should respect the democratic will of the people of Palestine and then blatantly steals elections in his own country.
There is really no evidence that he stole votes in the elections in his own country. Personally I do think they might have been suspicious activities within the elections, though I don't think Ahmadinejad was personally involved. If he was, shame on him.
Like Bush, he provocates and ignores other nations and then acts all hurt and insulted when other nations don't give him respect. He's a pedagogue and a tool.
Well I was pretty astounded how immature people reacted to him when he made statements about the Holocaust and he even admits he does not deny it four times.
If they were so upset, should it not be better to prove him wrong, then to insult him? One question he has asked time and time again is:
Europeans/Americans claim the Holocaust took place in Europe. So why is Palestine is suffering and are under brutal occupations? This is what he said:
format_quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
"If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanction
Some Atheists came to me, and made brutal allegations about Prophet Muhammed P.B.U.H. They said Muslims beat women up and oppress them. They were rude and arrogant, however instead throwing tantrum, I gave answers and had a friendly discussion with them.
So why can't Americans do the same? They have a brain and are able to speak intellectually, just like everyone else. Why insult, when you can prove him wrong?
But of course, there is one difference: Bush had real power, and Ahmadinejad does not. The real leader of Iran is the Ayatollah, a non-elected dictator who rules by theocracy.
Yes and that is scary to see someone like Bush with so much power and authority.
One difference between the two Presidents: Bush starts wars and kills thousands of innocent civilians. President of Iran does not wish to start wars and resolve matters through dialogue.
If America calms down, sit down and have a discussion, international relationships would have improved. President of Iran even wrote a letter to George Bush to resolve certain matters, and George Bush chosen to ignore him.
Last edited by GuestFellow; 06-15-2009 at 03:23 PM.
the US pretty much 'rejects' anything that doesnt tickle their fancy,so they can shove a sock up it.
Nicely put. ^_^
The American government need to mind their own business. They do more harm than good. They are the one which actually increase tension between countries.
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