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The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do! (OP)




    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!


    Changing Islam
    - Modernist Movements



    There are new movements under different titles today, with the aim of changing the Islam revealed to Prophet Muhammad, and the way his companions understood it.

    All of these groups have the same motives, but through different means. But they're main aim is to alter and make Islam a watered down religion, and they want to reach a target where Islam is purely secularistic [religion separate from politics, and your religion is only between 'you and God']. These groups are usually called 'Progressives', but alot of Muslims like to call them Modernists or even Regressives!, and many good Muslim 'ulama/scholars say they are disbelievers since they want to make the true Islam lower, and falsehood higher.


    Obviously, we all know there's a global warfare against Muslims. This isn't just for oil, and other resources of the Muslims, but its intent is to change Islam and destroy all those Muslims who want a Shari'a state [a state running under Islamic laws from Qur'an and Sunnah] or anything similar to it - where Islam affects the public lifestyle.





    Funding


    The USA, European nations, and other countries (who are naturally subservient to the USA, and Europe due to international pressures) are funding these organisations.



    There's 2 types of organisations who are funded;

    1) Those who criticize the pure Islam, such as the Qur'an and Sunnah. So you will see them attack Islam continuously through the media, and misquote verses and distort the meanings, and not allow Muslims to explain what is truly meant. Movements such as the Hadeeth Rejectors are also being funded for this purpose, because if you reject the Sunnah, you've rejected the biography of Allah's Messenger, and therefore you won't accept his life [which had a huge part where he fought against others who opposed him, and implemented Islam politically etc]. This is done to keep the Muslims in a state of fear from them, so we feel inferior and hopeless against them.


    2) The organisations who are payed to change the interpretation of these verses from Qur'an and Sunnah, so you'll see them changing the original verses of fighting and arguing that it's extreme, since we're all under global peace, and other emotional arguments. They will get payed to distort the meanings, and they will be funded to get promoted in the media in a good light. I.e. as Moderates etc.

    They are continuously being funded to make a new version of Islam, so you'll see that in Oxford university and other universities being built in Germany etc. - they are being funded in the millions to get all the 'great Muslim minds' of today and form a new interpretation of Islam which suits what we are explaining of Modernism, and then to teach these interpretations to the youth of tomorrow.


    To many innocent, but ignorant Muslims, they are glad - because they get a feeling of hope when the media says anything good about Islam. But this is intentionally done so Muslims feel good, but indirectly about a modernist movement. Muslims will be happy that someone is representing Islam as good, so the Muslim will look up and respect a figure without a beard, instead of a 'Mulla' who is fighting in Iraq who is too extreme [because the media says so.]

    Muslims who don't know their religion, you have to know your religion today to know what is truly right. Your ignorance is an advantage for them, but your knowledge is a sign of making your religion superior.



    So you see that they use a method of hope and fear for the Muslims, and these feelings we should be really giving to Allah firstly [of hope and fear]. Not to those who disbelieve and spread lies about Allah's religion, while pretending to make you feel happy about yourself.




    There's many examples to prove this;


    So you'll see that those who fight in Allah's cause to defend their own brothers and sisters, they'll be terrorists even in some ignorant Muslims eyes! Yet when a 'Muslim woman' is appointed as an Envoy for the American government, the Muslims rejoice.

    Obama is purposelly placed as a head for the USA, so the ignorant Muslims believe that its a 'new start' between the Muslim world and the Western world, when Allah informs us continuously in the Qur'an that the disbelievers won't be happy until you leave your religion [Al Baqara 2:120, Qalam 68:9].


    There are other neutral scenarios, like if you remember when the Muslim who gave 40$ as charity to the thief who wanted to steal from his shop, and the thief became Muslim due to the Muslims mercy. So the media will twist this and say that he was a Modernist Muslim - to portray their false views out of something good which a non modernist Sunni Muslim did.



    You're better off being accused of being Wahabbi, even if you're not.



    There's one more step which has been used continuously by these modernists, and this is by spreading names which don't really belong to someone to cause confusion amongst the Muslims themselves, so they don't know who is who.

    The classical one is Wahabbi, and I tell you this - if these movements term you as a wahabbi, then that is something good.

    Do you know the hadith about Dajjal showing hellfire in one hand and Paradise in the other? Which one did Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) tell us to jump into? The fire right? Since it is deception against you. So in this case, if a Wahabbi is someone who wants Muslims to fight in Allah's cause - to make Allah's religion the highest, and he wants the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger to be the highest, and they still call you Wahabbi [even if you disagree with 'their' beliefs] - then be pleased, because you are still following the more accurate Islam out of the two (moderate vs way of Companions of the Prophet.)

    They have also hijacked the term 'Salafis' and said that they are now moderates. So don't be fooled if you follow the Salafi dawah and they call you someone 'peaceful', only be pleased if they call you Wahabbi. And the reason for this is because they have continuously used this term since the time of the colonialsts as something bad, and they can't change this term for something good - otherwise the Muslims (who use this term against other Muslims) and Non Muslims [who hear it on the media] will start to doubt the medias shouts against Islam and become more confused




    So what should be done?


    1) You should learn your religion, from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Read the evidences, and try to find as much quotes of the companions of Prophet Muhammad, and the 3 best generations of the Muslims to understand the religion the best [Tafsir.com is a good site for this.]. Focus on these will make it more harder for the modernists to twist the facts. Whereas to read the Qur'an only without a true understanding of the companions of the Prophet, or the 3 best generations - will make you the lone sheep, prone to the attacks of the greedy wolves in our time who want to find any way to destroy the religion.


    2) We need to practise our religion fully. The biggest advantage for them is our ignorance of our religion, and the biggest threat to them is us practising our religion with knowledge.

    So you see that they cannot introduce their watered down version of Islam yet, since they have alot of work to do to actually produce a moderate version which can replace the original religion of Allah's Messenger, and the way his companions and the salaf [3 best generations of the Muslims] understood it.

    So during the time they are producing this watered down religion, they are trying to pressurise those who do follow Islam (i.e. see all the headlines on Niqab) in the true way and imprisoning or spoiling their reputation etc. All this is done to whittle down the number of true followers of the Sunnah [Prophetic way], so that by the time they introduce their watered down version of Islam - they can quickly get rid of them and force their moderate Islam onto the masses of ignorant Muslims.


    3) The more we practise our religion, the harder they will find it to introduce their watered down version of Islam, due to the opposition of those who follow the true Islam. So we need to keep firm, as a majority - who stick to the true Islam continuously, while teaching the true Islam to our children. Otherwise they will take advantage of that.


    4) We need to make du'a (prayer/supplication) to Allah to give us victory. The best weapon of the believer is prayer. The prayer can change destiny, so if we all prayed - Allah could change what happens in the future, but if we did not pray to Him - He may make the oppressors superior over us. If you love Allah's religion, then you will ask Him to protect it, and us.


    The Good News!

    We have Muslim Converts in the thousands today, yes - Muslims also give birth alot alhamdulillah, but we still have thousands of converts joining Islam today while the media and governments attack Islam from every side. So you need to teach your brothers and sisters who join the faith the true Islam. We see that many of their reputation is spoilt by the media, because they want to especially show the converts in a bad light. So you need to honour them, and love them so they are safe by the will of Allah, like the companions of the Prophet loved each other, even though they were from different classes, tribes and colours.

    Another piece of good news is that there is a revival of the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah, and the way of the companions and Salaf. This is good news because before Islam fell down and lost its Caliphate, most people only followed Islam on certain rituals, and that's about it. Most never knew the evidences of the religion, and had to just blindly follow anyone or anything. But then, when Islam was about to fall at its weakest level, Allah revived it so we see that whenever a non practising Muslim becomes practising, a Muslim shows him a verse from Qur'an or Sunnah on Allah's Mercy, and if a Convert becomes Muslim - you see that a Muslim shows him the hadith of 'Amr ibn al 'Aas all your past sins being forgiven after Islam. So you see, there's a revival of the true Islam, from its true sources, and a revival of its defense too from our own youth!


    One more good can be seen from 20 years ago, where fighting in the cause of Allah had died out.. only a small minority in the world was fighting, but through the likes of Abdullah Azzam, Allah revived it, like the Times newspaper said, that he was the reviver of Ji had in the 20th century. Now you hear of so much different groups throughout the world trying to establish an Islam on pure Qur'an and Sunnah, on the way of the companions. This wasn't happening 20 years ago, but now its flourishing; from Iraq, to Afghanistan, to Somalia, so that if one fails - anothers head rises. Yes, the brothers might make mistakes, but isn't it good that they are actually reviving Islam like we've always wanted? If Allah's Messenger told us that if 3 people set off on a journey, one should be the leader of them - then what about the obligation on having 1 leader for the whole ummah?! So forgive them, and have good thoughts about them, since Allah prefers those who fight in His cause more than those who sit at home [Tawba 9:20].




    You will be superior...



    So you see brothers and sisters, that Islam is becoming superior, a whole revival is going on around the world, and Islam is becoming higher, even though the disbelievers are trying to change it. Allah has promised to protect His religion,Indeed, Allah will surely support those who support Him (His cause).) (Quran Hajj 22:40) - so if you support His cause, He will aid you - so practise His original religion and call to it!

    “So do not weaken and do not grieve, and you will be superior if you are [true] believers.” [Quran 3: 139]

    So you will be superior, Allah will provide a way out - from ways we couldn't imagine - only, if we fulfill the conditions of being true believers.



    So he says [meaning];

    Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors.

    [Qur'an Nur 20:55]

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Religions change over time. I see this as a good thing. My favourite book on this subject is "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. I will encourage any reformers who seek to morph a religion into something more friendly and tolerant towards outsiders to itself and less interested in controlling others. I'll research these groups and depending on what I find maybe I'll make a donation.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Religions change over time. I see this as a good thing. My favourite book on this subject is "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. I will encourage any reformers who seek to morph a religion into something more friendly and tolerant towards outsiders to itself and less interested in controlling others. I'll research these groups and depending on what I find maybe I'll make a donation.
    How has Islam changed?
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Even Satan believes in Allah.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Same old, same old. This struggle between 'moderates' and 'conservatives' is as old as religion itself. Different interpretations, same religion.

    It's up to Muslim to decide who they want to follow I suppose.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid View Post
    How has Islam changed?
    What were you expecting honestly? some noetic resolution from a character who believes that doing charity means disseminating anti-religious rhetoric?

    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Same old, same old. This struggle between 'moderates' and 'conservatives' is as old as religion itself. Different interpretations, same religion.

    It's up to Muslim to decide who they want to follow I suppose.
    Its not about Moderates and conservatives its about Modernists. Even someone who can be defined as moderate can be conservative at the same time as Islam sees itself as the middle way.
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post
    What were you expecting honestly? some noetic resolution from a character who believes that doing charity means disseminating anti-religious rhetoric?

    If that is what he believes, then you're probably right.

    On a separate note sister, I have to keep a dictionary open in another tab everytime I read one of your posts. Learned a new word today, noetic.
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Even Satan believes in Allah.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    Its not about Moderates and conservatives its about Modernists. Even someone who can be defined as moderate can be conservative at the same time as Islam sees itself as the middle way.
    I still don't quite understand what people mean by 'Modernists' though. Are these people secretly atheist, but don't they dare say it? Or are they Muslims who genuinely believe Islam does not teach what people like Qatada say it teaches?
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince View Post
    there are many of them appearding in the mid-east too, some of these modernists in the mid-east even make the modernists in the west look extreme!
    Malaysia and Indonesia too...
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    I still don't quite understand what people mean by 'Modernists' though. Are these people secretly atheist, but don't they dare say it? Or are they Muslims who genuinely believe Islam does not teach what people like Qatada say it teaches?
    They are not atheists.. to be an atheist or a theist you have to put some thought into it..

    they are born of something but don't practice it..they are concerned with mundane affairs no more no less!
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    I'd say a modernist is a person willing to compromise their belief (knowingly or unknowingly) in an attempt to conform to their current culture. Their practice is not based on scripture but rather their current culture and its set of standards.
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by KAding View Post
    I still don't quite understand what people mean by 'Modernists' though. Are these people secretly atheist, but don't they dare say it? Or are they Muslims who genuinely believe Islam does not teach what people like Qatada say it teaches?
    Yeah I think the other posters gave good replies - But dont get mixed about Modernists with Moderates and Conservatives - as they can mean the same thing.

    format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid View Post
    I'd say a modernist is a person willing to compromise their belief (knowingly or unknowingly) in an attempt to conform to their current culture. Their practice is not based on scripture but rather their current culture and its set of standards.
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Religions change over time. I see this as a good thing.
    care to elaborate on how this is a good thing? What is a religion: a custom food recipe whose ingredients change or should change from time to time and place to place to please the taste of people? Why should it change? Or if it changes what is evidence that it has changed for better?
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    I don't want to start a long discussion on how Islam in particular has changed over time, as I'm no expert in it. I did point you guys to a book "A history of God" by Karen Armstrong (who IS an expert in it). If you are interested in seeing how the 3 abrahamic religions have changed over time I highly recommend it.

    As for things changing for the better, I suppose that depends entirely on perspective. I see religions changing to be less aggressive, less violent and less intolerant towards other religions and non-adherents. Christianity over the ages is a great case in point.
    Last edited by Pygoscelis; 07-11-2009 at 04:46 AM.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife View Post
    care to elaborate on how this is a good thing? What is a religion: a custom food recipe whose ingredients change or should change from time to time and place to place to please the taste of people? Why should it change? Or if it changes what is evidence that it has changed for better?
    Religions should change as the times change, the world changes, and people change. Such change is quite possible even within a framework of divinely revealed scripture (although it is easier without it), and occurs on a small scale each and every time such scripture is 'interpreted'.

    The absence of such change means stagnation and, ultimately, irrelevance.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    As for things changing for the better, I suppose that depends entirely on perspective. I see religions changing to be less aggressive, less violent and less intolerant towards other religions and non-adherents. Christianity over the ages is a great case in point.
    Totally agree.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    As for things changing for the better, I suppose that depends entirely on perspective. I see religions changing to be less aggressive, less violent and less intolerant towards other religions and non-adherents. Christianity over the ages is a great case in point.
    Thats because christainty got downplayed heavily - Now we have other systems that are creating the violence.
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble View Post
    Religions should change as the times change, the world changes, and people change. Such change is quite possible even within a framework of divinely revealed scripture (although it is easier without it), and occurs on a small scale each and every time such scripture is 'interpreted'.

    The absence of such change means stagnation and, ultimately, irrelevance.
    Then soon it'll turn out like Christianity and other religions like it. When that happens, people will still be saying what you and the rest of those like you are saying. So no, I don't think so.

    Stagnation and irrelevance because it won't be according to the whims of man. Wish as you may, but its ridiculous.
    The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    As for things changing for the better, I suppose that depends entirely on perspective. I see religions changing to be less aggressive, less violent and less intolerant towards other religions and non-adherents. Christianity over the ages is a great case in point.
    Islam has been at that tolerant, non-aggressive, non-violent etc stage since its inception and notably during Europe's Dark Ages (meanwhile, Muslim lands were full of scientific and mathematical advances, were protecting and gathering books etc). Islam does not need to change. Certain Muslims do.
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin View Post
    Islam has been at that tolerant, non-aggressive, non-violent etc stage since its inception and notably during Europe's Dark Ages (meanwhile, Muslim lands were full of scientific and mathematical advances, were protecting and gathering books etc). Islam does not need to change. Certain Muslims do.
    salaam

    well said - I agree.

    I'll also like to add also in the Ottoman empire.

    peace
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin View Post
    Islam has been at that tolerant, non-aggressive, non-violent etc stage since its inception and notably during Europe's Dark Ages (meanwhile, Muslim lands were full of scientific and mathematical advances, were protecting and gathering books etc). Islam does not need to change. Certain Muslims do.

    So how Islam spread during Medieval ? By Islamicboard?
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    Re: The Modernist Threat, and What YOU can do!

    ^^you can use the search feature.. The topic is covered quite extensively from Arabia, to Persia to southeast Asia and Spain!

    all the best
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