China Outraged Over Nobel Peace Prize Selection

**titus** · 10-11-2010

China has lashed out at the Nobel Peace Prize committee after it awarded this year's prize to jailed Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo, who has long called for political reform in the country.

The Chinese government's reaction was swift and unequivocal. A statement on the Chinese Foreign Ministry's website called the award "an obscenity" that goes against the aims of the award. It warned the award also will hurt China's relations with Norway, the country where the Nobel Committee is based.

The statement expressing the Chinese government's anger was carried on the Foreign Ministry's Webpage and aimed at outsiders.

Other than that, the news of the Nobel Peace prize going to Liu Xiaobo was not carried in Chinese media, and broadcasts of international TV channels carrying the news were temporarily cut. Internet users could find information about it on the Internet, but only if they used proxies to get around cyber-blocks the Chinese government maintains to filter out information that it deems sensitive or illegal.

SOURCE

Such is life under one party rule.

**Argamemnon** · 10-12-2010

The nobel peace prize is just another western political tool, it has nothing to do with promoting peace. In the U.S. people like Norman Finkelstein always lose their career or they are threatened by the CIA, or forced to resign. There is no freedom of speech in the west; there is only freedom to bash and demonize China, Iran and other non-western nations and cultures. When will the West stop imposing their chaotic, fractious, and self-interested Western model of governance upon China and other nations? Mind your own business people. Also, stop talking about "human rights". We all know what your "civilization" (!) is doing in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. You are fooling nobody (except the fools)....

**tango92** · 10-12-2010

as usual the west attemptimg to destroy a nation internally. i wonder how much green they put into the hands of the prize commity?

**titus** · 10-12-2010

So you two have an issue with the Nobel committee, but none with the way China has imprisoned this man?

And to compare Liu Xiaobo with Finkelstein is a joke. One has had to face criticism from the public and lost some tenure at his teaching job, the other had his own government arrest him for creating a petition.

There is no freedom of speech in the west; there is only freedom to bash and demonize China, Iran and other non-western nations and cultures.

So you think that if a charter, like the one he is in jail for, was created in the United States that the person who created it would be jailed?

And do you think if that happened, and that person won the Nobel prize, that the US government would ban the press from reporting it?

If so then your perception of the US is completely different than reality.

**جوري** · 10-12-2010

The problem is in reporting world's news in such a manner that appears more and more like a personal opinion rather than facts makes the rest of us un-interested in reading!
I have seldom seen the Nobel Prize go to deserving characters (admittedly I don't know much about the Chinese guy) but from a long history of awards to undeserving criminals- I'd say the prize means positively nothing. A guy who invented dynamite I suppose wanted to pass the torch down to like minded remorseful malefactors!

**Ramadhan** · 10-13-2010

For most of its history, the nobel peace prize has always been used as political tool, and the biggest joke of all must be when they awarded henry kissinger the prize.
Kissinger has more blood on his hand than any other person, with the exception of stalin.
He was awarded the nobel peace prize in 1973, along with le duc tho, and while duc tho had the decency to reject the award, kissinger accepted the award with "humility".

**سيف الله** · 10-13-2010

Salaam

Yeah if you look at the people who get it, its no great prize.

I mean Obama, what did he get it for? For not being George Bush? Come on

The idea of the award is generally good (if you read Nobels actual words regarding the award it makes sense), but more often than not its used as a political weapon by the powerful.

Having said all that this doesnt detract from the terrible way the dissident has been treated.

**Lynx** · 10-13-2010

China is funny.
They should realize Western democracy is going to overrun them eventually; it's human nature. They've already basically accepted the free market system of the West and that's essentially more than half way there ~.~

**Zafran** · 10-13-2010

Originally Posted by Lynx

China is funny.
They should realize Western democracy is going to overrun them eventually; it's human nature. They've already basically accepted the free market system of the West and that's essentially more than half way there ~.~

They are very different things - many nations have accepted the free market - But the system of governance has been and still is different from western democracy. There are few countries that dont have a free market system.

I'll question the idea of western democracy being "human nature" - that type of rhetoric can be scary - especially seeing whats happening in Iraq and Afghainstan.

**Lynx** · 10-13-2010

Originally Posted by Zafran

They are very different things - many nations have accepted the free market - But the system of governance has been and still is different from western democracy. There are few countries that dont have a free market system.

It's true a democracy is different from free markets; China is a fine example. However, I'd argue that without a free market you couldn't have a Western Democracy which is what I mean by 'half way there'. The necessary component is being fulfilled!

I'll question the idea of western democracy being "human nature" - that type of rhetoric can be scary - especially seeing whats happening in Iraq and Afghainstan.

Iraq & Afghanistan are in a state of war and have not developed their democracies. I mean, Afghanistan doesn't even have a government. The people who run the country are all drug dealers, and the people who want to kick out the NATO forces are too incompetent to run a country; neither are representative of the indigenous population.

In a place like China where economic stability is already there or at least getting there, western democracy would work just fine IMO. It's just that with globalization and all there's little the Chinese can do to curb the natural desire of humans to be free from unnecessary oppression; you can only shelter your country so much in this increasingly shrinking world.

**Trumble** · 10-13-2010

Originally Posted by tango92

as usual the west attemptimg to destroy a nation internally. i wonder how much green they put into the hands of the prize commity?

Erm, OK...

Chinese veteran politicians call for reform

A group of 23 Communist Party elders in China has written a letter calling for an end to the country's restrictions on freedom of speech. The letter says freedom of expression is promised in the Chinese constitution but not allowed in practice. They want people to be able to freely express themselves on the internet and want more respect for journalists.

The call comes just days after the Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo was awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize. Mr Liu was sent to prison for 11 years in 2009 for expressing his desire to see peaceful political change in China. The letter's release also comes ahead of a key party meeting that is expected to promote future leaders and shape policy for the next few years.

The authors of the letter describe China's current censorship system as a scandal and an embarrassment. Many who signed the letter were once influential officials. One author is a former personal secretary to the revolutionary leader Mao Zedong and a former editor of the official People's Daily newspaper. They make eight specific demands - all designed to enhance Chinese people's right to express themselves in public.

**Argamemnon** · 10-13-2010

So you two have an issue with the Nobel committee, but none with the way China has imprisoned this man?

So you have no problem with your government's unconditional support for that illegal Zionist entity and brutal invasions and massacres in Iraq and Afghanistan? So you have no problem with your troops mass raping Iraqi and Afghani girls and women, but you have serious issues with this Chinese man's "freedom of speech"? You don't have any problem whatsoever with the systematic torture policy of your rogue goverment either, do you?

Who are you to criticize, who do you think you are?

“US Following Systematic Torture Policy”

http://tassc.org/blog/?page_id=1297

**titus** · 10-13-2010

So you have no problem with your government's unconditional support for that illegal Zionist entity and brutal invasions and massacres in Iraq and Afghanistan?

If you want to discuss that then go ahead and do it on another thread. The US is not even involved in this thread as it is about the Nobel prize and China.

China imprisons a man for creating what is basically a petition, and you spend your effort criticizing the group that gives him an award instead of the government that imprisoned him and is trying to keep their population ignorant of it.

So you have no problem with your troops mass raping Iraqi and Afghani girls and women, but you have serious issues with this Chinese man's "freedom of speech"? You don't have any problem whatsoever with the systematic torture policy of your rogue goverment either, do you?

Your anger is misdirected and your accusations are made out of ignorance. If you want to know how I feel about those issues then ask me. Don't assume and point fingers.

If you want my feelings on such issues start a thread and ask me.

Until then, maybe you can explain to us why you feel that the Chinese government is acting properly in this situation. Explain how you believe this man should be imprisoned, and how the Chinese government shouldn't be criticized for filtering the press and the internet about news of this.

**Zafran** · 10-13-2010

Originally Posted by Lynx

It's true a democracy is different from free markets; China is a fine example. However, I'd argue that without a free market you couldn't have a Western Democracy which is what I mean by 'half way there'. The necessary component is being fulfilled!

Iraq & Afghanistan are in a state of war and have not developed their democracies. I mean, Afghanistan doesn't even have a government. The people who run the country are all drug dealers, and the people who want to kick out the NATO forces are too incompetent to run a country; neither are representative of the indigenous population.

In a place like China where economic stability is already there or at least getting there, western democracy would work just fine IMO. It's just that with globalization and all there's little the Chinese can do to curb the natural desire of humans to be free from unnecessary oppression; you can only shelter your country so much in this increasingly shrinking world.

You have to remember the excuses the Nato forces use to invade Afghanistan or the UK and US for Iraq - its to give them western democrcay or as you would say back to there "human nature" - and if bombs and guns have to be used so be it - Besides NATO is only dragging them back to "human nature", right?

**Trumble** · 10-13-2010

Originally Posted by Zafran

You have remember the excuses the Nato forces use to invade Afghanistan or the UK and US for Iraq - its to give them western democrcay or as you would say back to there "human nature" - and if bombs and guns have to be used so be it - Besides NATO is only dragging them back to "human nature", right?

That wasn't the reason/excuse in either instance. And, as has been said, it has no relevance to China whatsoever.

**Zafran** · 10-13-2010

Originally Posted by Trumble

That wasn't the reason/excuse in either instance. And, as has been said, it has no relevance to China whatsoever.

was I talking to you? I dont think I was.

**Lynx** · 10-14-2010

Originally Posted by Zafran

You have remember the excuses the Nato forces use to invade Afghanistan or the UK and US for Iraq - its to give them western democrcay or as you would say back to there "human nature" - and if bombs and guns have to be used so be it - Besides NATO is only dragging them back to "human nature", right?

The process to developing a 'free' state is long and complex but IMO inevitable. The way the NATO forces are 'forcing' these freedoms in countries that are not ready for them is wrong and stupid. China is much farther ahead in that process.

**Trumble** · 10-14-2010

Originally Posted by Zafran

was I talking to you? I dont think I was.

You are posting on an open forum, and therefore talking to everyone reading it. If you wish to communicate privately, use the PM system.

**Zafran** · 10-14-2010

Originally Posted by Trumble

You are posting on an open forum, and therefore talking to everyone reading it. If you wish to communicate privately, use the PM system.

I was specifically replying to Lynx and what he said about western democracy being "human nature" - You need to actually read the posts next time rater then jumping on the reply button.

**Lynx** · 10-14-2010

Originally Posted by Zafran

I was specifically replying to Lynx and what he said about western democracy being "human nature" - You need to actually read the posts next time rater then jumping on the reply button.

Western democracy isn't human nature.Desire to be from oppression is human nature. I clarified in this post:

In a place like China where economic stability is already there or at least getting there, western democracy would work just fine IMO. It's just that with globalization and all there's little the Chinese can do to curb the natural desire of humans to be free from unnecessary oppression; you can only shelter your country so much in this increasingly shrinking world.