The following post in another thread spurs the question around which I hope we can focus discussion in this thread:
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
That depends on your definition of modernization of course. Islam has the ability to adapt to all ages and changes because it's the truth revealed by Allah. If modernization means changing the fundamentals of Islam (to please others or for whatever reason), then no. If modernization means correcting wrong beliefs and traditions, which were actually never part of Islam in the first place, but added later (which most Muslims are unaware of), then yes. But that's a seperate topic altogether.
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What do you think? Can Islam be modernized? Should it be? Is it wrong, and based on a false assumption, to suggest that it isn't already modernized?
Now to be clear, I'm not talking about technology or the difference between 1st and 3rd worlds. Nor am I focusing on politics nor any country's foreign policy, though I suspect some will see these things as tying in to the discussion. Rather, I am thinking in terms of ideas, especially those that emerged from what was known as the Age of Englightenment in Europe, such as: the rights of people to redress their government; the recognition of a public sphere in which discourse could take place, and the toleration of opposing views so as to allow for that discourse; democracy as a model for the adminstration of government.
One could expand this to include ideas that followed in what is less well-known as the Age of Modernity. Ideas such as the rights of workers to form together in unions; the equal status before the law of men and women; the equality of races; redistribution of both national wealth and political power to those who are without; education for the masses; that opportunity to advance one's self, to breathe clean air and drink clean water are also rights; that the natural world itself needs protecting from human exploitation.
Now to be clear, I'm not talking about technology or the difference between 1st and 3rd worlds. Nor am I focusing on politics nor any country's foreign policy, though I suspect some will see these things as tying in to the discussion. Rather, I am thinking in terms of ideas, especially those that emerged from what was known as the Age of Englightenment in Europe, such as: the rights of people to redress their government; the recognition of a public sphere in which discourse could take place, and the toleration of opposing views so as to allow for that discourse; democracy as a model for the adminstration of government.
One could expand this to include ideas that followed in what is less well-known as the Age of Modernity. Ideas such as the rights of workers to form together in unions; the equal status before the law of men and women; the equality of races; redistribution of both national wealth and political power to those who are without; education for the masses; that opportunity to advance one's self, to breathe clean air and drink clean water are also rights; that the natural world itself needs protecting from human exploitation.
First of all, i appreciate you for asking this question.
Islam is the Way of Life. The Glorious Quran was not revealed for a particular age or time. It is meant for the Whole of Mankind, of any century, whether it be 2011 or 2050!! According to your explanation of "modernization", The Holy Quran and the teachings of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him) already discuss these issues in detail. Therefore, Islam is COMPLETE. I do not think that adjectives like "modernized" are even required to describe it. I would like to quote the following references from The Glorious Quran and The teachings of the Prophet Muhammad SAW;
1) Education-
the first verse to be revealed to the Prophet Muhammad was "Iqra" which means "Read". (Noble Qur'an 96:1) . this itself emphasises on the importance of Education.
2) Equality of men and women-
Allah (SWT) says in Surat Al-Hujurat, "O Mankind! We have created you from a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you in the sight of Allah is he who has most Taqwa among of you. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware." (Noble Qur'an 49:13)
The Lord of the Worlds has created Men and Women to play different roles in life. The role of man is to provide protection and maintenance to a woman and the role of a woman is to receive these to be successful in her duties.
“Men have authority over women, on account of that by means of which Allah has made the one of them excel the other, and on account of what they spend out of their property..” (4:34)
"Men have authority over women " means that Men are the protectors and maintainers of women. Allah has made the men excel in terms of physical abilities and mental/emotional strength. This is so proven by Science.
3)Rights of the workers- the Messenger of ALLAH (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him) said: “Give the worker his wages before his sweat dries.” (Ibn Maajah:2443)
There is much more information that i would like to post. Do let me know if you need any more clarifications.
Grace Seeker, you might enjoy a video I posted a while back that tackled a somewhat similar topic. I'll link you to it here, and if you find the time to watch it (or even just parts of it, as it's fairly long...) I'd love to hear what you think about it.
Anyway, as for your question... It obviously depends what you mean by modernization. Changing fundamental principles is probably not going to happen (nor does it need to happen), but in other regards, I think some change needs to take place. For one thing, I've noticed that many people take very old ideas/rulings that were made at a certain time, under certain contexts/circumstances, and they try to apply them to modern life in the Western world. This could happen due to misunderstandings of meaning or context (which seems to be the case for many readings of Hadith by us lay people), or just because nobody has bothered to look at issues in light of the "modern world".
So yes, we need modernization in the sense that we need our scholars to sit down and begin to look at things from the perspective of our current times... A reinterpretation of texts should take place that views them in light of the world as it is now... I know people might freak out when I use the word "reinterpretation", but it's not like I'm not implying that Islam is wrong... Just that certain rulings/understandings were for certain times, and that much of Islamic law is more like a guideline (at least, based on the little I know), and so it is flexible enough to adapt and address the needs of any time, and any group. The problem is, we haven't had our scholars focus on helping us understand how these guidelines and rules should be understood in light of modernity, and so you have many people holding positions that would have been perfectly valid hundreds of years ago, but that don't really apply anymore...
Ah, I hope that made sense... I should sum it up just in case: Basically my point was that we need a new wave of scholarship to go over things in light of our times, so in that respect we do need to "modernize" Islam.
Can you please give us examples of what you think applied in the past which does not need to be applied now?
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
Pretty sure when Islam came, it Modernized civilization. We aren't where we were many centuries ago, but our system can never fail us, it's just the people who apply it in their own way that can.
Basically, the corrupt Leaders who want their own benefit in things hurt the progression of the Muslim Ummah. There was a time where there was money being heavily funded in Universities and places of education and people from all around the world used to come to the Muslims for answers, but that all changed once leaders and people turned away from the Creator and decided to gain their own power, their own way of doing things, money going into wars and military, thats when the Great empire fell. I don't see it as an coincidence that there's so much problem happening in the world today, especially in the Muslim lands.
I am sure things will change once people decide to change themselves, as the Quran tells us to.
Last edited by Perseveranze; 03-15-2011 at 12:23 AM.
the rights of people to redress their government; the recognition of a public sphere in which discourse could take place, and the toleration of opposing views so as to allow for that discourse; democracy as a model for the adminstration of government
Before the modern age most Islamic government leaders were elected, and they have a history of being very tolerant of opposing views and of homosexuality. It was only after the Ottoman emprire adopted European views that they began suppressing opposing views.
The school that I have taken online courses at in Pakistan is Salafi, and educates that we should follow only the word of Allah in the infallible Qur'an and our Prophet (saw). I consider them to be a very modern school, in a very traditional manner; they teach that there is nothing that needs to be "modernized" in Islam, as the word of Allah is perfect as it is - it is the interpretations of later peoples who have, in a sense, held back some Muslims from "getting with the times".
Islam is perfect. To change anything that is perfect is to make it imperfect. If you cannot find the answer in Islam, it is because you do not know where to look, not because the answer is not there. You have to live Islam to find the answers. Insha Allah.
Interesting question. I think our answers will vary based upon how each of us understand what is meant by modernizing. I may see things different than the way others do. But I see the question as being "Can Modernization adapt to Islam?"
I believe that can be done as virtually all things in this world can be used in either a haram or halal way. The choice is ours. We should not shun something simply because it is modern or a modern thought. We should instead seek a way to use the modernization of mankind as a means to better serve Allaah(swt). We need avoid only that which is haram, if it is halal and of benefit, use it.
Quran provides the best principles necessary for human's personal and social life.Because Quran is not the philosophy of a human mind.Quran is the word of the Creator of Universe who knows the true nature of humanity.This is the Qur’an’s youth. It preserves its freshness and youth every age as though newly revealed. In fact, the Qur’an has to have perpetual youth since as a pre-eternal address, it addresses at once all the levels of mankind in every age. And that is how it has been seen and is seen. Even, although all the centuries are different with regard to ideas and capacity, it as though looks to each particularly, and teaches it. Man’s works and laws grow old like man, they change and are changed. But the rulings and laws of the Qur’an are so firm and well-founded that they increase in strength as the centuries pass.
This fact is proven in Risale-i Nur by Scholar Bediuzzaman Said Nursi.Here is just a small comparison:
For example, despite all its societies for good works, all its establishments for the teaching of ethics, all its severe discipline and regulations, civilization has been unable to contest the All-Wise Qur’an on two of its matters, and has been defeated by them. These two matters are:
"Be steadfast in performing the prayers, and give zakat," Qur’an, 2:43,
and,
"God has permitted trade and forbidden usury." Qur’an, 2:275.
Just as the source of mankind’s revolutions is one phrase, so another phrase is the origin of all immorality.
First Phrase: “So long as I’m full, what is it to me if others die of hunger.”
Second Phrase: “You work so that I can eat.”
Yes, the upper and lower classes in human society, that is, the rich and the poor, live at peace when in equilibrium. The basis of that equilibrium is compassion and kindness in the upper classes, and respect and obedience in the lower classes. Now, the first phrase has incited the upper classes to practise oppression, immorality, and mercilessness. And just as the second has driven the lower classes to hatred, envy, and to contend the upper classes, and has negated man’s tranquillity for several centuries, so too this century, as the result of the struggle between capital and labour, it has been the cause of the momentous events of Europe well-known by all. Thus, together with all its societies for good works, all its establishments for the teaching of ethics, all its severe discipline and regulations, it could not reconcile these two classes of mankind, nor could it heal the two fearsome wounds in human life. The Qur’an, however, eradicates the first phrase with its injunction to pay zakat, and heals it. While it uproots the second phrase with its prohibition on usury and interest, and cures that. Indeed, the Qur’anic verse stands at the door of the world and declares usury and interest to be forbidden. It reads out its decree to mankind, saying: “In order to close the door of strife, close the door of usury and interest!” It forbids its students to enter it.
“An hour’s reflective thought is better than a year’s worship” Hadith
"We Muslims, who are students of the Qur’an, follow proof; we approach the truths of belief through reason, thought, and our hearts. " Bediuzzaman Said Nursi
Islam is perfect. Everything in it is clear.
As for modernization, I think as time is changing, we are also changing with it.
So I don't think modernization fits in.
Islam is perfect. To change anything that is perfect is to make it imperfect. If you cannot find the answer in Islam, it is because you do not know where to look, not because the answer is not there. You have to live Islam to find the answers. Insha Allah.
No it isn’t, if Islam (the Qu’ran and Hadith) is perfect why does it need interpretation. Surely something that is perfect doesn’t need explanation. Something requiring interpretation and explanation is something which is unclear or ambiguous; something that is unclear and ambiguous can’t be perfect.
No it isn’t, if Islam (the Qu’ran and Hadith) is perfect why does it need interpretation. Surely something that is perfect doesn’t need explanation. Something requiring interpretation and explanation is something which is unclear or ambiguous; something that is unclear and ambiguous can’t be perfect.
So tell me, why do teaches teach Math? Why is anything taught, if explanation isn't needed?
Why does Law and constitution need to be interpreted according to the context of a situation?
If you agree that interpretation is required - then the same is said about Guidance from God.
No it isn’t, if Islam (the Qu’ran and Hadith) is perfect why does it need interpretation
Islam is perfect. However, you and I are not. So Islam has to be explained and interpreted for us. Just because you and I are not perfect has absolutely no bearing on the perfection of Islam. As a very rough analogy, just because, say, nuclear physics, is incomprehensible, perhaps, to you does not prove that nuclear physics is just a bunch of baloney.
So tell me, why do teaches teach Math? Why is anything taught, if explanation isn't needed?
Why does Law and constitution need to be interpreted according to the context of a situation?
If you agree that interpretation is required - then the same is said about Guidance from God.
Maths, like many things, is a tool or methodology used to solve problems. Any methodology or skill needs to be explained / taught and learned. If I was your maths teacher and used confusing and contradictory language in teaching you maths it is likely that you would not understand and I would be described as a bad teacher. The Qur’an is a message, it is supposed to be the teacher telling us what we should do / how we should do it (if you like telling us how to solve the problem). The Qur’an isn’t supposed to be the problem it is supposed to be the solution. If you can’t understand the solution because it is so ambiguous it needs explaining it is not a good solution and consequenty the person delivering that solution could be described as bad teacher.
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