US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed with photos of murdered civilians

Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by LavaDog

..I do want to point out that 99 percent of the guys over there are trying to help as much as they can and would never hurt civilians.

how do u know ?

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam

how do u know ?

Salaam,

Not all soldiers are the same. Some joined the army because they wanted to help their country but did not realise they were being misled. I'm certain there are soldiers that truly regret what they have done. Other soldiers wanted revenge after 9/11. There are mercenaries hired by the US government like Blackwater and are protected against criminal prosecution.

So it is a lot more complicated and generalising does not give an accurate picture.

format_quote Originally Posted by Junon

Salaam

Kill teams in Afghanistan: the truth

These disgusting photos of murdered Afghans reveal the aggression and racism underpinning the occupation of my country


By Malalai Joya

The disgusting and heartbreaking photos published last week in the German media, and more recently in Rolling Stone magazine, are finally bringing the grisly truth about the war in Afghanistan to a wider public. All the PR about this war being about democracy and human rights melts into thin air with the pictures of US soldiers posing with the dead and mutilated bodies of innocent Afghan civilians.

I must report that Afghans do not believe this to be a story of a few rogue soldiers. We believe that the brutal actions of these "kill teams" reveal the aggression and racism which is part and parcel of the entire military occupation. While these photos are new, the murder of innocents is not. Such crimes have sparked many protests in Afghanistan and have sharply raised anti-American sentiment among ordinary Afghans.

I am not surprised that the mainstream media in the US has been reluctant to publish these images of the soldiers who made sport out of murdering Afghans. General Petraeus, now in charge of the American-led occupation, is said to place great importance on the "information war" for public opinion – and there is a concerted effort to keep the reality of Afghanistan out of sight in the US.

Last week my initial application for a US entry visa was turned down, and so my book tour was delayed while supporters demanded my right to enter the country. The American government was pressed to relent and allow my visit to go ahead. Ultimately it too will be unable to block out the truth about the war in Afghanistan.

The "kill team" images will come as a shock to many outside Afghanistan but not to us. We have seen countless incidents of American and Nato forces killing innocent people like birds. For instance, they recently killed nine children in Kunar Province who were collecting firewood. In February this year they killed 65 innocent villagers, most of them women and children. In this case, as in many others, Nato claimed that they had only killed insurgents, even though local authorities acknowledged that the victims were civilians. To prevent the facts coming out they even arrested two journalists from al-Jazeera who attempted to visit and report from the site of the massacre.

Successive US officials have said that they will safeguard civilians and that they will be more careful, but in fact they are only more careful in their efforts to cover up their crimes and suppress reporting of them. The US and Nato, along with the office of the UN's assistance mission in Afghanistan, usually give statistics about civilian deaths that underestimate the numbers. The reality is that President Obama's so-called surge has only led to a surge of violence from all sides, and civilian deaths have increased.

The occupying armies have tried to buy off the families of their victims, offering $2,000 for each one killed. Afghans' lives are cheap for the US and Nato, but no matter how much they offer, we don't want their blood money.

rest here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...afghanistan-us

Not a pleasant sight for NATO fans and sellouts/traitors, I'd like to see anyone try and show me those false statistics from NATO or the UN again

This verse is for the traitors and sellouts who will believe anything coming from the warmongers themselves:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done 49:6

Really shocking news I hope they experience the same pain they inflicted on others.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

That said, before declaring who the 'real terrorists' are;



SOURCE

Not a pleasant sight for Tali-fans, I'm afraid. And they don't even have some of the same 'collateral damage' excuses; these deaths were deliberate, close up and personal.

As for



I think the above shows how much priority 'afghani independent fighters' really give 'the welfare of their own people'. What a joke.

What exactly does this show? Invade a country, remove the government, kill as many people are you want. Obviously destabilizing the entire region had nothing to do with it! It's those violent Afghans again. It must be nice in your world Trumble.

edit: read the whole study on the site and edited accordingly.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless

It's those violent Afghans again.

I just wanted to say something on this... Even for those of you who, for some reason, support the Taliban... You should keep in mind that they alone do not represent the Afghan people as a whole. I've even heard some people refer to them as 'freedom fighters'... But Afghanistan doesn't just have one group of freedom fighters... Many of the real freedom fighters that fought against the soviets and other invasions were NOT Taliban, and from what I know, they are still not Taliban and remain opposed to them... I'm shaky on my Afghan history, but I'm pretty sure this is the case in most accounts.

I'm basically just trying to say that things aren't super black and white. There are many groups in Afghanistan who would like power.. It's been that way for a while. But the bottom line is, we're not there and even the most educated of us doesn't really know the situation. It's best to avoid taking the side of a group you know nothing about.

But yeah, continue the discussion. Just wanted tot get that out there.


EDIT: Also, to the mods in general... Could you please not delete every response that makes you slightly uncomfortable? I just noticed that a post I made earlier in this thread has been removed.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion

I just wanted to say something on this... Even for those of you who, for some reason, support the Taliban... You should keep in mind that they alone do not represent the Afghan people as a whole. I've even heard some people refer to them as 'freedom fighters'... But Afghanistan doesn't just have one group of freedom fighters... Many of the real freedom fighters that fought against the soviets and other invasions were NOT Taliban, and from what I know, they are still not Taliban and remain opposed to them... I'm shaky on my Afghan history, but I'm pretty sure this is the case in most accounts.

I'm basically just trying to say that things aren't super black and white. There are many groups in Afghanistan who would like power.. It's been that way for a while. But the bottom line is, we're not there and even the most educated of us doesn't really know the situation. It's best to avoid taking the side of a group you know nothing about.

But yeah, continue the discussion. Just wanted tot get that out there.


EDIT: Also, to the mods in general... Could you please not delete every response that makes you slightly uncomfortable? I just noticed that a post I made earlier in this thread has been removed.

I did not use the word 'taliban', and I did not take the side of any group. I do, however, disagree with some of what you've said, but that's for another thread.

^ I agree that there are several groups in Afghanistan and have different motives. The US government has labeled them all Taliban which makes it difficult to find out what is going on.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless

I did not use the word 'taliban', and I did not take the side of any group. I do, however, disagree with some of what you've said, but that's for another thread.

My post wasn't really directed at just you though... I just used your post to get into a few point I thought would be relevant.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless

What exactly does this show? Invade a country, remove the government, kill as many people are you want. Obviously destabilizing the entire region had nothing to do with it! It's those violent Afghans again. It must be nice in your world Trumble.

Your comprehension problems seem even more acute than usual. Actually it shows that in the first six months of 2010;

1,271 civilians were killed in conflict in Afghanistan. Of those, 920 were killed by anti-government forces (i.e. Taliban), 223 by pro-government forces (i.e. Afghan government and US/Allied troops), those resposnsible for the balance being undetermined.

3,268 civilians were either killed or wounded. Of those, anti-government forces were responsible for 2,447, pro-government forces for 386, the balance being undetermined.

Of the civilian deaths caused by the Taliban, 183 were the result of suicide bombers, 183 by execution or assassination, 374 by IEDs and the rest by other means.

If you and others here prefer to just stick your proverbial fingers in your ears and sing 'la la la', or mutter about 'false statistics' and 'sellouts and traitors' so be it. One simple fact is that the Taliban are actually responsible for three times as many civilian deaths as Afghan government and Allied forces. That's THREE TIMES AS MANY. Get over it. The other equally simple fact is if that the Americans left tomorrow, the civil war would go on and yet more civilians would die. But if the Taliban laid down their weapons and chose to pursue their cause by political means the war would be over the same day. But they know the 'sellouts and traitors' are, in fact, the majority of Afghan citizens WHO DO NOT WANT THEM, so perpetuating the war is the only chance they have of grabbing the power they crave.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Your comprehension problems seem even more acute than usual. Actually it shows that in the first six months of 2010;

1,271 civilians were killed in conflict in Afghanistan. Of those, 920 were killed by anti-government forces (i.e. Taliban), 223 by pro-government forces (i.e. Afghan government and US/Allied troops), those resposnsible for the balance being undetermined.

3,268 civilians were either killed or wounded. Of those, anti-government forces were responsible for 2,447, pro-government forces for 386, the balance being undetermined.

Of the civilian deaths caused by the Taliban, 183 were the result of suicide bombers, 183 by execution or assassination, 374 by IEDs and the rest by other means.

If you and others here prefer to just stick your proverbial fingers in your ears and sing 'la la la', or mutter about 'false statistics' and 'sellouts and traitors' so be it. One simple fact is that the Taliban are actually responsible for three times as many civilian deaths as Afghan government and Allied forces. That's THREE TIMES AS MANY. Get over it. The other equally simple fact is if that the Americans left tomorrow, the civil war would go on and yet more civilians would die. But if the Taliban laid down their weapons and chose to pursue their cause by political means the war would be over the same day. But they know the 'sellouts and traitors' are, in fact, the majority of Afghan citizens WHO DO NOT WANT THEM, so perpetuating the war is the only chance they have of grabbing the power they crave.

Did you read what I wrote? Stating the numbers again doesn't make your argument stronger (or should I say weaker). Yes if the everyone left tomorrow more civilians would die, but don't you think that may have something to do with the 9 previous years of killing people, abusing a country, and destabilizing a region? Which was actually exactly what I wrote before (comprehension problems?). Go kick a wasps nest and then do a pretty little graph about the violent tendencies of wasps.

Okay, lets all remain calm.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

Your comprehension problems seem even more acute than usual. Actually it shows that in the first six months of 2010;

1,271 civilians were killed in conflict in Afghanistan. Of those, 920 were killed by anti-government forces (i.e. Taliban), 223 by pro-government forces (i.e. Afghan government and US/Allied troops), those resposnsible for the balance being undetermined.

3,268 civilians were either killed or wounded. Of those, anti-government forces were responsible for 2,447, pro-government forces for 386, the balance being undetermined.

Of the civilian deaths caused by the Taliban, 183 were the result of suicide bombers, 183 by execution or assassination, 374 by IEDs and the rest by other means.

If you and others here prefer to just stick your proverbial fingers in your ears and sing 'la la la', or mutter about 'false statistics' and 'sellouts and traitors' so be it. One simple fact is that the Taliban are actually responsible for three times as many civilian deaths as Afghan government and Allied forces. That's THREE TIMES AS MANY. Get over it. The other equally simple fact is if that the Americans left tomorrow, the civil war would go on and yet more civilians would die.

Trumble, your statistics are interesting but I would not completely rely on a set of statistics from one source. the term "anti-government elements" is a bit vague. It does not specify that the Taliban are responsible for all of the deaths. There might be a strong possibility that the US has not revealed all the civilians that have been killed by the military either.

But if the Taliban laid down their weapons and chose to pursue their cause by political means the war would be over the same day. But they know the 'sellouts and traitors' are, in fact, the majority of Afghan citizens WHO DO NOT WANT THEM, so perpetuating the war is the only chance they have of grabbing the power they crave.

Actually the Taliban have offered negotiations to hand over Osama but George Bush ignored this.

Bush rejects Taliban offer to surrender bin Laden

I highly doubt you speak for all Afghan citizens...none of us do because it is impossible.

If the statistics present an accurate picture, than the anti-government elements are not truly helping the civilians, whatever their intentions are. You do not kill people in the process to help them. Both sides are just as bad to use indiscriminate attacks.