This makes me angry the West is saying they are not at war with Islam/Muslims yet the

format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63

This makes me angry the West is saying they are not at war with Islam/Muslims yet they allow Christian Missionaries to go to Afghanistan and to Iraq

It is not a case of 'allowing' them or not. Being, thankfully, free countries 'they' have no power to stop anybody who has or is committing no crime under their law from going anywhere they like.

If the Afghan or Iraqi authorities have a problem with such missionaries (and I think your assessment of their activities and methods is probably an accurate one), it's up to them to deny them entry or deport them. They have both the authority and the organization to do so.

I have to admit that this is a touchy subject for me. My father is a veteran of the Vietnam War and not a day goes by that I don't thank God that he survived (or I wouldn't be here). I appreciate and respect what he did. Now we both agree that Vietnam was a useless conflict, much as we agree that the current "War on Terror" is a useless conflict as well.

But I wonder if in 30 years or so, some other son of a veteran of this war might be posting in a forum such as this one. I wonder what his father will think just as I wonder what mine will think when I tell him...

People are always judged about their actions, according to the level of knowledge they possess about certain things at a certain time ( as Allah swt judges people ) . Off corse your father may have not known like many others at that time, or was unable to judge , or not in a position to question the order of the Authority; The army, or he couldn't just plain refuse to go to war, since thats how soldiers are trained, they are rigorously trained to subject to the command of their authority, they have to follow the orders and they do so. That is how this system runs, you submit to it with all your will power and your efforts, so much, that it in fact makes us forget that we are answerable to the One above for our actions, and this army will not stand up to save us on the day of judgment, neither the govt. or the police.

But at this time, it looks silly if the west denies that they are not at war with islam, the only countries invaded and being bombed are muslim, that is for everyone to see. But of corse the Us army is taught, told and convinced that these countries are terrorist states and need to be fought with, American soldiers are always heard saying that we are taught the position of offense, not defense, so we're pretty good at creating the offense,( got that from interviews of soldiers on the media) and we are not taught how to defend. That clearly shows that their armies are designed to attack, and attacking other countries and yet calling them the offenders is a big funny lie.

It is now that people have started to understand somewhat about what the world was hit within the past century, with all the wars and why or how they started and how wrong it was and for reasons were they started. That is where religious knowledge becomes so important, because that is the only source of knowledge that informs you what kind of authority do we really have to submit , to what extent, and what is the criteria to judge it precisely? All worldly authorities; the govt, the Establishment, the police and the army requires humans to submit to their authority, and that authority is frequently mis-used.( the taxes used in unjust wars, unjust police actions, legislating un-just laws and etc).

It is only the religion islam that differentiates between the thin line separating the good from bad and knowing what is actually wrong and what is not. Worldly authorities are devoid of that moral compulsion, and it is impossible to be morally sound for long, if you do not fear the Authority of One God above you. And it confirms the faith inside you when you see the events of the world unrolling just as predicted in the Hadith, there is no denying, these wars were predicted 1400 years ago.


( So once again, as much as a regard we all have for our parents and family members, it must always be there, but it must not come in the way of our submission to Allah swt, that is the essence of deen, that you love Allah swt and the Prophet saww more than you love yourself and your family. As on the day of judgment, no parent or the person you loved deeply, will be looking for you, all will be in great worry of their own actions, mothers will refuse to recognize their own beloved sons, for the fear of Punishment from Allah swt, as to why they were unable to instill some sense of God into them.)

Only Allah swt knows best.

And one must strive to achieve that level of love for Allah swt and the prophet saww, as one becomes closer to Allah, this is what muslims must strive to achieve; the approval of Allah swt, and the emulation of the life of the Prophet Muhammad saww, these are the only two things that set you free from all the burdensome worldly authorities.

If I was all about comfort and doing the easy thing, I would have never taken my shahada. I would have just kept going with my life as it was, and continued to be unhappy and miserable. I'm not saying that everything is all fine and dandy now, because it's not. I'm struggling. Every day, I struggle with coming to terms with my new faith and my new way of life.

I'm not denying that there is a war being waged on Islam and on Muslims. I get that. But I am trying to reconcile my respect for the military with my new way of life, and I'm having a hard time doing that. I'm still trying to come to terms with the fact that everything I've known in my life is wrong. The old order of my life is fading, but much of the new order has yet to be revealed. Right now I feel like I'm looking around at the remains of my old life and thinking "What just happened here?"

The thing is that in the long run, since you have seen both sides of the story, you will be able to understand everything better and thats a huge plus. : ) Hopefully not, but if there is any discrimination that you come across being a muslim, ignore it ( like this friends of yours commented about you and it didn't make you feel good about yourself, what would be his reaction had you commented on his religion?)

And it is true that things don't become all fine and dandy in a jiffy, that is the thing with peace,

“Peace does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. Peace means to be in the midst of all those things and yet still be calm in your spirit."

Peace to you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble

It is not a case of 'allowing' them or not. Being, thankfully, free countries 'they' have no power to stop anybody who has or is committing no crime under their law from going anywhere they like.

If the Afghan or Iraqi authorities have a problem with such missionaries (and I think your assessment of their activities and methods is probably an accurate one), it's up to them to deny them entry or deport them. They have both the authority and the organization to do so.

^ This.

I abhor missionaries, but I have no legal right to stop them so long as they act in accord with the laws. If they break the laws in the foreign country then its up to that country to enforce those laws.

format_quote Originally Posted by SFatima

The thing is that in the long run, since you have seen both sides of the story, you will be able to understand everything better and thats a huge plus. : ) Hopefully not, but if there is any discrimination that you come across being a muslim, ignore it ( like this friends of yours commented about you and it didn't make you feel good about yourself, what would be his reaction had you commented on his religion?)

And it is true that things don't become all fine and dandy in a jiffy, that is the thing with peace,

“Peace does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. Peace means to be in the midst of all those things and yet still be calm in your spirit."

Peace to you.

And here you are again. Ever my Voice of Reason, are you, sister.

Right, I hope that I can bring a unique perspective to Islam, being a Westerner, and a former Christian at that. As for discrimination, I'll deal with that when the time comes.

I want to eventually get like all of the Prophets were (peace be upon them all). They all faced adversity and discrimination, yet it only strengthened their faith in Allah. I want to do the same. The old me gets frustrated and angry when things don't go my way and I don't want to be like that anymore.

que Dios los bendiga

gracias : )

(hope i got that right : P)

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;


I feel really angry that Britain and America should invade these countries in the first place, killing thousands, and causing huge numbers of refugees.
You seem to feel angrier about people carrying bibles, rather than armies with bombs and guns.
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Many people on this forum say they have converted from Christianity to Islam, this suggests that Muslims have influenced these people in some way.
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I pray that we might all share heaven together despite all our differences, we are all created by the same God and the same God hears all our prayers. If only we could compete against each other in doing good deeds, then indeed this world could be a better place.
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In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

Greetings to you too Eric,

It isn't that we aren't upset about being waged a war on, it is that we muslims place a high value on our faith and I'm sure you'll agree that in times of despair, which we all come across, the only thing a person has, to hold on strong to, is his religion, his faith. To rob him of that, is a crime worse than killing him.( as i feel about it)

So being waged a war on for about 10 years is indeed awful but death is not what we fear as much as, we fear not having our faith with us when it was the time to die, and to rob some people of that chance by trying to change their faith by giving lucrative incentives that they may not be able to refuse out of extreme poverty; like that of a better life, some scrapes of food or shelter, isn't what we would prefer to live for without any dignity. But of corse only those people who are in extreme despair might choose to take that option, not withstanding the chaos around them, it is a very hard life where people see their own loved ones heads and limbs flying into the air, and it is harder when it seems to go on forever for no apparent reason, faith in God is the only healer of such testing times.

format_quote Originally Posted by SFatima

que Dios los bendiga

gracias : )

(hope i got that right : P)

Yes, you got it.

Muy ejelente...

If politicians feared God today we could ask them the same question, at some point we are all going to stand before God, how can you justify your stance on Iraq and Afghanistan?

I don't support either war, and neither does my father (a Vietnam veteran). But at the same time, I respect our troops and want everyone to come home safely. That way, nobody else has to die, on either side.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H

he gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan, who helped a Jew, who was beaten up. To make matters worse for the Jews in the parable, Jesus says that a Jewish Levite and a priest walked by the wounded Jew and they did not help him.

I don't know how the christians right and christians conservatives today interpret that passage to mean: helping zionists to beat up palestinians, to kill the children, and bombed the civilians.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan

I don't know how the christians right and christians conservatives today interpret that passage to mean: helping zionists to beat up palestinians, to kill the children, and bombed the civilians.

If I can be allowed to play Devil's Advocate for a moment...

Not all of them to do, to be sure. I never read that much into that parable when I was a Christian.

But I wasn't your typical Christian either, so maybe that's a bad example.

He did qualify with 'right' and 'conservative'. It is a dangerous line of argument though. For example a supposedly 'Islamic' government in Sudan was responsible for beatings-up, murders and bombings in the (now independent) South that makes any Israeli actions in Palestine look trivial in comparison. Far too often other issues push supposed religious convictions into the background.