8 Women killed by Natio Airstrike

format_quote Originally Posted by Predator

It shows clearly that he isnt as he never said "I am god or Worship me".Show me one verse where he said that..

Did you not see my previous post? He said He and the Father are one. He said that those who have seen Him have seen the Father. He said He will judge the nations.

Can you say the same about any prophet? Is Muhammad and Allah one? When people saw Muhammad, did they see Allah? Will Muhammad judge the world?

format_quote Originally Posted by Predator

In fact he said

a)"And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power isGIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth." MATTHEW 28:18

(b) I can of mine own self DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge . . ."JOHN 5:30
(c) ". . . I by the FINGER OF GOD cast out devils . . ." LUKE 11:20
(d)My father is greater than I. John 14:28
(e)My father is greater than All. John 10:29
(f) HE WAS IGNORANT OF THE LAST HOUR
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not theangels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father." MARK 13:32
(g) HE WAS IGNORANT OF THE SEASONS:
"And seeing a fig tree afar of having leaves, he came if happily he might find any thing there on: and when he came to it, hefound nothing but leaves, FOR THE TIME OF FIGS WAS NOT YET." MARK 11:13

Jesus was both man and God. When He was speaking of not knowing, He was speaking of His human side. Jesus also made Himself voluntarily below the Father.

format_quote Originally Posted by Predator

In this video Joshual Evans, a former Youth Minister, shares 10 reasons why Jesus can not be God.



[04:00]Reason #10 - God Can not be Born!
[05:05]Reason #09 - There is unequivocal textual evidence
[09:20]Reason #08 - No one has seen God!
[11:31]Reason #07 - This was the not belief of early Christians
[14:38]Reason #06 - Jesus Ate, Slept, and Prayed
[16:44]Reason #05 - Jesus claimed that God's Knowledge is greater than his
[20:10]Reason #04 - Jesus Explicitly states that he is not God
[22:50]Reason #03 - Son of God?
[29:29]Reason #02 - God does not change
[43:05]Reason #01 - God is the object of Worship!
[46:42]Conclusion

I'll watch it later perhaps. So far you have shown nothing from the Bible to back up your assertion.

format_quote Originally Posted by Predator

Of course we wont be suprised if you respond like most christians who respond like this

Posting a picture of a monkey...wow... now that was compelling. Insulting people who disagree and comparing Christians who believe God is a Trinity to monkeys. How pathetic. No different from Islamophobes who portray Muslims as terrorists about to blow themselves up.

You share their intellectual level.

[QUOTE=Jedi_Mindset;1541526]The army the taliban fought against consisted of communist warlords and mujahideen who betrayed and joined the US-pakistani backed northern alliance, communists often carry out scorched earth tactics in which they destroy everything and kill everyone when they pull back. these communist warlords were trained by soviet-elements.

I want to ask you the same, can you provide me proof that the taliban did this? And not media-based articles. You are really failing to provide evidence and aside from that the Afghan people know much better, and yes they are fuming angry against the evil invaders. the attack on camp bastion proved this, taliban is winning power. A matter of time before the US gets out.

Taliban havent got anything much against the shia's, the taliban itself consists of many sects however they are all destined and agreed to follow the real path - Ahlus sunnah wal jamaah

here a good book to read/QUOTE]
I have watched the Youtube videos. They do a great job in showing the human rights atrocities perpetrated by NATO, and I agree, this war has nothing to do with helping the Afghan people. It is a Western colonialist landgrab, no questions about it.

They however say nothing about the abuses perpetrated by the Taleban, which have taken place and continue to take place. Believe me, I am not justifying the invasion or occupation of Afghanistan. I have written letters and signed petitions, attended protests, talked about it to my friends and students and total strangers. I am not defending the West. Their conduct is shameful. It is murderous. It is terroristic.

But the same is true of the Taleban. You shouldn't resist one demon by teaming up with another.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

That's no God of monotheism nor Abrahamic faith then!
btw did you see the unearthed material I posted yesterday about said God taking a wife?


gets better and better doesn't it?

best,

You 'unearthed' it, huh? It's the first thing anyone saw when they clicked on Yahoo! News this morning. Brilliant detective work

PS does Islam teach Jesus was married?

The person who found this "unearthed material" had these things to say:

"Christian tradition has long held that Jesus was not married, even though no reliable historical evidence exists to support that claim," King said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday. "This new gospel doesn’t prove that Jesus was married, but it tells us that the whole question only came up as part of vociferous debates about sexuality and marriage. From the very beginning, Christians disagreed about whether it was better not to marry, but it was over a century after Jesus’s death before they began appealing to Jesus’ marital status to support their positions.

UPDATE: 4:28 p.m. -- Speaking on a conference call Tuesday from Rome, King said that some people who have read about the discovery have asked if the papyrus fragment was describing Jesus as being married to the Christian faith, not to a woman.
"One cannot overrule that it might be him saying 'my wife as a church,' but in the context where he's talking about 'my mother' and 'my wife' and talking about 'my disciple,' the one thing you would not say is that the church would be 'my disciple.'"
Even before King's discovery, there has been speculation that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. "I do not think Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene," King clarified Tuesday, adding, "whether he was or was not married ... I really think the tradition is silent and we don't know."


In your zeal to mock the Christian faith, you showed your inability to read the entire source that you are copying and pasting.

You said "it keeps getting better and better"... I hope that one thing that really improves is your comprehension.

God bless.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

And what of this?

"My Father is greater than I." ‐ (John 14:28)
which is curious given
For God is not the author of confusion Corinthians 14:33

Jesus made Himself inferior to the Father. Nothing confusing about that.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

and what's funny about that is that there's nothing but confusion in the bible..
have a looksey

that's kinda scary man!

If you take time to actually read what it says, you won't be confused. Try it sometime.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

That's not congruent with monotheism or any of the Abrahamic faiths from Judaism, to Mandeans to Sabeans etc. if you have no desire to subscribe to Islam, what you've is polytheism amalgamated with Greek/Egyptian and Sumerian mythology!

Monotheism = belief in one God
Polytheism = belief in many Gods.

Christians believe in one God who exists as three persons. We are monotheists.

Does the fact Allah is given over 99 attributes in the Quran mean that you believe in 99 gods? When surahs begin with "Bismallah al rahman al rahim", does that mean you are not talking about God the Just and God the Avenger?

You are as 'polytheistic' as we are.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

And what of your intellect?

I'm not the one who posts pictures of monkeys and claims that people who disagree with me are animals.
best,[/QUOTE]

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Your churches are frankly frightening

no spirituality no goodness, just human cows eating poor people's money and bowing to Satan.

Do you really believe all or even most Christian churches are like that? Are you really that blind?

Does a video of masked men decapitating a man in an orange robe show what Islam is like?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

You seem upset? I would be too if every other day I was getting shocking news about god.. hey at least they don't make him thrice the adulterer:
Weimer quoted a passage from the Table-Talk in which Luther states that Christ committed adultery three times, first with the woman at the well, secondly with Mary Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery, “whom he let off so lightly. Thus even Christ who was so holy had to commit adultery before he died.” (See Arnold Lunn, The Revolt Against Reason, Eyre & Spottiswoode (Publishers), London, 1950, p.233.)

So you believe that Jesus committed adultery?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

He'll be in shaa Allah with his second coming and die like all men will!

That's not what I asked you.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

you can fix this in the manner of your choosing, it doesn't do much for me either way.. Martin Luther already seems to think he's an adulterer so I think marriage is at least a step up![/U]

I'm not "fixing" anything, I'm merely pointing out that the article you cited does nothing to prove your point, as the author herself states that the documents she found do not prove Jesus was married.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

To the contrary I have read every word.. It doesn't bother me that a man born to a woman who ate and defecated and cursed a tree in the earth that he would have allegedly created otherwise for not bearing him fruit is married. Seems natural.

Except that your source does not state He was married to begin with.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

But it is your comprehension that's on the line here.. I don't subscribe to half of this bull **** so it doesn't bother me one way or the other..

by the way how is your evangelizing going? any luck with the folks of the forum? [/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

I can only witness to the truth. It is up to you and others to accept it or reject it. All glory belongs to God.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Well sure if you're worshiping three gods. Isn't it better to simply concede to that in lieu of all the convolutions?

No, because it isn't true. The claim Christians worship three gods is an ignorant claim made by people who do not understand our faith, or are making lies about it.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Come now oh evangelize(r) can't you do better than descending down to petty schoolboy games?

I'm not the one who goes around swearing and posting up pictures of apes.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Indeed, one superior god, one mini god who prays the superior god won't forsake him in the morning and one hovering god that descends upon charlatans to forgo his entire OT

Nope. One God who exists and reveals Himself in three ways- as the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. He created us and called us children as the Father, then came down to earth to live among us as the Son, and remains the the hearts of the believers as the Holy Spirit. Why do you call us 'charlatans'? Do I use such terms to describe Muslims?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

That's not logically coherent!

Maybe not to you. The idea of God existing is not logically coherent to most atheists either. That doesn't mean it isn't true.

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Calling Jesus, yashu, isa, the anointed one we're still talking about the same person with the same nature, but you're talking about a god above, a hovering god and a dying mangod, not the same thing, attributes aren't a contradiction. I can be sad and angry and generous and still be منوة however, three gods and claiming monotheism is another illogical assertion!

Why can God not exist as three persons? Do you believe He is unable to do that?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Nope!

Na'am!

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

It is a trope, I thought it was appropriate!

best,

You think it is appropriate to compare people who don't agree with you to monkeys? Really?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

I have frequented a few churches attended mass and all, they're no different.

You saw people dancing in them? Which church was that?

format_quote Originally Posted by منوة الخيال

Does the robe have to be orange? Indeed if an orange wearing man was doing this in a Mosque and I frquented mosques and saw that daily I might think that is what Islam is all about..by the way the whole 'terrorist' thing is not a sore point for me (at all) if you think it a trump card or something that I am going to try to deflect or hide or cover you're mistaken so get new material as it is your arguments are akin to that of 7 year old.. if this weren't so relaxing and virtually appealing I'd almost feel sorry for you

best,

So how a Muslim acts outside of a mosque doesn't matter? I don't think you are relaxed at all, if you were, you wouldn't be swearing and making insults. People who do that in a debate more often than not have nothing intelligent to add, so they make up for it in such ways.

format_quote Originally Posted by Predator

I did and it proved nothing


John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." This verse is severely misunderstood and is taken out of context,

These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. Father is holding something in his hand and son is also holding something and no one can pull it of of eithers hand , are the father and son the same person ?

It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart.

29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how you try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me.In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I (John 14:28)

So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary?
However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people,

1-The fact is that the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.
2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.
3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.




The Bible says:
"No man hath seen God at any time," John 1:18

Again watch reason 8 in the video
[09:20]Reason #08 - No one has seen God!





Jesus does everything according to will of the God, for instance Jesus does not do things according to what he thinks or feels, rather he does things which is in line with God's will. So when Jesus does judge the people, Jesus judges the people in line with God's will, not his own, as Jesus himself says:


I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5:30)


So when Jesus Judges the people, he judges them not according to his own judgement, rather he judges the people according to God's will. Hence you can already see that it is already God who is in real control, not Jesus, because Jesus simply judges on God's will. For instance in Islam we believe the prophet Muhammad will intercede for the believers, yet the prophet Muhammad is given the right to intercede, and he can only intercede for those who have been given permission to be interceded for, and those who can be saved by his intercession can only be saved by God's will and permission, hence in reality all the power of intercession is in God's hand, the prophet Muhammad is simply having the honour and blessing of carrying the task out.


The same goes for Jesus, he will be judge, but he is given the right to judge, and he can only judge those who have been given permission to be judged by God, and his judgement cannot be his own personal judgement but rather must be in line with God's will, hence in reality all judgement is with God and not with Jesus. This is exactly why Jesus said the following:


I judge no man. (John 8:15)


How can Jesus judge no man when he says he will judge people? Is this a contradiction? Not really, the reason he says he judges no man is because of the explanation I gave above, it all fits the picture. Yes, Jesus will judge people, but he is given permission to judge, it is not his own right and power, and on top of that Jesus will judge people according to God's will, not his own, hence in reality all judgement is with God, not Jesus, and this is precisely why Jesus eventually says he judges no man.

This a really well written, intelligent, and thought out post. I will gladly reply to it later today after work. Salaam.