West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors involved (OP)
Salaam
Looks like Western powers are becoming more overt in their desire to manipulate the outcome of the Syrian conflict.
UK and French instructors involved in US-led effort to strengthen secular elements in Syria's opposition, say sources
Western training of Syrian rebels is under way in Jordan in an effort to strengthen secular elements in the opposition as a bulwark against Islamic extremism, and to begin building security forces to maintain order in the event of Bashar al-Assad's fall.
Jordanian security sources say the training effort is led by the US, but involves British and French instructors. The UK Ministry of Defence denied any British soldiers were providing direct military training to the rebels, though a small number of personnel, including special forces teams, have been in the country training the Jordanian military.
But the Guardian has been told that UK intelligence teams are giving the rebels logistical and other advice in some form.
British officials have made it clear that they believe new EU rules have now given the UK the green light to start providing military training for rebel fighters with the aim of containing the spread of chaos and extremism in areas outside the Syrian regime's control. According to European and Jordanian sources the western training in Jordan has been going on since last year and is focused on senior Syrian army officers who defected.
"As is normal, before any major decision is taken on this issue, the preparations are made so that when that decision is taken, everything is in place for it to go smoothly. That is what these groups [special forces] do. They go in in advance," a European diplomat said.
A Jordanian source familiar with the training operations said: "It's the Americans, Brits and French with some of the Syrian generals who defected. But we're not talking about a huge operation."
He added that there had so far been no "green light" for the rebel forces being trained to be sent into Syria. But they would be deployed if there were signs of a complete collapse of public services in the southern Syrian city of Daraa, which could trigger a million more Syrians seeking refuge in Jordan, which is reeling under the strain of accommodating the 320,000 who have already sought shelter there. The aim of sending western-trained rebels over the border would be to create a safe area for refugees on the Syrian side of the border, to prevent chaos and to provide a counterweight to al-Qaida-linked extremists who have become a powerful force in the north.
British officials say new European guidelines on the Syrian arms embargo, formally adopted by the EU at the beginning of March, allow military training as long as the ultimate aim of that training is "the protection of civilians".
Paris takes an identical view of the EU rules.
Officials in Brussels say the language of the guidelines is less than clear-cut. "It's deliberately hazy," said one. "When it comes to technical assistance, what it means in practice depends on who you ask. The Brits and the French, for example, are much more forward-leaning than others. The principle is that the assistance should be for the protection of civilians, but as we saw in Libya, that can be interpreted in different ways."
British officials argue that training of Syrian forces to fill the security vacuum as the Assad regime collapses would be help safeguard civilian lives. William Hague, the foreign minister, outlined the goals of such training on Wednesday.
"Such technical assistance can include assistance, advice and training on how to maintain security in areas no longer controlled by the regime, on co-ordination between civilian and military councils, on how to protect civilians and minimise the risks to them, and how to maintain security during a transition," he told parliament. "We will now provide such assistance, advice and training."
A Foreign Office spokesman said: "It's not the sort of thing we are going into too much detail on right now. We are big on the transition picture, because at some point Assad is going to fall, and the opposition are going to need help to provide governance in areas they control, and that of course includes security. But security doesn't just mean fighting, it also means basic law and order, and policing."
The Pentagon said last October that a small group of US special forces and military planners had been to Jordan during the summer to help the country prepare for the possibility of Syrian use of chemical weapons and train selected rebel fighters.
That planning cell, which was housed at the King Abdullah II Special Operations Training Centre in the north of the capital, Amman, has since been expanded to co-ordinate a more ambitious training programme. But Jordanian sources said the actual training was being carried out at more remote sites, with recent US reports saying it was being led by the CIA. For the first two years of the Syrian civil war, Jordan has sought to stay out of the fray, fearing a backlash from Damascus and an influx of extremists that would destabilise the precariously balanced kingdom.
"What has happened of late is that there has been a tactical shift," said Julien Barnes-Dacey, a Middle East expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations thinktank. "Islamist forces have been gaining steam in the north and Jordan is keen to avoid that in the south. Having been very hands-off, they now see that they have to do something in the south."
He added: "There is a feeling that Jordan simply can't handle a huge new influx of refugees so the idea would be to create a safe zone inside Syria. For them it's a no-win scenario. Everything they had been seeking to avoid has come to pass."
For western and Saudi backers of the opposition, Jordan has become a preferable option through which to channel aid than Turkey. Ankara has been criticised for allowing extremist groups, such as the al-Nusra Front, become dominant on the northern front while it focused on what it sees as the growing threat of Kurdish secessionism.
"The Americans now trust us more than the Turks, because with the Turks everything is about gaining leverage for action against the Kurds," said a Jordanian source familiar with official thinking in Amman.
The US has announced an extra $60m (£40.2m) in direct aid to the rebels, including military rations and medical kits. Asked on Tuesday whether assistance included military training, the US state department spokesman Pat Ventrell replied: "I really don't have anything for you on that. Our policy has been non-lethal assistance."
Earlier this week, the US secretary of state, John Kerry, said Washington was now confident that arms supplies to the rebels would not be diverted to extremists. "There is a very clear ability now in the Syrian opposition to make certain that what goes to the moderate, legitimate opposition is, in fact, getting to them, and the indication is that they are increasing their pressure as a result of that," he said.
Syrian rebels have said that in the past few months there had been a relaxation of the previously strict US rules on what kinds of weapons were allowed across the border, and that portable anti-aircraft missiles had been released from Turkish warehouses where they had been impounded. Matt Schroeder, who tracks the spread of such weapons for the Federation of American Scientists, said the recent appearance of modern, sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles in the hands of such fragmented rebel groups was deeply troubling in view of their capacity to bring down civilian airlines.
"This is a step above anything we've seen before in the hands of non-state actors," he said. "This is a new and unfortunate chapter in recent manpad [man-portable air-defence] proliferation."
Its a political game and its for the middle eastern resources. Atleast one of the many obvious reasons, they're demonizing muslims because they want to destroy islam.
But we muslims will be victorious, wether the non-muslims will like it or not.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-09-2013 at 07:04 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
NATO forces are more likely to be arming the FSA, they've already done it in Libya where they armed thugs to destabilise the entire region and ended up invading and bombing the country.
The invasion in Libya is their blueprint and they're trying to do the exact same in Syria, Allah knows best
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
Nothing NATO did in Libya was any more or any less bad than what the colonel did with his own hands. Including the billions squandered on bull we're not gonna touch on the genocides there either.
There's no reason to believe that Syria will run the same course in fact each place that has seen a revolt has seen a different course. I don't think anything is worse than Bashar the rafidi, Alawite pig.. The answer lies in the resolve, faith & tenacity of the free army and if accepts it from them not in what Bashar or NATO does, both their days are numbered
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
each place that has seen a revolt has seen a different course.
Yes, and the prime factor in that is how each different ruling regime reacted to the Arab Spring pressure. Gaddafi and Assad chose to fight to the death, whereas Mubarak stood aside reasonably quickly. If armed revolt is the only way then weapons saturate the society, revenge follows on revenge. Civil wars are often the most bloody.
In effect we are getting to see in Syria what would have happened in Libya if the west hadn't got involved - ie a much more protracted war that does more damage. In Libya, when Russia unexpectedly stood aside, the west neutralised Gaddafi's airpower. Whereas in Syria, Russia won't be fooled again so Assad rules the skies. He'll probably still lose in the end but it's a much more destructive fight.
When you remove dictators who have been in place for many decades then all the tensions that have been suppressed for so many years come to the surface at once.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
There's only one reason for the west to be involved and we all know what that is. The west/spawn of Satan whether east or west is also behind most if not all the civil wars. They incite it so they can come in and say see how much we're needed.
Study history a little. See how for instance the Brits played it when they were doing their divide and conquer thing giving for instance a large triangular wedge out of Egypt to Sudan to justify their presence there in case a 'civil war' broke out... They have perfected that game and everyone is on to it. What worked 70 yrs ago and on that old debuached generation is not working on this one. We've all evolved from the days of 'Lawrence of Arabia'
People who have lived at peace with each other side by side for millenniums don't all of a sudden want to have at their neighbor for no reason.
Do read Robert Fisk's 'the world through Syrian lens'
It is too bad for you we're not all as dumb as all that so I am not sure why you keep trying!
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
There's only one reason for the west to be involved and we all know what that is. The west/spawn of Satan whether east or west is also behind most if not all the civil wars. They incite it so they can come in and say see how much we're needed.
Thats what i was explaining to you all the time, however due to my poor english i cant describe it better than you do. They only give the rebels a few MANPADs and guns who dont work against bashar's airforce and army. But they wont intervene.
They're trying to enflame the civil war more and more by this, but Insha'Allah their plots will fail. though, i think it should be a bit guessed that the uprising itself had some CIA involvement. NSF which started their protest against bashar has some links with the CIA.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-10-2013 at 10:32 AM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
They only give the rebels a few MANPADs and guns who dont work against bashar's airforce and army. But they wont intervene.
There are enough facts in plain sight to understand this.
We know that they aren't supplying proper weapons because...they told us!
And we know why....because Russia and China won't agree to it.
So unless you think Russia and China's UN veto is itself organised by the west, to block their own support, then you need to look at Russian/Chinese motivations, not the US.
And then you need to explain why Russia allowed support to Libyan rebels, but not Syrian ones.
You're going to get yourself horribly dizzy and none of it will make much sense. Or, you could get Occam's Razor out right now and finally give yourself a proper shave (metaphorically speaking).
Last edited by Independent; 03-10-2013 at 11:07 AM.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
So unless you think Russia and China's UN veto is itself organised by the west, to block their own support, then you need to look at Russian/Chinese motivations, not the US.
Did i mentioned that in my posts? Dont bring up assumptions or things to make up. US cooperates with russia regarding this with what you have said, only the media wants you to believe in divisions.
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
And then you need to explain why Russia allowed support to Libyan rebels, but not Syrian ones.
Libya was not really in their interests anymore and not close to their border. Infact the oil fields which are now occupied by the BP, shell will most likely benefit russia also in some way with oil dealings.
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
You're going to get yourself horribly dizzy and none of it will make much sense. Or, you could get Occam's Razor out right now and finally give yourself a proper shave.
No way, i dont want to look like a prettyboy.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-10-2013 at 11:11 AM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Did i mentioned that in my posts? Dont bring up assumptions or things to make up.
You can say anything you like but, given that the reason the west don't supply proper weapons to Syria is the UN veto, then it's a waste of time looking for other mysterious motivations until you've accounted for that one.
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Libya was not really in their interests anymore and not close to their border. Infact the oil fields which are now occupied by the BP, shell will most likely benefit russia also in some way with oil dealings.
i can assure you Russia strongly regrets losing their Libyan ally and they most certainly did not expect it to happen. They feel that the west used its limited permission to offer humanitarian help, protect civilians etc and turned it into major military support. Which i think is true (although they still stopped short of offering much help on the ground). The longer the war went on, and the less likely it looked the rebels would win, the more the west helped.
In fact this example shows plainly that the west is not always seeking to extend chaos or prolong wars, as is often said here. They expected the rebels to win easily, and when it didn't happen, they intervened more and more until it did.
Last edited by Independent; 03-10-2013 at 11:18 AM.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
You can say anything you like but, given that the reason the west don't supply proper weapons to Syria is the UN veto, then it's a waste of time looking for other mysterious motivations until you've accounted for that one.
Its not that really, they want to prevent the hardcore weapons falling into the hands of the 'islamists'. So the most hardcore weapons go to the more secular wings of the FSA. They have already being supplied with M60's, m79 rocket launchers and other anti-tank weapons.
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
i can assure you Russia strongly regrets losing their Libyan ally and they most certainly did not expect it to happen. They feel that the west used its limited permission to offer humanitarian help, protect civilians etc and turned it into major military support. Which i think is true (although they still stopped short of offering much help on the ground). The longer the war went on, and the less likely it looked the rebels would win, the more the west helped.
NATO didnt really do it for ''humantarian'' help lol, they just wanted to have the oil. Ofcourse they expected it that Gadaffi would fall at some moment, so will Assad even if it takes a decade. Assad though has some major allies in the region like iraq and iran. Iraq has already cooperated with the syrian army to take some border posts. Plus both iran and iraq are sending militias into syria. The reason why the west does this is to undermine sino influence, just like they do it in Africa.
Russia is not really their problem, china is.
When both sides arm the conflict it will only go worse and worse. Especially russia's arm trade like fighter jets and helicopters.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-10-2013 at 11:46 AM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
NATO didnt really do it for ''humantarian'' help lol, they just wanted to have the oil
Ironically, by the time Gaddafi fell he had far better relations with the west and oil deals were opening up anyway. From a strictly oil point of view, it would have been better to have left him in power.
I think the rebellion took everyone by surprise including the west. Although they wouldn't have sought it at that point, and if anything it was counterproductive to their economic interests, the west felt obliged to support the rebels against a manifest dictator whom they had condemned for decades.
Also, I think they (correctly) calculated that his time was up, just as they have done with Mubarack and Assad.
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
Its not that really, they want to prevent the hardcore weapons falling into the hands of the 'islamists'.
Yes - again, they say this explicitly! For the west these are very tricky situations. If they do nothing, or if they do something, either way it could end up hurting them. It's pretty much guesswork.
The main complicating factor for the west is the extreme anti-western sentiment across so much of the Muslim world (as exhibited here also) which means that whatever course of action they take will always be condemned as the worst, even if it's what everyone was asking for beforehand.
For this reason i personally think the west should disengage entirely from the whole middle east region and do nothing for any side, except for its declared allies. More like a Chinese approach. The real divisions are within the Muslim world and the only thing that can unite them right now is hatred of the west. So, the west needs to stop being stupid enough to play that role.
China is following a wholly selfish foreign policy, doesn't care how nasty the regimes it deals with are, benefits as much from the free trade that the west fights for, yet doesn't have to get involved and never gets blamed for anything. I'd call that a very successful policy.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
it would have been better to have left him in power.
he was their bed buddy- what's your point?
he was also a little unstable so when his bed buddies abandoned him toward the end he was a ticking time bomb they'd to rid of him.. that outwighs their oil needs!
the rest of the crap is just drivel although we're impressed with your points system!
best,
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
I wonder if you are perhaps related?
We've always known you to over dramatize and concoct all sorts of bulls **** but how is this related to the topic? complete bankruptcy in your dossier of ready made 'facts' perhaps?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
You often speak in the plural - signs of schizophrenia?
Although I think Tourette's has to play a part somewhere.
It is a 'Royal we' and if you want to read into it with all your insta dossier expert training, it is how small and nonexistent I view you!
hope they color your folder with schizoid, schizotypal, schizophreniform, schizoaffective, schizophrenia differentiation, you know for your credibility' sake =)
back to Syria or you want an all out catharsis?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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And I am just as normal westener.
accepts it from them not in what Bashar or NATO does, both their days are numbered 
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