Looks like Western powers are becoming more overt in their desire to manipulate the outcome of the Syrian conflict.
UK and French instructors involved in US-led effort to strengthen secular elements in Syria's opposition, say sources
Western training of Syrian rebels is under way in Jordan in an effort to strengthen secular elements in the opposition as a bulwark against Islamic extremism, and to begin building security forces to maintain order in the event of Bashar al-Assad's fall.
Jordanian security sources say the training effort is led by the US, but involves British and French instructors. The UK Ministry of Defence denied any British soldiers were providing direct military training to the rebels, though a small number of personnel, including special forces teams, have been in the country training the Jordanian military.
But the Guardian has been told that UK intelligence teams are giving the rebels logistical and other advice in some form.
British officials have made it clear that they believe new EU rules have now given the UK the green light to start providing military training for rebel fighters with the aim of containing the spread of chaos and extremism in areas outside the Syrian regime's control. According to European and Jordanian sources the western training in Jordan has been going on since last year and is focused on senior Syrian army officers who defected.
"As is normal, before any major decision is taken on this issue, the preparations are made so that when that decision is taken, everything is in place for it to go smoothly. That is what these groups [special forces] do. They go in in advance," a European diplomat said.
A Jordanian source familiar with the training operations said: "It's the Americans, Brits and French with some of the Syrian generals who defected. But we're not talking about a huge operation."
He added that there had so far been no "green light" for the rebel forces being trained to be sent into Syria. But they would be deployed if there were signs of a complete collapse of public services in the southern Syrian city of Daraa, which could trigger a million more Syrians seeking refuge in Jordan, which is reeling under the strain of accommodating the 320,000 who have already sought shelter there. The aim of sending western-trained rebels over the border would be to create a safe area for refugees on the Syrian side of the border, to prevent chaos and to provide a counterweight to al-Qaida-linked extremists who have become a powerful force in the north.
British officials say new European guidelines on the Syrian arms embargo, formally adopted by the EU at the beginning of March, allow military training as long as the ultimate aim of that training is "the protection of civilians".
Paris takes an identical view of the EU rules.
Officials in Brussels say the language of the guidelines is less than clear-cut. "It's deliberately hazy," said one. "When it comes to technical assistance, what it means in practice depends on who you ask. The Brits and the French, for example, are much more forward-leaning than others. The principle is that the assistance should be for the protection of civilians, but as we saw in Libya, that can be interpreted in different ways."
British officials argue that training of Syrian forces to fill the security vacuum as the Assad regime collapses would be help safeguard civilian lives. William Hague, the foreign minister, outlined the goals of such training on Wednesday.
"Such technical assistance can include assistance, advice and training on how to maintain security in areas no longer controlled by the regime, on co-ordination between civilian and military councils, on how to protect civilians and minimise the risks to them, and how to maintain security during a transition," he told parliament. "We will now provide such assistance, advice and training."
A Foreign Office spokesman said: "It's not the sort of thing we are going into too much detail on right now. We are big on the transition picture, because at some point Assad is going to fall, and the opposition are going to need help to provide governance in areas they control, and that of course includes security. But security doesn't just mean fighting, it also means basic law and order, and policing."
The Pentagon said last October that a small group of US special forces and military planners had been to Jordan during the summer to help the country prepare for the possibility of Syrian use of chemical weapons and train selected rebel fighters.
That planning cell, which was housed at the King Abdullah II Special Operations Training Centre in the north of the capital, Amman, has since been expanded to co-ordinate a more ambitious training programme. But Jordanian sources said the actual training was being carried out at more remote sites, with recent US reports saying it was being led by the CIA. For the first two years of the Syrian civil war, Jordan has sought to stay out of the fray, fearing a backlash from Damascus and an influx of extremists that would destabilise the precariously balanced kingdom.
"What has happened of late is that there has been a tactical shift," said Julien Barnes-Dacey, a Middle East expert at the European Council on Foreign Relations thinktank. "Islamist forces have been gaining steam in the north and Jordan is keen to avoid that in the south. Having been very hands-off, they now see that they have to do something in the south."
He added: "There is a feeling that Jordan simply can't handle a huge new influx of refugees so the idea would be to create a safe zone inside Syria. For them it's a no-win scenario. Everything they had been seeking to avoid has come to pass."
For western and Saudi backers of the opposition, Jordan has become a preferable option through which to channel aid than Turkey. Ankara has been criticised for allowing extremist groups, such as the al-Nusra Front, become dominant on the northern front while it focused on what it sees as the growing threat of Kurdish secessionism.
"The Americans now trust us more than the Turks, because with the Turks everything is about gaining leverage for action against the Kurds," said a Jordanian source familiar with official thinking in Amman.
The US has announced an extra $60m (£40.2m) in direct aid to the rebels, including military rations and medical kits. Asked on Tuesday whether assistance included military training, the US state department spokesman Pat Ventrell replied: "I really don't have anything for you on that. Our policy has been non-lethal assistance."
Earlier this week, the US secretary of state, John Kerry, said Washington was now confident that arms supplies to the rebels would not be diverted to extremists. "There is a very clear ability now in the Syrian opposition to make certain that what goes to the moderate, legitimate opposition is, in fact, getting to them, and the indication is that they are increasing their pressure as a result of that," he said.
Syrian rebels have said that in the past few months there had been a relaxation of the previously strict US rules on what kinds of weapons were allowed across the border, and that portable anti-aircraft missiles had been released from Turkish warehouses where they had been impounded. Matt Schroeder, who tracks the spread of such weapons for the Federation of American Scientists, said the recent appearance of modern, sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles in the hands of such fragmented rebel groups was deeply troubling in view of their capacity to bring down civilian airlines.
"This is a step above anything we've seen before in the hands of non-state actors," he said. "This is a new and unfortunate chapter in recent manpad [man-portable air-defence] proliferation."
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
Junon isn't a Sunni Muslim why would he want them to be helped? in Fact no one wants them helped hence the 2 year intense genocide!
the west is only going in now after the rebels secured almost half the country with the primitive weapons they've of course they don't want anything like jabhat an'nusra in power- that would spell disaster wouldn't it, especially that it is the civilians that have now become well trained soldiers.
Not to worry though everyone sees through the transparency of this charade.
We know who the enemies are east and west!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
Its a sign though, for what they are planning to do for syria. Just like what they did in yugoslavia, the dividing into pieces of states. The Yinon-plan going in full swing, syria will be divided just like iraq. Who is to blame? Us. our lack of support and unification.
Ofcourse they would give the secular, more nationalist syrians power. they will prevent any islamic government at all cost, and i assure you they will succeed this time again, because its of our lack of support as we are busy complaining about mobile phones and neglecting our duties. I hope the best but...and i may get bad replies on my comments but i see how it is. M60's, m79's have already appeared in vids by the FSA. Most likely provided by the gulf states.
when the west starts to control the main body of FSA in which they almost are succeeding to do it will be bad for the ones who want islamic shariah, justice.
Remember this is just my view, i dont support Assad he is a secular dictator. I say how it is now, because i dont look into the future, because only Allah knows the future.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-08-2013 at 07:16 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
Go on please applaud Iran for backing the Bashar regime and supplying his sons of mut3a rafidis with cluster bombs to rain down on children.. and yes please in the west sit in your stately rooms in your Armani suits and clean water debating whether or not to arm the rebels or label them terrorists two years in.
will cure this burning in our hearts and grant us victory over his enemies the spawn of the devil of the east & west.
7asbona wa ni3ma alwakeel!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
to who was that directed? I am not backing Iran. And if you read my comment it doesnt state so.
Syria already had cluster bombs in his stockpile, old soviet bombs it recieved from the USSR. Iran and iraq are supplying with militias and men.
But the western weapons in hands of the opposition should not be ignored, i think at a later stage the west is going to use them against iran. This might be a upocming prophecy also, sis i think you know what i mean. Listen i am not anti-FSa or atleast some groups fighting syria, but to completely deny of western support is a sign of ignorance.
Dont mind the title of this vid:
Its true that GCC and NATO have a common interest to counter russian-sino-shiite influence hence their arming of syrian rebels but secretly they want the shiites to make a huge alliance with the israelis.
Dont misunderstand me, all sides are controlled by the same guys. There are zionist deep states in saudi arabia, qatar, russia, USA, Iran, turkey and Syria.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-09-2013 at 10:01 AM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
But the western weapons in hands of the opposition should not be ignored, i think at a later stage the west is going to use them against iran. This might be a upocming prophecy also, sis i think you know what i mean.
This thread is a really good example of how the West will get blamed here no matter what course of action gets taken. Junon thinks the west is intervening but shouldn't. Shaden thinks the west is deliberately not intervening and is only getting involved now when it's too late. And Jedi has a complicated theory to do with attacking Iran that is not at all clear but probably involves a more detailed reading of that thread about neck-eating worms (surely the best named thread yet).
These 3 ideas completely contradict each other as usual.
The simple and obvious explanation is that Syria is a Russian client state and this dominates international reaction. Russia/China block anything at the UN so the west is limited in what it can do. Also, after bad experiences arming rebels in Afghanistan and Libya, western policymakers will wonder if it's worth the risk of it here. That's pretty much it.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
This thread is a really good example of how the West will get blamed here no matter what course of action gets taken. Junon thinks the west is intervening but shouldn't. Shaden thinks the west is deliberately not intervening and is only getting involved now when it's too late. And Jedi has a complicated theory to do with attacking Iran that is not at all clear but probably involves a more detailed reading of that thread about neck-eating worms (surely the best named thread yet).
These 3 ideas completely contradict each other as usual.
The simple and obvious explanation is that Syria is a Russian client state and this dominates international reaction. Russia/China block anything at the UN so the west is limited in what it can do. Also, after bad experiences arming rebels in Afghanistan and Libya, western policymakers will wonder if it's worth the risk of it here. That's pretty much it.
ofcourse the west gets blamed, and its legimate because first of all Assad was a friend of them, france placed his family in power after they left. West will not interverne yes, but the west supports the GCC which is anti-iran influence, this comes also in favour of israel for a while. Israel will most likely steer them away from its border by luring them against shiite targets like hizbullah. So will the west. Israel will not attack iran, the GCC will do, not via armies, but they pay mujahideen to do the job, US already removed the MKO from its of terrorist organization, although the MKO is secular and baathist it will come in favor of the war against Iran.
But true is that the north of 'israel' will be a turbulent region for a very while, it will have oppertunities for them but also many negative sides for them, not for us. Independent groups in syria can easily launch attacks on the zionists. As long the groups will fight the shiites, israel can have more time to prepare and steer them towards Iran. I have read political PDF's made by zionists, one of them from 1982 outlines the yinon plan, which speaks about the dividing of syria, libya and iraq in little states. Also egypt will suffer the same. Hence the civil war in syria is a oppertunity for them to divide it
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-09-2013 at 11:14 AM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
ofcourse the west gets blamed
I don't mind which line you guys pick, but just pick one.
Some of the rest of your post I'd agree with. Syria is now totally unstable and although there are many countries who would have no love for Assad, the current situation could go in any direction.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
Independent:
You often read what you want in people's posts and not what is written!
I don't think the west isn't intervening or not doing enough I know they're sneaky sons of devils who will come in at the eleventh hour to reclaim the glory and see what else they can do by war of thievery for the cockroach state.
If your understanding is limited to your education don't extend that limitation to how others think or analyze.
Jedi I am familiar with your earlier view so it doesn't matter what's written now. I'd rather people stand their grounds than color what's written with a new flavor or misconstrue what's written all together.
Bottom line is rebels have secured half the country with what little they've and soon the rest and it will be a cold day in hell if the west thinks they can come in pretending to be allies and we already know exactly what the sons of mut3a are all about we've always known and since the assassination of Omar Ibn ilkhataab
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
As long we respect each other's view, and dont fight each other again about a conflict, you know we dont know everything about Unity needs to be achieved and fights should be avoided about some disagreements.
I am just not taking sides, i will wait for the outcome, if a islamic state emerges in syria, it will get my support.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
There's no unity with the sons of mut3a. They're nothing more than Zionists with a different flavor and their sect initiated by 'AbduAllah ibn Sabaa' who was a Jew trying to do for Islam what Paul/Saul did for Christianity al7mdullilah that it didn't work save on people who had no desire to accept Islam to begin with but had to submit to it so they submitted on their deranged terms. There's no reason to accept that just because many want them to count as Muslims. Especially when what they're doing is systematic eradication of Muslims, and many have already given in numbers the HizbuAllah freaks along with forces from Iran/Iraq to fight on behalf of Bashar and heavily armed by Russia & China and certainly with their approval. The west will do what it does best come in to reclaim the booty and have a camera moment as to how they came to save the day like they did in Bosnia.. they'd of course rather the two teams wipe each other clean as is and then they can still have their desired system of governance new face same ****!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
I dont mean regarding sects sis, just between us and you know that i am not a shia :P
I know about iran and iraq arming syria and pro-gov militias there, they are the other side of the coin controlled by the same people who control the US, Russia et cetera.
My view is that the US has support through the GCC who arm the syrian opposition, the GCC is anti-Iran so thats why it will somehow be good for the US to counter mainly chinese influence. But their succes will not be for long.
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-09-2013 at 02:15 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
The Syrians have to decide whether they want to be ruled over by NATO stooges 'Free Syrian Army' or Assad and either way its a lose lose scenario in my opinion. Both sides have committed awful crimes, Assad is butchering his own people and FSA are indiscriminately targeting and killing in the name of 'Freedom'
They're essentially cut from the same cloth and supporting either side is a crime in itself as they are both inheritely evil, I think its better to support the people of Syria who are caught in the middle of all this and pray for Khilfah to be established in the blessed lands by TRUE men of Allah.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
[FONT=Courier New][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=3]U.S & Iran are bed fellows don't buy into the crap they brainwash you with on TV.
Treacherous Alliance:
The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the United States Trita Parsi 14 Reviews
Yale University Press, 2007 -
As i said the west wont intervene in these matters, but will use the arabs for this. Hence that what is happening will eventually spread to iran. Divide and conquer is by controlling both sides
And to enflame these kind of wars they will be the ones who will run the guns and armsflow.
Iraq-iran war both sides got armed by the same people (US, Uk, israel)
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 03-09-2013 at 05:59 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Mindset
As i said the west wont intervene in these matters, but will use the arabs for this. Hence that what is happening will eventually spread to iran. Divide and conquer is by controlling both sides
And to enflame these kind of wars they will be the ones who will run the guns and armsflow.
Realistically, most of the arms on the rebel side right now will have been supplied through Muslim sources, wherever they were manufactured.
You give the west way too much 'credit' for influence. The main drivers in this conflict are Syrian born, Syrian made. And the single biggest non-national influencer for many years has been Iran. Iran has played a highly destabilising game across the whole region but especially in Lebanon and Iraq. They may have got what they wanted in Iraq but in Syria and Lebanon their whole strategy looks like it could backfire.
Re: West training Syrian rebels in Jordan Exclusive: UK and French instructors invol
format_quote Originally Posted by Independent
Realistically, most of the arms on the rebel side right now will have been supplied through Muslim sources, wherever they were manufactured.
You give the west way too much 'credit' for influence. The main drivers in this conflict are Syrian born, Syrian made. And the single biggest non-national influencer for many years has been Iran. Iran has played a highly destabilising game across the whole region but especially in Lebanon and Iraq. They may have got what they wanted in Iraq but in Syria and Lebanon their whole strategy looks like it could backfire.
Finally a sensible comment from you. I know, iran is not the 'hero' of the middle east as it potrays it to be. But there are other powers who just do the same, like the US and israel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
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Jedi_Mindset liked this post
will cure this burning in our hearts and grant us victory over his enemies the spawn of the devil of the east & west.
Unity needs to be achieved and fights should be avoided about some disagreements.
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