Child Unwell But Parents Did Not Seek Medical Attention

format_quote Originally Posted by IAmZamzam

“Do not take any human beings life—[the life] which God has willed to be sacred—other than in [the pursuit of] justice.” (Quran 25:68, Asad)

one can argue that children are not human beings. Just like how Muslims argue that fetus is not a human being and can therefore be aborted.

format_quote Originally Posted by LauraS

What, so he shouldn't be dealt with by man made law too?

I hereby reject all man-made law.

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

Just like how Muslims argue that fetus is not a human being and can therefore be aborted.

I haven't been following this thread. But in Islam a fetus is a human being at 4 months of age- that is when it is 'Ensouled' ..

Narrated Jarir: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: He who is deprived of gentleness is deprived of good.

format_quote Originally Posted by العنود

I haven't been following this thread. But in Islam a fetus is a human being at 4 months of age- that is when it is 'Ensouled' ..

Narrated Jarir: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: He who is deprived of gentleness is deprived of good.

I've read 40 days. Not 4 months. Human heart starts beating by 35 days.

Please take that hadith in context. Many kaafirs during Prophet's time were gentle. Abu Jahal etc.

w salam.

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

I've read 40 days. Not 4 months.
Please take that hadith in context. Many kaafirs during Prophet's time were gentle. Abu Jahal etc.
w salam.

It pays to read twice:
http://books.google.com/books?id=agq...hadith&f=false

Your behavior should be yours regardless of whom it is you are dealing with.


Not telling you not to be firm but firmness built upon principle.. I see you direct the same behavior toward Muslims here, even though none of them have imposed opinion on you, they're merely stating the facts!

^^ I stand corrected on the 40 days part. It is 120 days, not 40. Regardless, i think aborting cuz one decided to have a swing one night is an abhorring act.

I've done that only with few Muslims here, if you note. Especially Tyrion and Futuuwa. Others are my brothers and sisters and I have no ill feelings towards them.

w salam

Ok I saw your post toward sr. Insaanah and I wasn't sure what your objections were.
I am glad you agree that abortion is abhorrent and that children are our amanat and that they're all born on fitrah and have no hand in how they're being treated and handled.

Of course. Children are amazing. I loved neonatology.

My only issue was with other ppl trying to dictate what we should do with our own children.

w salam

The manly among men, is not he who says, "My wife and children are my property, so I can do absolutely whatever I like to them."

The manly among men, the defender of his family, is he who says, "Allah has given me a wife and gifted me children, and I fear Allah regarding my treatment of them, and never wish to do any wrong to them. I am their leader and have a big responsibility, and will be questioned as to my treatment of them and behaviour towards them. The Prophet was the best towards his family, and I wish to emulate his example, and to do all halal, kind and desirable things with them. "

It's been said in this thread that a bullet would be put through anyone who told anyone how to treat their family, and also that no homo sapien has the right to tell one how to treat ones family. Among Muslims, we also have those well versed in fiqh of the family, but also practical aspects of family life, marriage maintenance, bringing up kids Islamically, etc. Much can be learned from them. Yet somehow, it is taken that anyone that may attempt to impart good information and tips, is interfering with your family life, and has no right to do so, and such a person should be shot and anything they say rejected outright, or not even listened to.

Words and machoism and exalting of one's own sovereignty is being thrown around here in a manner that is bewildering. Some participating in this thread that might not yet be married, and although we pray it's the case, being gifted with children is ultimately under Allah's control, and you don't even know yet if you'll be able to have any. Similarly, you should know, that when you do have them, you should fear Allah regarding them, and it should not lead you to become proud or pompous and regard them as material property. Some here would say that it can be argued that children are not human. When you have your own children, I wonder if you'll say that about them.

As Muslims, the ummah is supposed to be one body, such that when one part is hurt, the rest responds with wakefulness and fever. We are also told that we are the best of nations because we enjoin the right and forbid the wrong. We are also told, that if we see something wrong, we should change it with our hands, if not with our hands then speak out against it, and if not that, then to hate it in our heart is the weakest of faith.

I hope we can all agree that no parent has the "right" to neglect or abuse the child under their care.

I sincerely hope that every child, Muslim or not, that is starving, abused, neglected, gets the help they deserve, ideally within the context of a family trying their best to improve.

May we all fear Allah as He should be feared and humble ourselves towards Him, ameen.

One can argue that children are not human beings. Just like how Muslims argue that fetus is not a human being and can therefore be aborted.

Why not one-hundred-and-twenty-year-olds too, while we're at it?

I’ve done that only with few Muslims here, if you note. Especially Tyrion and Futuuwa. Others are my brothers and sisters and I have no ill feelings towards them.

We’re all your brothers and sisters. It is synonymous with the very term “Muslim”. And “none of us will ever have faith until he likes for his brother what he likes for himself” (Sahih Bukhari 2:12 I believe).

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl

Yes, I would imagine it is quite a rare stance nowadays. It is certainly not mainstream or "top of the pops" you could say. My passionate worldview has been gradually in decline particularly since the popular rise of socialism and Marxism during the course of the 20th and early 21st centuries as well as socialist cultural imperialism that has been foisted onto non Western countries as well (including Islamic ones). Believe it or not though, recognition of parental sovereignty WAS once extremely mainstream. My position would have been actually the norm and yours would have been considered "odd" to say the least. Interfering in someone else's domestic affairs was considered one big no go zone. Fathers would have reacted violently if outsiders dared attempted to interfere in how they chose to raise their offspring. It would have been regarded as about as confrontationally audacious as trying to burn down his house or abduct his wife.

Well perhaps it's because you went against your own conscience this is why it seems so rare to you. You admitted it yourself you are driven by passion. I think the equivalent arabic word for that (I read on a translated note) was Himya or Hamiya it is an ignorant trait. I also noticed that you've missed the whole chapter in the Quran that condemed arab men who burried their daughters alive because they were considered to be a disgrace to the household or clan. No I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you are not as remarkably outstanding as you seem to think you are and yet ironically it is you who denotes that he is not as arrogant and conceited so as to 'interfere' and save a child from a wrteched infliction caused by their own 'caring' parents. You know many of your likes still exist today and have existed throughout history and for your dismay they weren't prophets nor were they truly believing people either. We can't help it if you don't feel compassionate enough to care about the well-being of your own children. I suppose you'd still stand firmly on your stance if your parents have claimed this right to parental soveregeinty as well?. Or perhaps they already did and it was just a trait that you've inherited from them. But since we 'do' "create "our children then for all we care we can burn them alive now can't we?. Kudos to the merciless empire of parental soveregeinty launching one of the most significant and remotely disasterous revolutions in all history. More power to abusive parents and downplaying to 'evil wicked nosey wretches' who dare to interfere. Funny though you seem to be placing burning down someone's house or abducting his wife on the same footing as 'interfering' with the way they treat their children. *Note: This whole thread by the way is about specifically that; How they treat their children and not how they raise them;big difference*. But hey, why should anyone concern themselves with burning down or abducting the wife of such a man I mean he would eventaully have done it himself anyway; no need to be concerned over that.

Karl, I said this to you before and I'll say it again. It's hightime you get a load of yourself. Seriously.

This behavior in earth language and substracting all those fancy and sophisticated words like 'anarchist' and 'non-conformist' it's simply called being possessive a trait that is driven by the ego. The need to control someone and exhibit absolute power over them even if that someone was your poor helpless child.

Salam alaykum

Hopely things will change at the some day and people learn to think that everything is not just only "interfere" of the domestic matters if there is some sort of abusing/violence inside of the family. I just found from other forum kind of link (sorry it is only by Arabic):


Saudi Arabia launches first anti-domestic violence ad

http://www.kkf.org.sa/ar/Pages/nomoreabuse.aspx

Hopely that wasn´t off topic...

I understand why there are people who do not want their domestic affairs to be interfered with by anyone, your children are your responsibility and you will raise them as you see fit. We are however not perfect beings so if I am doing something that might be putting my children in harm's way unknowingly I think I would certainly want people to stop me from doing so.

Narrated Anas: Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one. People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."

format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

I hereby reject all man-made law.

All man-made law? I thought we were only talking about your own children, but this goes a lot further. Do you also claim to have a right to kill and abuse me and my children if were unable to stop you? And were you to do so, would you say the Police have no business arresting you and that the courts have no business judging and convicting you?

format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah

I hope we can all agree that no parent has the "right" to neglect or abuse the child under their care.

I appreciate your sentiment, but this is obviously false hope, given what we have read here.

I do appreciate the other muslims writing in the thread, and I am convinced that this view Karl and CosmicPathos hold has little to do with Islam. There is something else going on here.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

All man-made law? I thought we were only talking about your own children, but this goes a lot further. Do you also claim to have a right to kill and abuse me and my children if were unable to stop you?

Since I am not Br Cosmic I can't really answer for him but killing innocent people is against Islam so it is unlikely that he would think that he has the right to kill you or any member of your family.

^^ Sure. But you are not member of his family and family matters we have (even mostly) discussed in here. I hope we could stay on original topic, not try to go too far from it.