The scriptures of many religions speak of a coming leader who will consummate the fulfilment of the divine will on Earth. He will manifest in this person the righteousness and compassion of God, and he will bring about the final defeat of evil, and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. The Hebrew title Messiah–’Christ’ in Greek means “anointed one,” that person who will be specially chosen by God for this mission and empowered to accomplish it.
But while the term Messiah is specific to only a few religions, prophecies that a leader will come and accomplish such a mission are nearly universal.
Religions call him by various names: Jews long for the promised Messiah; for Christians the Messiah is Jesus of Nazareth, who has already come and ascended to heaven but will reappear (perhaps in a new guise) at his Second Coming. Muslims also expect the second advent of Jesus, who will come as a Muslim Imam, and among Shiite Muslims there are various expectations of a future Imam Mahdi. Buddhist sutras prophesy the coming of the Maitreya Buddha; Vaishnavite Hindu scriptures prophesy the future descent of an avatar named Kalki; Zoroastrian scriptures prophesy the coming of the Saoshyant; and some Confucian texts speak of a future True Man who will finally bring peace to the world by perfectly instituting the Way of Confucius.
With this in mind and the many faiths and civilisations awaiting the fulfilment of prophesy, could a non-Muslim be the Mahdi, can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?
Yours in faith of the one and only God.
Optimal Unity
Last edited by Insaanah; 10-07-2014 at 06:21 PM.
Reason: Removed religious quotes and parts which may not be correct Islamically, just leaving the main/most important Question
I was just going to post the above too. Sunnis believe in Mahdi. I have no idea about Shia's though.
Shia Muslims put more providence in the Mahdi narratives than Sunni's - the Shia also have their own set of hadeeth and narratives from their imams regarding the mahdi etc - however, when scrutinised, I found that the shia themselves have compromised their ability to find truth due to the meddling of the jews in Iran who posed as Muslims and gave the Iranian Muslims falsified testimony of end times and messianic figure heads.
Please don't ask me to provide proof - it's out there if you search for it.
He will be from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم . And I believe he won't make the claim to be the Mahdi but his work will show it?
Yes Imam Mahdi comes from his(SAW) progeny and he himself is not aware that he is Mahdi and people will not realize he is the Mahdi until the time comes and people will give him Bayah in droves. So the people will anoint him as the Mahdi(RA) before which he will not know he is the Mahdi.
He certainly won't be coming on internet forums looking for followers like opticalillusion
Last edited by InToTheRain; 10-09-2014 at 01:16 PM.
After the death of a Khalifh there shall be intense dispute and difference of opinion in whom should become the next Khalifh. Fearing he may get caught up in the dispute and made the Khalifh, Imaam Mahdi will flee from Madinah to Makkah. However, to his surprise on reaching Makkah, some Makkans will bring him out of his house against his will and take him to Masjid Haraam and 313 as has been mentioned in the hadith reported by Imam Hakim in Al-Mustadrak will force him to accept their Bayat between the Rukn (corner of the Ka'aba containing the black stone) and the place of Ibrahim. The news of his allegiance will quickly spread and thus an army from Syria will be sent to fight him. However no harm will come to Imaam Mahdi nor his followers who will be supported by Allah. The earth will swallow up this army before it can get near to the Imaam in a place called Baidah (a flat piece of land between Makkah and Madinah). After seeing and hearing about this extraordinary event and sign, the Awliya (pious saints) of Syria and Iraq will come to Imaam Mahdi and swear allegiance to him between the black stone and the Maqam (the place of Ibrahim which is near the Ka'aba). (The above content can be found in the Hadith of Umme Salama/Abu Daud)
He will be from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم .
Why will he be from the progeny of Muhammad (pbuh)?
format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin
And I believe he won't make the claim to be the Mahdi but his work will show it?
Hence why I state many religions even civilisations have the prophesy of the comming one, Islam desperately wants to be righteous because they have been the children of Allah and followed the right path, but I "the One" of all prophesy say to you Islam has lost its way, yes the faith of Islam is beyond question, however in reality it has become an unmoving camel waving its tail to swat of the flies of corruption and it is helpless because the leaders have sold out to this Devil based system.
No amount of law will change the evil that presides in the path we have been through in history, Islam had it's chance, the glory days where it spread throughout the globe, where truths were revealed to the followers, but give me a scientist, mathematician, physician a thinker thathas made a mark in this age from the house of Islam, it is a rare commodity, why did it stop where it did, there wore willing converts and the power of the word was strong but it failed to be the global dominion that it was prophesied to be, ask yourself that.
Did it stop because Allah had a different plan? Indeed it did, does not mean Islam is not important to the Ultimate Plan and Truth of humanity just that you are deemed to be equally wrong in history as the rest of them, a new order is required, spiritually politically and practically, everything must change, even Islam.
So you see the work has started, do you not agree with my work?
Yes Imam Mahdi comes from his(SAW) progeny and he himself is not aware that he is Mahdi and people will not realize he is the Mahdi until the time comes and people will give him Bayah in droves. So the people will anoint him as the Mahdi(RA) before which he will not know he is the Mahdi.
He certainly won't be coming on internet forums looking for followers like opticalillusion
Why would he come to the Internet to declare anything the Qur'an and the Hadits were so wise and knowledgeable that they stated He will go to the Kaba blah, blah, he will be of the progeny of Muhammad (pbuh) because we are the right path no one is better than us, we know best because we have thought of everything, maybe just maybe if these things don't occur then we have been fooled as we'll, but why would the followers of Allah be fooled, because Allah is the best of the deceivers, and only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
Shia Muslims put more providence in the Mahdi narratives than Sunni's - the Shia also have their own set of hadeeth and narratives from their imams regarding the mahdi etc - however, when scrutinised, I found that the shia themselves have compromised their ability to find truth due to the meddling of the jews in Iran who posed as Muslims and gave the Iranian Muslims falsified testimony of end times and messianic figure heads.
Please don't ask me to provide proof - it's out there if you search for it.
Scimi
Wow, blaming the Jew, we'll yes they have a lot to answer for, I mean the fooled the Christians, why not the Shia, but then the Sunni believe in Adam and Eve literally so as it seems they fooled everyone even Muhammad (pbuh).
Mods I believe the question has been answered and also Optical Delusion sounds a lot like acausal; both are in need of their meds. We shouldn't allow people to talk garbage about Allah Most High (see below) as it is in your authority to control it.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Why would he come to the Internet to declare anything the Qur'an and the Hadits were so wise and knowledgeable that they stated He will go to the Kaba blah, blah, he will be of the progeny of Muhammad (pbuh) because we are the right path no one is better than us, we know best because we have thought of everything, maybe just maybe if these things don't occur then we have been fooled as we'll, but why would the followers of Allah be fooled, because Allah is the best of the deceivers, and only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
Mods I believe the question has been answered and also Optical Delusion sounds a lot like acausal; both are in need of their meds. We shouldn't allow people to talk garbage about Allah Most High (see below) as it is in your authority to control it.
I take exception to this persons insinuation of me is disgusting, I am Josko Joze Sestan aka Josko Jesus Christ if anyone has question of me.
I love Allah and to insinuate otherwise shows ignorance and a lack of comprehension of the Qur'an:
Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.
Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.
Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
You are quite of a character to be dealt with,this is what I must say.Though you seriously lack the ability to galvanize the audience here,not even close to a imposter Jim Jones(909 is an impressive number). If one could able to get the "follower-ship" by merely posting on internet forums,then trust me I can give you plenty of names present only on this board,the words of whom had influenced thousands around the globe and will continue to be.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?
After a well written post,what a messiah means and how all the major religions of the world are waiting for "the anointed one",you came to what was actually in your mind i.e Declaring yourself as Mahdi(A.S). But it was a failed attempt which shows you have not done the basic homework.When Muslims say "Our Messiah" will come,it means it will Prophet Jesus(A.S). If you went through all the prophetic sayings relating to Mahdi(A.S),you will surely find His stature no matter how High is,will remain secondary to Jesus(A.S). Fact of the matter is we don't even find a single Sahih hadith(which according to Muslims comes next to Quran) mentioning Mahdi(A.S) by his name,his description and events revolving around him.Sunni sources of Hadith stated his name as Muhammad bin Abdullah.
The Messenger of Allah said: "The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.(Abû Dâwûd)
The word "Mahdi" is no where to be found in ahadith but events evolving to his appearance are given.
Umm Salamah reported that the Prophet said, "People will begin to differ after the death of a Khalifah. A man from the people of Madînah will flee to Makkah. Some of the people of Makkah will come to him and drag him out against his will; they will swear allegiance to him between al-Rukn and al-Maqam. An army will be sent against him from Syria; it will be swallowed up in the desert between Makkah and Madînah. When the people see this, groups of people from Syria and Iraq will come and swear allegiance to him. Then a man from Quraysh whose mother is from Kalb will appear and send an army against them, and will defeat them; this will be known as the Battle of Kalb. Whoever does not witness the spoils of this battle will miss much! The Mahdi will distribute the wealth, and will rule the people according to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Then he will die, and the Muslims will pray for him." (Abû Dâwûd)
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
I've been called by Allah to be the Mahdi, how do I become a Muslim?
May I know what altar you worship?It very much seems you are involved in some sought of spiritual practices,
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
All of humanity is Muslim, it is just that they do not remember it?
It has a deep meaning more than you can understand but there ya go:
“So set you (O Muhammad) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic Monotheism) Haneef (worship none but Allaah Alone). Allaah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allaah’s Islamic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq‑illaah (i.e. the religion of Allaah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not” [al-Room 30:30]
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Did it stop because Allah had a different plan? Indeed it did, does not mean Islam is not important to the Ultimate Plan and Truth of humanity just that you are deemed to be equally wrong in history as the rest of them, a new order is required, spiritually politically and practically, everything must change, even Islam.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
Hmm,On one side you accepts Allah's supremacy as All-Knower and on the other hand you very much "know" his plans.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Allah is the best of the deceivers
We know Allah as best of planners not "Deceivers",this title belongs to Satan,the accursed.
“O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents (Adam and Hawwa’ (Eve)) out of Paradise,” (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 27).
O mankind! Be afraid of your Lord (by keeping your duty to Him and avoiding all evil), and fear a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the Promise of Allah is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allah.33rd verse of chapter 31 (sūrat luq'mān).
I don't know what your game is but it looks like cat has come out of the bag now.
Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.
Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.
Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
Here are few translations by well known translators
I take exception to this persons insinuation of me is disgusting, I am Josko Joze Sestan aka Josko Jesus Christ if anyone has question of me.
I love Allah and to insinuate otherwise shows ignorance and a lack of comprehension of the Qur'an:
Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.
Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.
Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
It's best of planners not deceivers...where did you get those references from?
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. 3:54
Then did they feel secure from the plan of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan of Allah except the losing people. 7:99
And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners. 8:30
Last edited by InToTheRain; 10-09-2014 at 08:39 PM.
You are quite of a character to be dealt with,this is what I must say.
Thank you.
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Though you seriously lack the ability to galvanize the audience here,not even close to a imposter Jim Jones(909 is an impressive number). If one could able to get the "follower-ship" by merely posting on internet forums,then trust me I can give you plenty of names present only on this board,the words of whom had influenced thousands around the globe and will continue to be.
A backhand slap is not becoming, but my mission is to galvanise 7+ Billion Souls, I am not interested in followers or a fellow-ship, I need spiritual warriors, the education process on the deliverance of the plan from Allah on that spirituality is a difficult one, but have no doubt once the tipping point is achieved it will be a challenge to manage the fellow-ship.
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Optimal Unity can both the Sunni interpretation of Christ to return be equally fulfilled as the Shia with their call for the Mahdi leader?
After a well written post,what a messiah means and how all the major religions of the world are waiting for "the anointed one",you came to what was actually in your mind i.e Declaring yourself as Mahdi(A.S). But it was a failed attempt which shows you have not done the basic homework.When Muslims say "Our Messiah" will come,it means it will Prophet Jesus(A.S). If you went through all the prophetic sayings relating to Mahdi(A.S),you will surely find His stature no matter how High is,will remain secondary to Jesus(A.S). Fact of the matter is we don't even find a single Sahih hadith(which according to Muslims comes next to Quran) mentioning Mahdi(A.S) by his name,his description and events revolving around him.Sunni sources of Hadith stated his name as Muhammad bin Abdullah.
The Messenger of Allah said: "The Mahdi is of my lineage, with a high forehead and a long, thin, curved nose. He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with oppression and injustice, and he will rule for seven years.(Abû Dâwûd)
The word "Mahdi" is no where to be found in ahadith but events evolving to his appearance are given.
Umm Salamah reported that the Prophet said, "People will begin to differ after the death of a Khalifah. A man from the people of Madînah will flee to Makkah. Some of the people of Makkah will come to him and drag him out against his will; they will swear allegiance to him between al-Rukn and al-Maqam. An army will be sent against him from Syria; it will be swallowed up in the desert between Makkah and Madînah. When the people see this, groups of people from Syria and Iraq will come and swear allegiance to him. Then a man from Quraysh whose mother is from Kalb will appear and send an army against them, and will defeat them; this will be known as the Battle of Kalb. Whoever does not witness the spoils of this battle will miss much! The Mahdi will distribute the wealth, and will rule the people according to the Sunnah of the Prophet. Then he will die, and the Muslims will pray for him." (Abû Dâwûd)
Thank you. However I speak from the guidance of Allah, not from the homework you think is needed to be the anointed one, the anointed one can only be anointed by Allah.
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Optimal Unity I've been called by Allah to be the Mahdi, how do I become a Muslim?
May I know what altar you worship?It very much seems you are involved in some sought of spiritual practices,
You can not prostrate or pray your way to Allah, you need to be of a pure heart and be with Allah, my question was facetious.
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Optimal Unity all of humanity is Muslim, it is just that they do not remember it?
It has a deep meaning more than you can understand but there ya go:
“So set you (O Muhammad) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic Monotheism) Haneef (worship none but Allaah Alone). Allaah’s Fitrah (i.e. Allaah’s Islamic Monotheism) with which He has created mankind. No change let there be in Khalq‑illaah (i.e. the religion of Allaah Islamic Monotheism), that is the straight religion, but most of men know not” [al-Room 30:30] as you are separated from the truth of Mohammed truth We are all Muslim, it is just that some don't remember it, for now I choose not to remember it as it as Islam has failed and needs revision.
It is you that does not comprehend the deep meaning, you see it as most of Islam does, follow the rituals and you are a Muslim, what Allah means is that there are 99 names to Allah he applies those attributes equally to all because we are all Muslim.
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Optimal Unity Did it stop because Allah had a different plan? Indeed it did, does not mean Islam is not important to the Ultimate Plan and Truth of humanity just that you are deemed to be equally wrong in history as the rest of them, a new order is required, spiritually politically and practically, everything must change, even Islam.
Optimal Unity only Allah knows the final hour and only Allah knows the plan.
Hmm,On one side you accepts Allah's supremacy as All-Knower and on the other hand you very much "know" his plans.
Could there be something to Isa and the trinity, God forbid no, we would be so wrong if it did, right?
format_quote Originally Posted by Signor
Optimal Unity Allah is the best of the deceivers
We know Allah as best of planners not "Deceivers",this title belongs to Satan,the accursed.
“O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents (Adam and Hawwa’ (Eve)) out of Paradise,” (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 27).
O mankind! Be afraid of your Lord (by keeping your duty to Him and avoiding all evil), and fear a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the Promise of Allah is true, let not then this (worldly) present life deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver (Satan) deceive you about Allah.33rd verse of chapter 31 (sūrat luq'mān).
I don't know what your game is but it looks like cat has come out of the bag now.
It's best of planners not deceivers...where did you get those references from?
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. 3:54
Then did they feel secure from the plan of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan of Allah except the losing people. 7:99
And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners. 8:30
A plan sometimes requires deceit, is this not part of the intricacy of being a Muslim, to lie to non-believers or the like, you even have a name for it. Nice trap Allah. As I have said above Allah is best at everything why not deceit.
Allah Most High is the Greatest and only has attributes which are Worthy of Him. Deception is not one of them and He has no need to Deceive! Lying is not one of them!
satan on the other hand does and so does dajjal and you are closer to them both.
Provide me the source to your references for your blatant adulteration of the Noble Qur'an you charlatan!
Last edited by InToTheRain; 10-09-2014 at 09:19 PM.
Reason: :X
Anyone wanna buy a 47 story skyscraper in manhattan than can collapse in a record 6.5 seconds?
If so, join the white house "flying debris" competition and it could be yours. (joke)
I got a bridge for sale there too (not).
This thread should be moved to puzzles and humour.
Made me start remembering the promise of victory in these troubled times though, so thanks evangelical delusion (did i get the name/title right?)
I was quite sympathetic despite wondering whether ur an evangelist whom we've seen blueprints of in style and method on this board previously - until you blatantly mistranslated the Quran and blasphemed Almighty God.
But the claims were so fantastic and funny that it somehow lightened the gravity and danger of the accusations.
Don't allow anyone (particularly non-muslims) to quote a 'dodgy' translation (or even invent an incorrect translation), and then ask you to justify something that Allah SWT did not say in the first place. So always ask them where they got it from.
If you look in respectable and trustworthy Qur'an translations, the word مَكَرَ is always translated as 'Planned' or 'Plotted' but not 'Deceived'.
And then, find a Tafseer (such as Ibn Ktheer RhA) and read about this Verse to understand why it was revealed. You will find that Allah SWT Is Talking here about the jews of Banu Isra'il and how they were 'plotting' to kill Jesus AS, but Allah SWT is a Better 'Plotter' since He Replaced His prophet by another person and they ended up killing the other person, not Jesus AS.
You will find that it's about the non-believers of Quraish 'plotting' to ambush, attack and kill our prophet PBUH, however Allah SWT is a far Superior 'Plotter', since our prophet pbuh walked out unharmed, and all they could find was Ali RA in his bed.
Another great Mufassir (i.e. author of Tafseer), Al-Qurtubi RhA, quotes a Hadith in the translation of the first verse above, where our Propher PBUH, said: "O Allah, May You Plot for me, and not against me"
Beware incorrect Quran translations. Especially those written by orientalists (Mustashriqeen).
Allah Most High is the Greatest and only has attributes which are Worthy of Him. Deception is not one of them and He has no need to Deceive! Lying is not one of them!
satan on the other hand does and so does dajjal and you are closer to them both.
Provide me the source to your references for your blatant adulteration of the Noble Qur'an you charlatan!
That is not a valid source and they will adulterate Quran and Sunnah as I have shown you. Read my post before yours please. Foiling a Plot made by deceivers is not "deception" rather it is Justice.
To deceive is beneath Allah Most High, rather He is the best of Planners for those that plan against Him cannot match Him. If you want to learn Islam or discuss it then you will have to use appropriate sources.
I gave up on requesting edits on that site years ago, since, despite their open falsehoods and misrepresentations, they refused to repent of their blasphemies and therefore justify shun and curse.
It also shows the levels to which God's enemies stoop, which is ultimately a blessing in disguise since real researchers of Islam are immunised by it and come to the truth with strength and stability.
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