Immigrants / refugees

format_quote Originally Posted by JohnnyEnglish

Note: Abz2000 .

---

. I'd be grateful if you would refrain from posting in my thread, you are flooding it with volumes of rubbish.

your question itself is trash - considering that you have disregarded all the plain facts surrounding the issue
- and for someone who left britain with his family and moved to a 90% Muslim majority country only to be harmed and had lawful ventures sabotaged, having been offered money to export kilos of heroin by agents of influence for the british government who know i'm being watchedand have previously told me i'm being watched, and then being harassed by it's installed puppet ally which the people tried to remove and were murdered for - certainly creates a clear understanding - specially after having gone to the embassy personally and having requested them to stop the harassment and remove the tracker which has a corruptive influence.
what's telling is how they took all the questions, made me put it in writing, didn't give me an acknowledgement receipt, cut me off and changed the subject when i started to mention the drug pushing, offered me a card with a number regarding my expired passport, didn't reply or respond to any of the accusations, haven't said a word regarding the brain heammorhage they've caused despite taking in the diagnostic reports which they themselves requested me to acquire, all while proudly displayng posters about the girls they save from "forced marriages" in "medieval villages where oxen pull agricultural material".

so next time you ask a stupid question, think about the fact that someone may be feeling like ripping your throat out.

By the way this poll is misleading. What are you asking with it? Are all people whose come now to Europe immigrants or refugees? What if some are immigrants and some refugees? So there should to be the third option like "Both".

Your opinions about immigrants (now you are talking about them, not the refugees whose fleeing for their lives, and hope only to find a safe place) are very typical for the typical Europeans. I read every day from the internet or from the newspapers just similar kind of opinions about refugees and immigrants like your ones. But, remember this, you are now talking about very tiny minority. The majority of the immigrants don´t want to change their new homeland to similar failure what they have moved away. I still advice you to go to talk with immigrants and discuss with them about your thoughts. They don´t bite you, I promise but you can learn to understand them better than you do now. And they too will learn to understand your fears and doubts you seem to have because of them, their different habits or their different dressings.

if you've spoken on behalf of the people of britain, i advise the Muslims to get out of London before the day of Arafah unless the Queen, her government and people repent and submit to Allah.
Don't say you haven't been warned.

And those who disbelieved, said to their Messengers: "Surely, we shall drive you out of our land, or you shall return to our religion." So their Lord inspired them: "Truly, We shall destroy the Zalimun (polytheists, disbelievers and wrong-doers.).

You know, the world is all full of a lot of cultures, spread over the smallest as well as biggest areas. And the specific culture in a place changes, cultures change a lot. We do need to remember that France used to be Gaul, and Celtic instead of a Germanic-Latin fusion of sorts, and the rest of the list I won't talk about. And I think that is the problem that most people are fearing, as to how these cultures are recognized and how our cultures are changing.

We've established that people can fit in these two groups of unwilling and willing people, and these two reasonings. Now, the refugees, they don't have a choice, they can't decide if they have to go, it is a decision enforced on them instead of chosen by them. We can't blame them if they settle somewhere, and they usually don't go that far, most of the Syrian refugees have gone to Jordan, and likely none to Oman. These refugees also aren't affecting culture that much, since both are Arabs. So I think we can excuse that. I also think they would go back to their own nation if it got fixed, and I mean really fixed.

Now, there is a lot of people migrating, who totally abandon their cultural values, and that is a lot of people. These people, as I said, migrate for economic reasons. Many don't have the culture, tying them, and they fit in, and this is happening a lot. Now, the nation they are migrating to, won't remain homogenous that much, as in 100 percent, but their culture, which is attracting people so much, won't topple so much because these people aren't migrating to bring their culture. As I also said, if the Islamic world is fixed, this economic gap will also fill. I believe, the cultural fixing and administration fixing will make the idea of migrating for economic reasons, useless, because there is no incentive to migrate.

Now, is there any other reason left? Why else would people migrate if they neither need an economically better life. Tourists don't live someplace forever, do they? This is all there is to it, and this is the most basic idea and hope of Muslims with hope, to fix our world, so we don't leave it.


By the way, I found this great article on another website, I think it can help a bit. Hope it does.

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/hijrah.htm

EDIT: By the way, I found some numbers from Wikipedia with the United Nations as a Source. A total of 4.08 million refugees. 2.13 million into Turkey, 1.19 million into Lebanon, 1.4 million into Jordan, and these are the top three. The rest are below 300 thousand. Germany, the European country with the most, got 105 thousand, Greece 88 thousand.

format_quote Originally Posted by JohnnyEnglish

That is the question I asked - are they refugees fleeing war or economic migrants trying to get into a prosperous, safe, well managed country and the consensus amongst the members here is that they are the latter. If they were refugees feeling war they wouldn't pay E4,000 to get into a leaking boat and risk their lives leaving Turkey a stable safe Muslim country.

You asked the question but you have already decided what is the right answer.

Are you sure that Turkey is a safe and stable country? If you would be in the life danger, would you take a risk (and pay everything you have) to be sure you can find a place where you are safe? I would. Its only a money and to me my life is more valuable than all the money of this world.

Yes, those masses whose now are coming to Europe are refugees.

I read every day from the internet and newspapers similar "evidences" like this your one - from there people whose say that of course its needed to help people in need but those whose are now coming here aren´t real ones etc. They refuse to see the reality but call these people as "economic refugees". Specially kind of hate-speech comes from the supporters of the far-right parties.

Greetings and peace be with you JohnnyEnglish;

How hypocritical are you?

You cannot call desperate people hypocrites, especially from the comfort and safety of your own fairly peaceful home. You cannot comprehend the misery and suffering they have endured, and how they came to make their decisions to move, unless you have experienced it yourself.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

I see that now people would have a good opportunity to show to those people in need the best of themselves and try to help if they ever can. Europeans claim so often (well some, not all of course) that Islam is not very peacefull religion, specially comparing to their own one. Its a good time to behave now as "the Good Samaritan". In here some have already done so, the ordinary people have took refugees to live to their homes as well the churches have opened their doors for the emergency accommodation situations. From news I have read how people have gave food and water to refugees etc.

Its much better than spread own prejudices in the social media.

I would like to challenge all Europeans: show in the practice how kind and peaceful your religion is, when you meet a person in distress. Do you walk away (and go back to internet to claim these people are not real refugees at all) or do you stop and ask can you help?

Why we wouldn´t try to look this matter of refugees from the other perspective:

Many European countries suffer from demographic distortion and low birth rate. On a shame that Europeans do not see the refugees a good thing that many refugees are young people who are the future starting a family and have children. Humane Europeans unfortunately sometimes say that these refugees are the wrong kinds of people and they have the wrong religion. They refuse to understand that Europe has always been a multicultural area by several local cultures, values of life and religions.

Some say that those refugees will destroy the original European culture. Hmm... now in the Europe population is about 750 million people. Few more millions wouldn´t do anything for the average "European culture" - what ever it really is.