Paris Attacks

Im now confused on where this thread is heading ? Wht r we discussing here ?

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

That actually made me want to cry because it is well-said and very, very beautiful.

Awwww you cuddly thing.

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

The funny thing is I don't hate anyone in the world either, and I don't know why anyone would want to give into hatred either. Hatred begets hatred, and love begets love. I'd rather indulge in the latter.
Thanks for sharing.

Then it would be nice of you if you support the idea of those who've been abused and harmed for decades while the whole world and u.n looked on, to stand and excercise their right to live in an independent state ruled by God's laws.
When they get working on civil administration, food distribution, and nation building ( they have been commended for the results and lack of corruption) it's wiser to let them work peacefully rather than scream "omg their tryina teach sheraya law! let's elimnate them like a cancer".

Allah is testing mankind as He did when He sent the she-camel to thamud.

What about the day of the siege?...

format_quote Originally Posted by sfontel

So, I read all.....can you clarify some things?

most of them said "bukhari" "sahih Muslim" "ibn majah" and "Quran" beneath, the first four amongst meny others are recorded narrations attributed to the Prophet pbuh, the fifth is the Quran which one can be certain about, even if future events are described.

I would need to sit at a table with a team of people who are knowledgeable on the subject and sincere in their will to serve God and do what pleases Him, i would need a projector, a laptop, internet connection and lots of coffee before i can even imagine that i'd get you detailed answers that i'd feel confident in presenting as most likely certain, even then, since they're hadith and not Quran, and especially since they describe prophecy/eschcatology, none other than God can be 100% certain of what's going to happen until it happens.
I can however provide you with info on what is happenng to the best of my knowledge.

format_quote Originally Posted by sfontel

Lol....its not about the , or who lol first or last....but its important to lol!... Lol....

Scientists dont know why we lol....all we know is that is good...so it must had come from God as He says in His word...

God bless!

It is good to lol or use irony or light banter once in a while, but sometimes it doesn't fit lol (stand at ease)



We must try to stay nearer to topic and it's surrounding events despite the fact that conversations sometimes branch off until the topic is almost forgotten, or we can discuss it on another thread - definitely is interesting stuff.
Atten-tion.

Ok, i don't want to be a spoilsport for no reason, since you're in the laughing mood, maybe let the irony give us a prod to think more critically, something deeply stimulating about the onion is that it actually make you think, and learn to be in shield mode when switching on the t.v:

This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t

POINT/COUNTERPOINT*

March 26, 2003
VOL 43 ISSUE 12**
*War*·*Iraq*·*Opinion

This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism

Nathan Eckert

George W. Bush may think that a war against Iraq is the solution to our problems, but the reality is, it will only serve to create far more.This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher. It will not end the threat of weapons of mass destruction; it will make possible their further proliferation. And it will not lay the groundwork for the flourishing of democracy throughout the Mideast; it will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence.
If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up.
Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents?
In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause.
From this war, a million bin Ladens will bloom.And what exactly is our endgame here? Do we really believe that we can install Gen. Tommy Franks as the ruler of Iraq?
Is our arrogance and hubris so great that we actually believe that a U.S. provisional military regime will be welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people? Democracy cannot possibly thrive under coercion. To take over a country and impose one's own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy. And it is doomed to fail.A war against Iraq is not only morally wrong, it will be an unmitigated disaster.

No It Won't

Bob Sheffer

No it won't.It just won't. None of that will happen.You're getting worked up over nothing. Everything is going to be fine. So just relax, okay? You're really overreacting.
"This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher"?It won't."It will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence"?
Not really.
"A war against Iraq is not only morally wrong, it will be an unmitigated disaster"?
Sorry, no, I disagree.
"To take over a country and impose one's own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy"?
You are completely wrong.
Trust me, it's all going to work out perfect. Nothing bad is going to happen. It's all under control.
Why do you keep saying these things? I can tell when there's trouble looming, and I really don't sense that right now. We're in control of this situation, and we know what we're doing. So stop being so pessimistic.
Look, you've been proven wrong, so stop talking. You've had your say already. Be quiet, okay? Everything's fine.
You're wrong.

The following clip is deep irony that works like a fox news antidote:



It's also ironic that some people expect to see genuine lgbt liberal type islamists as a result:



Then you'll also have those who'd clamour to take the blame for blowing up the sun on a bright and sunny july afternoon if someone asked them to:

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb

Are those whose make kind of attacks "our brothers"?

Yes indeed, even if they make crimes and terrorist attack, they remain our brothers...

If we fall in the trap of saying "they are kuffar" then they will no difference between them and us.

My point is that in Islam, you need to help our Muslim brother if he is oppressed or even if he is an oppressor, that's what the prophet Mohamed said.
One of the Sahabis told him "How can we do that?" the prophet replied by saying that we need to help him by making him stop his oppression.

Salaam

If the mods are awake they need to clean out this thread because it gone way off topic.

Thanks.

format_quote Originally Posted by AhmedGassama

Yes indeed, even if they make crimes and terrorist attack, they remain our brothers...

If we fall in the trap of saying "they are kuffar" then they will no difference between them and us.

My point is that in Islam, you need to help our Muslim brother if he is oppressed or even if he is an oppressor, that's what the prophet Mohamed said.
One of the Sahabis told him "How can we do that?" the prophet replied by saying that we need to help him by making him stop his oppression.

I appreciate your view, it´s far more tolerant than what we many times can see for example also in this forum. Unfortunately I have read often how people write as "if you think or do or say this or that you are kafir, you have left Islam etc.".

Obama's Freudian Slip - he admits to training ISIS / ISIL / Daesh



Scimi

format_quote Originally Posted by Akingfisher

I think you have a poor understanding of Western Democracy!

# 1 Not everyone votes, I am in my mid fifties and have never ever voted nor has my wife or grown up children.

# 2 Even those who vote, they do not have control er the elected government. Because it is an 'Elitist' Democracy where once in power, the government usually do what they think is right for the population.
Regardless of whether it is good or bad!

# 3 Therefore, it is only the people who voted for the winning party that have elected them. The losers who voted otherwise did not elect them.

# 4 Even those who voted for the winning party tend to do so for other social and economic reasons.

# 5 Even when Western Governments decide that military action is necessary somewhere, there can be and often is, some opposition to that.

# 6 Your thinking seems to be the same as al Qaeda and bin laden. Which is that because people live in a Democracy that makes them automatic supporters of the Government and it's actions.
Which then makes them all legitimate targets for revenge attacks including on civilians!



The 9/11 attacks have been claimed as a victory for allah by muslims who praise the 'Magnificent 19' by groups such as Al Muhajiroun on it's website.
Also, muslims demonstrating in the UK a while ago, were waving placards and screaming Europe you will pay 9/11 on it's way, bin laden on his way etc!
Anjem Choudary claims it as a victory for allah too!

Therefore, unless the 'Magnificent 19' and all their supporters were/are working for the West, it was a muslim attack!

God knows! I spent about 26 years of my life there in total after excluding trips to the middle east and south-east, i didn't really notice many people bothering or feeling bothered by the criminal regime in the u.k though for all it's crimes against mankind and it's self-debasing rebellion towards God. i was at the 2005 protest though and was quite hopeful of some sort of positive change, didn't happen and the people seemed to have the ability to forget quickly - t.v and entertainment (often very lewd) seems the main diet after duly servicing the corporate machine and that appears to be the be-all and end-all of life there for the majority. The riotously active tottenham protests were easily steered into a looting frenzy that was easily discredited and promptly clamped down upon. Those people were the deprived section (hope lies within the proles) but since they had no spiritual structure they were routed almost predictably.
Feels like a cattle driven science with much sensual pleasure as the cattle rod. They can even count the number of hours and subsequent taxes they're going to get out of their subjects on any given day almost to a tee. A little akin to the brave new world, metropolis or orwellian models, alcohol, intoxicating liquors, drugs and anti-depressants are like the soma replacement and as they say "jus' one gram and you won't give a da*n". If found it quite audacious when i read a reporter in a mainstream newspaper telling people they could have an extra hour in bed because the clocks were going to change, like slavery to corporations on a religious scale. Fajr doesn't jump an hour though, it stays gradual fluctuations. God is great.

In the majority Muslim countries however, people appear more aware, and come out protesting and burning tyres and pelting corrupt soldiery in spite of being threatened with western despot "gifted" live ammo by western backed despots who go after the most righteous and outspoken in society. And people pray regularly and keep these serious things in mind when conversing with God and when talking to each other at the tea stall rather than just get programmed by the t.v.
Even in the land where the western backed and regularly blackmailed saudi mafia practice tight control on almost everything electronic and social, one notices the cast down look in people's eyes when one mentions the cause or the recently murdered scholar whose words were having an effect.

You complemented me on my style of thinking and i can definitely say i am pleasantly humbled that you go as far as comparing it to that of such noble revolutionaries. Of course, most of the information you get on them is in the mass media and reflective parroted comments sections, it would however give you a wealth of knowledge to actually take the time to listen to some of their speeches and unbiased interviews and compare them with the Quran and contrast that with the corrupt and two faced methods of the western mafia politicians and media tycoons, themself mired deep in and almost exclusively promoting sexual deviance, international mass drug pushing, arms and protection (blackmail) rackets under tin pot despots.

You clearly note that the incessant lies, the baseless, twisted and regularly changed reasons and excuses of the kafir governments and media in their attempted rationale for attacking Islam and Muslims never hold water for long, but as hitler explained, the lie is only necessary for as long as it takes the work to be carried out, narratives can always be changed. Though that kind of mindset is insulting to a thinking mind that can put at least 5-10 years of promises and events into a balanced, unconfused perspective. (hence the flesh flashing and soma).

You, maybe, at the very least have replayed the collapse of wtc7 (the one that no plane hit) a few times and wondered how those other huge steel and concrete columns untouched by smoke or fire symmetrically disappeared before the upper floors symmetrically descended at near gravitational speed where near zero vertical upwards resistance is encountered? However, it's easy to do the math and homework these days, maybe sit down with a physics teacher and run some calculations.

We know bin ladin has on multiple times denied having carried out the operation, despite his clear stance and readiness to claim responsibility for other acts, do you think it was out of fear that the americans might kill him if he admitted to it?
You'll also find that despite the relentless sleight of the tongue associations made by the politicians and lamestream media, he was never officially indicted for the events of 09/11/2001 and that the event was not mentioned on his list of crimes "wanted" page?

What tends to happen however is that many outspoken people are put in a position where they will have to appear to condemn these acts even if they are false flags, and with the use of mocking, eye rolling critics will be made to appear as dismissable loons , who through the fact that they condemn the act accept the invalidity of the right for Muslims to retaliate for crimes much worse in magnitude and horror that have been committed against normally helpless Muslims on a regular basis, crimes rarely given time on the prime time slots and almost always presented in a heavily sanitized fashion (the lipstick, make-up and cleavage on the anchors usually chosen for such presentations prevent one from feeling the horror for start - basic instinct manipulation), so they (those interviewed) usually prefer to speak directly upon the merit of the acts and their context and they are usually much more aware of the other side of the story and the bigger picture than the average news viewer.

Consider the following statements and wonder why you rarely see it like this on tv:

1996:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...96-fatwa_1996/

September 2001 interview:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/intervi...-in-9-11/24697

2002 letter to america:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...24/theobserver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXhos7yEhc

Do these people appear to you as ruthless, diabolical psychopathic, undignified, money chasing, lying impulsive murderers or as people with abundant sympathy for the oppressed to the extent that they are willing to sacrifice personal priveliges and suffer harm?
Do they seem like the satanic, atheistic anarchist, earthly, hellbound types or do they appear as genuine people who are firm upon faith in God and the fact that they will meet Him?

What are these people saying to you and how affected are you by their pleas? What will you do to try and set things right?
Will it be bikinis and dancing at the concert while the government you own invades, massacres and bombs innocent men, women and children regularly based upon total lies which they know they can afford to tell you with the understanding that you'll not care much or not care at all, or if you do care, that you won't care for long, and that you'll sit passively or feel relieved when they come after the outspoken or active neighbour, or that you'll say "he was actually a nice fella" and the drinking buddy next to you will say "that's what they always say about the serial killer next door!" and you'll both have a laugh and drown out any clarity of thought by the last pint of the night.

Consider that just recently, they beseiged, shot and bombed a girl who must've known something more about the "phantom on the prowl" while the neighbours cowered and then brazenly claimed she blew herself up with a suicide vest - only after the "we're protecting you from the rebels we've been setting up" action show had slightly died down (of course- only after dismal approval ratings were slightly rectified) did they admit she didn't blow herself up.
They called her, got her exact co-ordinates and just started firing.
They did it to De Menzies the electrician after 7/7 too - and even suicided the nurse who started voicing her concerns - after using the press who'd called her a brave heroine before - to discredit her as a depressed loser first of course.
Why don't you bother or care, and even worse, why do you look at Muslims like the kids who'd look at winston smith and cry: "goldstein"?
Do you expect Muslims to smile and tell you how they approve of non-violence, homosexual marriages and moon worship, that they drink cider or smoke crack on the sly at the local strip-club rest room where women are regularly honoured (as long as they submit the government's cut in taxes) and that they hate Islamic law and hate God with a passion while they bleed to death every day of every year?
Or do you expect them to say they'll smile and do the rest as long as atheists agree to stop somehow falsely justifying invading them for wmd or other false flags and bleeding them dry?

Sit down for a moment and consider what's really happening.
What part are you playing in setting things right?
You claim to disown the corrupt leaders, would you, your public servant police forces and majesty's soldiers stand aside while the Islamists deal with them for you? Or would you cheer at a foiled "treasonous" guy fawkes like plot and light a bonfire every year to celebrate?

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

(In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent)

Hi Akingfisher, welcome to the board! I'd seen your first post and wondered if you were going to post again - glad to see you're back!

That said, I'd stay away from Abz, as most of what he writes is simply difficult for a rational person to get their heads around. Also, in his world, everything seems to be black and white, and therefore I think you'll have a better chance of having a satisfying conversation with the wall than him.

When crypto-nite seethes, superman glows
i enjoy the contrast actually, especially when i'm seen as the antithesis of posters such as you.
Hell - who in their right mind wouldn't? Ur better off waving a banner at the lgbt march.