You'll always side with the Muslim, no matter what they do, because they are on your "team"? Is that it?
Well, this is a good question actually deserving to be answered as it is.
Last time i avoided clear answer because it touched my own old suppressed concern.
The concern is about possibility of long-therm planning of peacefull coexistance, fear that one day Muslim World, not just some extremists groups, will decide to conquer disbelievers and force them to accept Islam before the Judgement Day.
First of all, as an atheist, you can consider Islam as a moral values system and a political system altogether based on Quran, Hadiths, which understanding and interpretation is evolving in time in response to the changing world.
There are different political systems on this planet, sometime some are getting crazy and creating problems to the humanity, Islam history is far behind the worst examples.
The best humanity can do is to stay integrated, to learn the best from each other.
I was trying to find an e-book or pdf of mr nice, the autobiography of howard marks where he mentions that when he went on the run, he'd keep seeing these funny newspaper stories of how he'd died, been killed by the mafia, etc, one guy apparently confessed to killing him and burying him under a motorway, which is why when any "confessions" by immanuel goldstein like characters come out, history should always be kept in mind.
The reason i don't jump to the false flag stories straight away despite many of them being so is because of the "what if" factor that keeps getting pulled out, 9/11 is obvious to all with a normally functioning brain by now however some still manage to pluck up the courage to roll their eyes.
It's fake, kind of using bug of twitter to set wrong date.
I just have never used twitter, can't validate, but here is some video with explanation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wl_Q0qKEd1E
I think that this is so serious matter that we shouldn´t make this thread as the playground of conspiracy theorists!
They're all conspiracy theories, other than what is fact and Allah knows the facts well.
thirty people don't just spontaneously appear and carry out a co-ordinated attempt to rectify the tally on behalf of the Muslims who have been murdered, they would have to conspire first.
Truth be told, I'm sorry for the people who senselessly lost their lives. I know that Allah SWT is never happy with senseless killing anywhere.
That being said, I'm very, very, very tired, tired of the direction in which this world is heading.
When I read comments' sections of any Internet news, I see so many hateful comments against Muslims and Islam; and I feel if they honestly feel even half those things in their heart that they openly write under the anonymity of the Internet, then indeed I know that is indeed a very bad sign for Muslims everywhere. Also, it is a bad sign for the liberty and justice as they'll always take a backseat in moments of wide panic and distress.
Other times, from a vocal minority of Muslims on social media and elsewhere on the Internet, upset at the endless wars and bloodshed in Muslim nations due to foreign intervention, state or propagate the idea that Muslims condemning attacks like those in Paris are somehow either "less of a Muslim" or a sympathizer to some nation's agenda or an apologist.
Sometimes, it feels like you can't win - no matter what.
Perhaps I'm taking the risk of sounding like a naive idiot, but I want peace. Peace. Seriously.
When I go out on the streets, for example, I don't want to be concerned that some non-Muslim might want to attack me or those in my position because they think that I'm somehow responsible for all the evil of the extremists. I also don't want to worry that some Muslim extremist will believe civilians (including me) walking the street are valid targets of vengeance simply because governments have taken actions responsible for lives lost elsewhere.
For all the differences that we as human beings, we share a common humanity. I think that should be the most important; that is what attracts me to Islam, the message of trying to make yourself and the world a better place by trying to live out the best character as exemplified in prophetic tradition.
Yes, we're all different, yet we're all the same too. I wish we'd remember the sameness when things like this happen.
Salaam Brother... I wish and I sincerely pray that you try to understand the Khawarij (Extremist) mentality. They take Hadith and Verses of the Quran in their own way. They interpret them in isolation.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Did you stop the french government from its thousands of atrocities in the past few months?
The overt bombing campaign began in september.
Holy Prophet (May be upon him) said: Beware. every one of you is a shepherd and every one is answerable with regard to his flock. The Caliph is a shepherd over the people and shall be questioned about his subjects (as to how he conducted their affairs). A man is a guardian over the members of his family and shall be questioned about them (as to how he looked after their physical and moral well-being). A woman is a guardian over the household of her husband and his children and shall be questioned about them (as to how she managed the household and brought up the children). A slave is a guardian over the property of his master and shall be questioned about it (as to how he safeguarded his trust). Beware, every one of you is a guardian and every one of you shall be questioned with regard to his trust. (Muslim Book #020, Hadith #4496)
..you and I will only be questioned about our jurisdiction and what did we do based on our influence and limited authority to help the oppressed. At this moment we can help the oppressed by educating people and helping financially and by providing moral and emotional support. It would be the Caliphs/Leaders of the Muslim world who have the responsibility of defending the oppressed because their jurisdiction is much more wider than yours and mine.
...So picking up arms to kill innocent civilians who don't even know what their western leaders are doing, is outright Zhulm (Injustice) and as Muslims we need to condemn if it comes from one of our own.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
It is indeed our sacred duty to ondemn oppression, and the kuffar of France became an embodiment of that oppression.
Their account is not yet even, they can save themselves by sincerely repenting to Allah, for the right of the Syrians to make nafs for nafs Qisas for all thise killed in French massacres and airstrikes has not been excercised.
Repent, or may Allah make qisas on behalf of the oppressed.
Who gives you the authority to make them repent? Repentance is a matter between an individual and His Lord Al Mighty. Did Allah (swt) reveal a secret revelation to you or ISIS that commands that they should go and take revenge on innocent populations in the world on behalf of Allah (swt)? Do you even understand the concept of Qisas that you are applying to this terrorist attack? Do you know how Qisas works?
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Chapter Name:Al-Anfal Verse No:38
008:038*Maulana:
Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return, then the example of those of old has already gone.[/quote]
This Ayah is a warning from Allah (swt) about the natural disasters that overtook people of the old times. This is in no way implying that Allah (swt) wants the believers to do His job.
Did the Prophet (Peace be upon him) send assassins to Makkah to target the pagan leaders of the Quraish tribe like Abu Sufyan and others who were in a land which was not only non Muslim but continuously hostile to Islam and Muslims of Madinah? Did he ever make a declaration of apostasy against the whole Makkan population and ordered his companions to attack and spill their blood on the caravan routes? He (saw) didn't even shed a single drop of blood when they had conquered Makkah.
Terrorism is act of Shaytan and not our Beloved Mercy for all Mankind (Peace be upon him). ISIS follows shaytan.
Syed z, please refrain from chatting utter crap, go read the Quran and the seerah before you start twisting and distorting Islam ok?
You sound like ka'b ibn ashraf telling the pagans that they were more guided than the Prophet pbuh because he was fighting against kith and kin, or like those fools who thought the prophet pbuh and the sahabah were evil because they raided the caravans of quraish despite the fact that it was mainly the leadership of Quraish was responsible for the oppression against the Muslims, or like the so called Muslims who were forced to come out against the Muslims at badr, go check up on the conquest of Makkah and the totally merited death sentences only cancelled upon repentance and shahadah, the command to people break idols ecen in their own homes.
Go do a little study of the law of qisas and don't you dare ever claim that you live in a democracy unless you're willing to bear the responsibility of the actions of your leaders.
Go ask your beloved president how he plans to pay penitence for the near to a million Muslims killed over the past ten years in the name of this false and manufactured war on terror.
What have you showed the world in the 100 years since 1914 other than false flags, bloody wars, mass murders and utter lies upon lies to the people of the planet, weapons of mass destruction, atomic bombs, the massacre in fallujah and the slaughter in the mosques, and corrupt elections, the enslavement and humuliation of Muslims, the prevention and sabotage against people who seek to understand Islam, the sabotage of the unity of Muslims and their attempts to erect real Islamic leadership?
If you don't like Islam and we all want peace, then at least don't harrass the Muslims in the lands where they are a majority and allow those who's way of life you can't agree with to migrate in peace and allow the Muslims to financially assist those who find it difficult to migrate, and if the kuffar choose to, let the kuffar live in confused decadence until they realise that peace and dignity come from submission to Allah.
The people of France and it's president had no valid reason to destabilise syria thousands of kilometers away, to prevent Muslims from living according to the law of Allah, to arrest people who were trying to migrate to the lands of Islam, or to start bombing the Syrian people last september.
They need to repent and beg Allah's forgiveness because the law of equal qisas is for humans, however, if Allah has to intervene it's a different story.
One thing that people do need to bear in mind however is that they have no right to kill more kuffar in France than number of Muslims the French kuffar have unjustly killed, but if they repent, establish regular prayer, and give regular zakah you must forgive them and let Allah reward you for your hurt and loss of loved ones.
Syed z, please refrain from chatting utter crap, go read the Quran and the seerah before you start twisting and distorting Islam ok?
You sound like ka'b ibn ashraf telling the pagans that they were more guided than the Prophet pbuh because he was fighting against kith and kin, or like those fools who thought the prophet pbuh and the sahabah were evil because they raided the caravans of quraish despite the fact that it was mainly the leadership of Quraish was responsible for the oppression against the Muslims, or like the so called Muslims who were forced to come out against the Muslims at badr, go check up on the conquest of Makkah and the totally merited death sentences only cancelled upon repentance and shahadah, the command to people break idols ecen in their own homes.
Go do a little study of the law of qisas and don't you dare ever claim that you live in a democracy unless you're willing to bear the responsibility of the actions of your leaders.
Go ask your beloved president how he plans to pay penitence for the near to a million Muslims killed over the past ten years in the name of this false and manufactured war on terror.
I see that you are quite frustrated as the killing of innocent civilians has no basis in Islam whatsoever, unless God Himself has designated this task to people like ISIS, which obviously is impossible. I know that Allah (swt) will not ask me why President of France did so and so, but I tell you that ISIS minded individuals will have to do a lot of answering before Allah (swt) for what they're doing....
May Allah (Swt) guide you as your understanding of Islam is incorrect. Sadly for you killing any civilian is Qisas!
What have you showed the world in the 100 years since 1914 other than false flags, bloody wars, mass murders and utter lies upon lies to the people of the planet, weapons of mass destruction, atomic bombs, the massacre in fallujah and the slaughter in the mosques, and corrupt elections, the enslavement and humuliation of Muslims, the prevention and sabotage against people who seek to understand Islam, the sabotage of the unity of Muslims and their attempts to erect real Islamic leadership?
If you don't like Islam and we all want peace, then at least don't harrass the Muslims in the lands where they are a majority and allow those who's way of life you can't agree with to migrate in peace and allow the Muslims to financially assist those who find it difficult to migrate, and if the kuffar choose to, let the kuffar live in confused decadence until they realise that peace and dignity come from submission to Allah.
The people of France and it's president had no valid reason to destabilise syria thousands of kilometers away, to prevent Muslims from living according to the law of Allah, to arrest people who were trying to migrate to the lands of Islam, or to start bombing the Syrian people last september.
They need to repent and beg Allah's forgiveness because the law of equal qisas is for humans, however, if Allah has to intervene it's a different story.
One thing that people do need to bear in mind however is that they have no right to kill more kuffar in France than number of Muslims the French kuffar have unjustly killed, but if they repent, establish regular prayer, and give regular zakah you must forgive them and let Allah reward you for your hurt and loss of loved ones.
So let me get this striaght -Do you believe the organisation (Isis) that enslaves and rapes Yazidi women to be on the path of God?
Do you believe the death of Alan Henning (a man that was helping the syrian refugees) to be a moral act?
Do you believe that Muslims who want to kill citizens of a certain country by leaving it and planning attacks against it to be just? Should other countries with majority Muslim populations allow there own citizens to do the same thing?
Why do you love the al qeada Imam Anwar al waki so much? and no other person on the planet.
Do you believe suicide attacks in Lebanon, Yemen and most of the Muslim world are justified?
Last edited by Zafran; 11-16-2015 at 05:28 AM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
One thing that people do need to bear in mind however is that they have no right to kill more kuffar in France than number of Muslims the French kuffar have unjustly killed, but if they repent, establish regular prayer, and give regular zakah you must forgive them and let Allah reward you for your hurt and loss of loved ones.
You really do live in a tribal world don't you? You speak in the language of tribal blood feud. Kill this many of them because they killed this many of us. It doesn't matter who in particular you kill, or if they have absolutely anything whatsoever to do with the killing of our people, so long as they are born into that other tribe. This is how you sound. I'm not sure if you understand how democracy works either. You can vote against, protest against, and do everything you can against a regime, and still see that regime get voted in and do things you don't like or support. It would be one thing to hold people like Bush and Blair accountable for war crimes, etc. It is quite another to point out random civilians and say they should die because of where they were born. That is sheer sociopathic lunacy.
That you approve of and endorse the killing of innocent civilians because they are French doesn't surprise me, given your posting history, including that infamous post wherein you called for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals. But really, I had hoped you'd made some progress towards common empathy.
Last edited by Pygoscelis; 11-16-2015 at 10:29 AM.
The powerful hacker group takes on the middle eastern militant force, as we see a cyber battle between the unknown masked men and the people who want for everyone to see them. It is black and white versus black and white. Find out the results, this Monday night!
It has been narrated on the authority of 'Arfaja who said:
I have heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Different evils will make their appearance in the near future. Anyone who tries to disrupt the affairs of this Umma while they are united you should strike him with the sword whoever he be.
I see that you are quite frustrated as the killing of innocent civilians has no basis in Islam whatsoever, unless God Himself has designated this task to people like ISIS, which obviously is impossible. I know that Allah (swt) will not ask me why President of France did so and so, but I tell you that ISIS minded individuals will have to do a lot of answering before Allah (swt) for what they're doing....
May Allah (Swt) guide you as your understanding of Islam is incorrect. Sadly for you killing any civilian is Qisas!
There is a huge difference between an innocent civilian and an admitted and participating shareholder with a stake in injustice in a mercenary and unjust nation.
If you claim to be a participant in a democracy, you are the boss of your leader and his actions are taken with your blessing and under your control, you will have to bear the burden and consequence of your leaders acts in such case.
I notice that that you have refused to resort to the Allah's laws and will in your constant bickering and prodding and are resorting to arrogantly speaking nonsense light an ignorant monkey taunting a lion, peace be to those who follow the guidance, i shall resort to the book of Allah and His guidance instead of wasting my time bickering with fools.
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
So let me get this striaght -Do you believe the organisation (Isis) that enslaves and rapes Yazidi women to be on the path of God?
I believe that the u.s government brutalized the people of Iraq and caused many of them to think diifferently from the way you think, the stories of the iraqi Muslim sisters would make any sincere Muslim want to obtain retribution from the kuffar invaders.
yazidis were given a clear and unambiguous call to repent to Allah and accept the law of God or leave, their safe and secure migration would have been facilitated had they taken the lower option of being content with kufr of God and not fearing standing before Him, it was the U.S and french governments who were guilty of keeping them on site with false stage managed acts until there was a scene from which they derived propaganda, why did they not pick them up peacefully and take them as pets before the siege?
These details have been looked at further in the relvant thread.
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you believe the death of Alan Henning (a man that was helping the syrian refugees) to be a moral act?
If i knew exactly what Alan hemming was eally doing in the region i would be in more of a position to answer the question, there are many western mainstream media reports of some of the pasts of those claiming to be peaceful aid workers as being from zionist backgrounds which they actively sought to erase from the web after their capture, many mercenaries also use the disguise of aid workers and missionaries.
I believe it would be unjust to kill Alan hemming if was genuinely seeking to distribute food or lawful medical supplies to the people of Syria without any intended malice.
if he was a mercenary, unlawfully invading soldier or "civilian contractor" working for a mercenary firm or country that was commiting injustice and aiming to oppose Allah and his messengers and the law and will of Allah, in order to foolishly attempt to make the kufr of Allah above belief in and submission to Allah, then his crime is a capital offence.
Do you believe the killing of around a million Muslim men, women and children over the past ten years were moral acts?
Do you believe the people of Iraq should have been killed under the guise of removing Saddam Hussain for crimes he had committed as a friend, ally and active agent of the U.S government, or that those who invented and used the fabricated weapons of mass destruction lie as an excuse to kill people in iraq and used the staged false flag events of september 11 2001 to stage a totally false "war on terror" are not punishable in absence of sincere repentance?
And do you believe the murder of the 16 year old abdur Rahman al awlaki, and subsequent vover up and mass media lie that he was a 21 year old planning unlawful acts - was a moral act?
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you believe that Muslims who want to kill citizens of a certain country by leaving it and planning attacks against it to be just? Should other countries with majority Muslim populations allow there own citizens to do the same thing?
My beliefs should be measured under the high plumbline of what is right in Allah's sight, therefore the question would go back to probe your thinking as to whether your thinking falls in line with the law and will of Allah.
Do you believe the Prophet pbuh was right to leave Mecca after suffering injustice and persecution, and do you believe that he had a right to attack the Quraish from medina,
Do you believe he (pbuh) would have attacked them while under a peace treaty and did he attack them when the truce of Hudaybiyyah was made? And what was his (pbuh) response when the kuffar of Quraish themselves broke the truce?
[/QUOTE]
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Why do you love the al qeada Imam Anwar al waki so much? and no other person on the planet.
A childish and totally stupid question by an adult and lacking any positive substance, sincerity or truth requires no homour or response.
One would maybe understand the folly and coloring of the question if i responded with something like: why do you love the radical malcolm x and no other person on the planet?
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you believe suicide attacks in Lebanon, Yemen and most of the Muslim world are justified?
Again, what i believe and what you believe must come under the tall plumbline of Allah in order to be correct and accurate, it is not a matter of hawa and media heart-string pulling manipulation.
There is a huge difference between suicide and martyrdom, there are times when a person needs to avoid being tortured or having details of his/her group being extracted in an unlawful manner,
You would need to look at the treatises of qaradawi and ibn taymiyyah and also reflect upon the story of the boy and the king, it would be more beneficial than baiting people and causing fitnah.
It is not for a Muslim to believe in suicide or atonemenent for the sins of others by death.
Each individual is in pledge for his/her deeds and it is best therefore to Repent.
I believe both martin luther and malcolm x had some valid viewpoints in the debate below, however, none of them appeared to be the type that enjoys or condones being oppressed, I don't subscribe to racism and i applaud brother Malcolm for having corrected his stance after pilgrimage despite the amount of opposition and pushing into false paradigms that was shrewdly being practised.
Even if one believe, that all victims were deserving death, still, whoever was planning these actions and proudly broadcasting, should knew the consequences it will create, turn world against Islam, which is totally against Jihad in the meaning of conquering the hearts.
If crime was committed, search among those, who is benefitting by this crime.
Even if one believe, that all victims were deserving death, still, whoever was planning these actions and proudly broadcasting, should knew the consequences it will create, turn world against Islam, which is totally against Jihad in the meaning of conquering the hearts.
If crime was committed, search among those, who is benefitting by this crime.
The complicated nature of life on earth makes the solid fact that The Creator of the heavens and the earth is free from imperfection and is all knowing and wise whereas man is always limited in his ability to comprehend every single intricate detail - totally evident.
Sometimes motive is a strong clue, but not necessarily a determining factor, since it has unjustly happened many times that one ensares another by secretly commiting an act that will shift suspicion on the one with a strong and undeniable motive, Allah will surely requite each person according to circumstance, act and intention.
Sometimes we'll find layers upon layers of conspiracy and will inevitably get billowed like waves and stormy winds, but the on who uses their faculties to judge by what Allah has revealed will usually be able to stand firmly upon solid ground.
I recall a builder once putting up the wall a little tilted, and he had ignored my advice to him to use the plumbline on every line of bricks and to strerach a thread from end to end, (he apparently didn't undeestand the fact that the higher the plumbline, the less possibility of going bent), when i told him it was bent he told me it wasn't, so i told him to show me the plumbline from the top.
He chose a slightly inward brick and also stuck his thumb out underneath the stick to push the thread forward, then apologised when i told him to move his thumb. He left when he noticed my lack of friendliness after that.
That's the situatuon of all the political systems which foolishly and arrogantly refuse to judge by the will of their Creator.
They make a stupid rule, then make another stupid rule, then they separately compartmentalize both stupid rules in order to make them appear less stupid.
Then they'll take a correct law, use it out of correct context like chalk and cheese, then pretend they're emulating the correct rule.
Sometimes an action is a crime by one person and a virtue by another.
One has to be sincere to Allah if they want to get a correct measurement.
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for you killing any civilian is Qisas!
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