French minister: Muslim women who wear veils like ‘negroes’ supporting slavery

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

Or you can wait until a Muslim army conquer France

I prefer that Islam will spread to France by peacefull ways, not because of some conquest army.

Just my opinion.

^^ Well, I have to agree with that weather part. You don´t see many nudist here on the streets (neither on the beach) at the middle of winter when temperature is under -15 C and freezing wind comes from the Artic Ocean. Woolen hijab is much better choice then.

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

Humans began wearing clothing due to the weather, as it allowed humans to move into colder and more harsh climates. Clothing is also useful for sanitation. It had nothing to do with shame, etc. And there is nothing to be ashamed of being naked. That is a taboo that we invented in human societies that is best done away with.

Also, humans are not the only species to wear clothes. Hermit crabs don't have shells of their own, so they use the empty shells of molluscs. Cadis fly larva cases itself in coats of small stones.

Pygo, long time no speak, always amusing to hear your arguments on the nudity side and always love to facwpalm

Pygo, if you believe the evolutionary explanation for the way things were made to develop, you should be the last to make such a claim, if indeed species were made to develop from gasseous water (which the Quran confirms) which later developed into mud etc, then human predecessors would have discarded natural fur via a process of artificial skin wearing such as animal hide, and they would likely have worn it in the heat too for the natural hair to feel a need to make itself scarce, just as they would have opted to discard claws for more hand movement and agility, and opted for the more long term intelligent option which is highly developed brains, and the ability to invent accessories rather than be burdened with a narrow choice of fixed tools.
Clothes/skin in such a situation would most likely have been adopted initially for cold or armour, but it appears were maintained consistently for a long enough period for the body to discard fur, indicating that clothes were accepted as the way forward.
Clothes also would have served as security and prevention of harassment of females indicating a trend to avoid unnecessary conflict between males and social disorder which comes from lacking sexual control and dispersing seed randomly.
Just wanted to explain it the best way i think you'd understand it.

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb

I prefer that Islam will spread to France by peacefull ways, not because of some conquest army.

Just my opinion.

It is not to force people to Islam, it is to bring the justice of Islam onto people where there is an oppression, especially on Muslims...

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity

What about a march? IDk.´:/

A modernized version of the attack march...just turn up the volume...

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

I have been in that situation, and no I did not mind. If he was leering at her and making her uncomfortable, then I would mind, just as I would if she was wearing clothes and he was leering at her and making her uncomfortable.

Also, I get the sense that you may be shocked just how non-sexual nudity on nude beaches and nudist resorts can be. Once you adapt to it, you tend to forget you are naked and it isn't a big deal. Nudity is only hyper-sexualized in "normal" society because we build such a big taboo around it.



You think you own your wife as private property? You think that you own another human being? Perhaps you didn't mean to phrase it that way, but I find that very disturbing.

we don't own our women per say. Allah owns them, and Allah put us in charge, as such, it is a trust from Allah. We just have some rights over her, and she has some rights over us, etc.

As a Muslim woman, the requirement to remain veiled at all times outside the home is testimony to the respect and honour Islam gives to us. No, we are not owned by our male relatives, but it is their duty to protect and care for their women and I wouldn't have it any other way. This goes back to the original message of this thread - others may think what they like about the veil, but ask the ones who observe it and we'll tell them that it is the most liberating feeling you can have in the world. I feel like a princess Alhamdulillah.

format_quote Originally Posted by farhan Fan 2

A non violent or violent one? I guess a non violent one.OH.. What about marching to their headquarters, and demanding our rights?

Salam bro. I didnt understand you. But I think that is enough for this thread. We may create its own thread

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis

I have been in that situation, and no I did not mind. If he was leering at her and making her uncomfortable, then I would mind, just as I would if she was wearing clothes and he was leering at her and making her uncomfortable.

Also, I get the sense that you may be shocked just how non-sexual nudity on nude beaches and nudist resorts can be. Once you adapt to it, you tend to forget you are naked and it isn't a big deal. Nudity is only hyper-sexualized in "normal" society because we build such a big taboo around it.



You think you own your wife as private property? You think that you own another human being? Perhaps you didn't mean to phrase it that way, but I find that very disturbing.

There is something called the male glance. It tends to be internalized, which means that it is unconsciously allowed. There have been studies that explore the effects of an internalized male glance. Also studies that explore the silencing of women by males and females with the unconscious male glance.

Since you like science (http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketsci...e-male-glance/)

I'll come back with other cool studies about consequences of the male glance on women later today. The one above is an easy read. But there are more interesting studies that discuss experiments testing the movement of the eyes on both males and females to objectify women without there being a conscious realization

We know exaclty of politics of France since the beginning of the Crusades, it will never change lol

Aren't we going a little off topic?

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

Aren't we going a little off topic?

I don't think so >_>;

The french minister's problem with the Niqab is a value's problem, so we are discussing values

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ON that note,

There is an interesting book by Anne McClintock (Imperial Leather: Race, Gender, and Sexuality in the Colonial Contest ). It talks about the different attitudes colonizers took when they set out to 'colonize'. When they went to places where women were uncovered, such as in tribal areas and the such, their description of these women were that they were uncivilized because they did not cover themselves. When the same colonizers went to places where women were covered, their remarks were that these people were uncivilized because their women were covered and thus were oppressed.

Lesson: no matter what you do, you will always be wrong in human's eyes.