Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

**سيف الله** · 02-08-2017

Salaam

With Trump in power, Netanyahu has a free hand.

Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'

Land grab law 'allows theft, stalls peace process'

Law that retroactively legalises settler homes on private Palestinian land widely condemned as legitimising theft.

Israel's land grab law that retroactively legalises thousands of settlement homes in the occupied West Bank legitimises theft, violates international law and ends the prospect of a two-state solution, according to politicians, legal experts and human rights groups.

The so-called "Regulation Bill" instantly drew wide condemnation as it was voted in by members of the Knesset late on Monday with a 60 to 52 majority.

The law applies to about 4,000 settlement homes in the West Bank for which settlers could prove ignorance that they had built on privately owned Palestinian land and had received encouragement from the Israeli state to do so.

Three Israeli NGOs - Peace Now, Yesh Din and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel - and numerous Palestinians said they intend to petition the Supreme Court to cancel the law.

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said on Tuesday in a statement: "This bill is in contravention of international law and will have far reaching legal consequences for Israel."

The EU's foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said in a statement that the bloc "condemns" the law and urges against its implementation "to avoid measures that further raise tensions and endanger the prospects for a peaceful solution to the conflict".

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said the law was an aggression against the Palestinian people.

"That bill is contrary to international law," Abbas said following a meeting with French President Francois Hollande in Paris. "This is an aggression against our people that we will be opposing in international organisations.

"What we want is peace ... but what Israel does is to work toward one state based on apartheid."

Hollande called on Israel to go back on the law, saying it would "pave the way for an annexation, de-facto, of the occupied territories, which would be contrary to the two-state solution".

Hours before Abbas' meeting with Hollande, Saeb Erekat, secretary general of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, told the Associated Press news agency that the law puts "the last nail in the coffin of the two-state solution".

Calling the move "theft", Erekat said the ruling showed "the Israeli government trying to legalise looting Palestinian land".

The Arab League also accused Israel of "stealing the land" from Palestinians.

"The law in question is only a cover for stealing the land and appropriating the property of Palestinians," said the head of the Cairo-based organisation, Ahmed Aboul Gheit.

Palestinian owners will be compensated financially or with other land, but cannot negotiate their terms.

The law is a continuation of "Israeli policies aimed at eliminating any possibility of a two-state solution and the establishment of an independent Palestinian state", Aboul Gheit said.

Jordan, one of the few Arab states to have diplomatic ties with Israel, also denounced what it called "a provocative law likely to kill any hope of a two-state solution".

According to the UN envoy for the Middle East peace process, Nickolay Mladenov, the law crosses a "very thick red line" towards annexation of the occupied West Bank, and sets a "very dangerous precedent".

Speaking to the AFP news agency, he said: "This is the first time the Israeli Knesset legislates in the occupied Palestinian lands and particularly on property issues."

He also raised the possibility the law could open Israel up to potential prosecution at the International Criminal Court, a threat Israel's own top government lawyer, attorney general Avichai Mandelblit, has also warned of.

Mladenov called for strong international condemnation of the legislation but declined to criticise the US after President Donald Trump's administration refused to comment on it.

Trump is more sympathetic to Israel's settlement policies than previous US presidents; the Israeli government has approved plans to build thousands of new homes on occupied territory since the far-right leader settled into the White House.

"I think that is a very preliminary statement," Mladenov said. "Obviously they do need to consult, this is a new administration that has just come into office and they should be given the time and the space to find their policies."

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the US was likely to discuss the law with Netanyahu when the Israeli prime minister visits on February 15, but did not comment further in a press briefing on Tuesday.

David Harris, head of AJC, the global Jewish advocacy organisation, said that "Israel's High Court can and should reverse this misguided legislation" ahead of Netanyahu's meeting with Trump in February.

That was also the message from Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who said last week: "The chance that it will be struck down by the Supreme Court is 100 percent."

'Against all international laws'

International law considers all settlements to be illegal, but Israel distinguishes between those it sanctions and those it does not, dubbed outposts.

A Palestinian Cabinet minister also called on the international community for support.

"Nobody can legalise the theft of the Palestinian lands. Building settlements is a crime, building settlements is against all international laws," said Palestinian Tourism and Antiquities Minister Rula Maayaa. "I think it is time now for the international community to act concretely to stop the Israelis from these crimes."

Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, called the law "unacceptable" and urged the international community to act immediately.

"This is an escalation that would only lead to more instability and chaos," Rdeneh said.

Palestinians want the occupied West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip - territories Israel occupied in the 1967 Middle East war - for their future state.

The international community views settlements as illegal and an obstacle to reaching peace.

Shortly before leaving office, US President Barack Obama allowed the UN Security Council to pass a resolution declaring settlements illegal.

Tobias Ellwood, Britain's Middle East minister, also condemned the land grab bill, saying it "is of great concern that the bill paves the way for significant growth in settlements deep in the West Bank".

Yuval Shany, an international law professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, said the law violates basic rights, interferes with property rights and is discriminatory because it regulates only the transfer of land from Palestinians to Jews.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/israel-land-grab-law-ends-hope-state-solution-170207143602924.html

**Abz2000** · 08-01-2017

Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz

reply to etn:
lol bro you cannot go back thousands of years and claim rights to a land because that land belonged to jews back then!

; lets give back england to the viking then!

, lets give back the entire wrold to people who lived there ten thousand years ago!

What an idea! If anyone's got mixed ancestry from a few different countries, they is gonna be rich.
If they can trace their roots back to Adam or Noah, they can even claim planet earth.
I mean why have thousand year chains of land purchases and deeds and testimonies when you just need to search through rubble and find something that never belonged to you or to your family or someone you lawfully purchased the land from? If it's not a fallacy, somebody please tell me the legal requirements for rubble. I'll go look for some old stuff in my dad's attic and throw it in the river thames, then I can send everyone a water bill.

I can see that you're responding to a fallacious argument - and would also point out that many illegal settlers don't even have jewish ancestry to back up their fallacious arguments.
Another extension to the fallacious argument is that the only way a person can get citizenship in the fake state of israhell is by agreeing to become a war criminal and agreeing that stolen land is legitimate.
Even the term "recognizing israhell" is a loaded intellectually dishonest concept, since it is geared towards accepting the internationally criminal illegal map and thereby pretending that all the international resolutions against israhell are irrelevant.

I can see why they would focus so much on american and european public opinion though, since the relations include arms deals and other business transactions, along with the fact that the american government and the whole u.n setup loses credibility at home and abroad when it has to veto unanimous international resolutions, and european leaders lose credibility when they refuse to condemn criminal actions by israhell once an act is tabled. I used to wonder why on earth lobbied leaders paid israhell to promote false propaganda warfare against their own citizenry.......the most simple answer is that manipulation of public opinion takes the pressure off corrupt leaders and keeps the false game of pretense diplomacy going.

dem·a·gogue (de-magog, as in leader of zombie hordes)
a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.
synonyms: rabble-rouser, agitator, political agitator, soapbox orator, firebrand, fomenter, provocateur

soph·ist
ˈsäfəst/
noun
a paid teacher of philosophy and rhetoric in ancient Greece, associated in popular thought with moral skepticism and specious reasoning.

a person who reasons with clever but fallacious arguments.

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Blind democracy can be quite a scary concept when one cares to critically look at what majority demagogues aim and how such demagogues contribute to dumb and dumber by using dumbed down arguments and thereby make their chosen electorate flock even more confused and even more easily able to accept fallacies without question, they basically aim their mind numbing weapons at the 100 mark and succeed in lowering the intelligence of those who don't bother to think and call out the fallacies, what will they do if they lower the average? Aim lower?

Screenshot_2017-07-27-11-38-21.png

No wonder there's so much focus and promotion of mind numbing pop music, titilation of the baser mammalian instincts, and drugs.

------

Special pleading
Special pleading is a form of fallacious argument that involves an attempt to cite something as an exception to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exception.[1][2]

The lack of criticism may be a simple oversight (e.g., a reference to common sense) or an application of a double standard.

**ethnhunt** · 08-02-2017

Originally Posted by Abz2000

If they can trace their roots back to Adam or Noah, they can even claim planet earth.

I mean why have thousand year chains of land purchases and deeds and testimonies when you just need to search through rubble and find something that never belonged to you or to your family or someone you lawfully purchased the land from? If it's not a fallacy, somebody please tell me the legal requirements for rubble. I'll go look for some old stuff in my dad's attic and throw it in the river thames, then I can send everyone a water bill.

I see…it seems to me that you are under the impression that Muslim Arabs are the ONLY rightful ethnic group in the area of modern Israel. Clearly if that were the case, then I understand your indignation. But this is not the case! Furthermore, we do not need to go anywhere in time in order to show what is legal or what is not.

Still, - let me show you the population data available from the best sources we have. I would go back 200 years only, but we can do more if you wish, however the pattern would remain the same all the way to 4^th century as estimated:

In 1800, there were 7,000 Jews and 200,000 Muslims, with about 20,000 Christians living in the area of what may call Palestine.

The 1922 census of Palestine was the first census carried out by the authorities of the British Mandate of Palestine, on 23 October 1922. The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 408 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.

In 1948, there were approximately 600,000 Jews and about 1.1 million Muslims.

The above clearly shows that the Jews have always lived in the area and were majority in Jerusalem until mid-1800s. When I say always, I imply from about 5000 years ago till present, derived from documents. Archaeological evidence is available to show Jewish presents to about 2700 years before modern times or about 700 years before Christ. All I am trying to show you is that both the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians can stand up and claim the land. Not just Muslims!

Please note that emigration of Muslims from Arabia into Palestine happened in about the same time as Jewish emigration happened starting in sufficient numbers in mid 1800s. More Muslim emigrated in then the Jews. After the British took over from the Turks, UK Government restricted Jewish emigration, but left Muslim Arab emigration unrestricted. This is the reason for the numbers in to be what they were in 1947.

You also spoke of legalities. Well, - in the context of modern history of 20^th century the only legality of note are the decisions of League of Nations and United Nations. There is nothing else! If you wish to consider the Ottoman Turkey as a country prior to 1918, then you must agree to the fate of Turkish Palestine after 1918. If you do not think of Ottoman Turkey as a country, then we have to say that Palestine was never a country, but an province administered by Turkish empire until the British came in. The British took it from the Turks in the same manner as the Turks came into possessing it back in 1600s. How far do you want to go is your business, but there is only one thing that matters today, - the UN decision of 1947 and, to a degree, the decisions by League of Nations prior to 1947.

What I just told is THE reason why Palestinian Authority will NEVER contest anything in the International Court of Justice against Israel on territorial issues, because PA will most likely lose on legalities alone. Besides the Court has no jurisdiction in the mater anyway, but theoretically, if it did, - the PA will most definitely lose and Israel will most definitely win. So, - PA goes to the court of ‘Public Opinion’ and wins there.

Most countries today consider Israeli possession of West Bank and Golan Heights illegal. This is so, mostly as a result of incessant PA lobbying after the events of 1967 war and naïve hope that Muslim Arabs of Palestine can live next to the Jews of Palestine in peace.

I hope you know that West Bank was supposed to be the State of Palestine after 1947, but it never happened due to Jordan’s desire to keep it as a part of Jordan. This is a good old reality of Arabs not caring for their brother Arabs!

PA will lose because Israeli claim to the land is formidable, - going back to the St. Remo Conference as recognized by League of Nations and grandfathered by UN, indicating that Israel may exist in the West Bank. Furthermore, since Palestine, as a state, never materialized (thanks to Jordanian efforts) and Jordan walking away from any further claim on West Bank after 1967, Israel is now in the position to dispute the 1947 decision of UN on the grounds that its security, as a sovereign state, has greater priority and merit then a none-existing Palestinian entity.

The West Bank was never a part of any country, so Israeli possession of it is not an occupation or a land-grab.

Golan Heights is another matter. And here Syria might have an argument that may stand up on Court. But Syria is in shambles and any argument will be predicated on a peace initiative that Syria under Assad(s) never entertained, - so Israeli annexation of Golan, under the circumstances as a spoils of war, where Israel was an aggrieved party, may have merit and may legally stand. But it is not as clear as the West Bank status. On the West Bank Israel has a great case.

I hope the above was not too technical. The issue of West Bank can be resolved with the parties going to status qua ante of 1947 as a consequence of a negotiating process. However, the Palestinian Authority shows absolutely no appetite for any negotiations with Israel that may involve even minor compromise. PA’s position is paramount to a request of Israel committing a national suicide. Under those conditions PA will agree to negotiate. To wit, - PA says to Israel, - die and then we will be friends. I can post a latest PA’s demands and you will see the prove of the above. Israeli position is one of compromise where both parties may get most of what they want, but not everything. Look up the Israeli peace offers going back to 2000 if you need any further proof.

…so, - there you have it!

Originally Posted by Abz2000

I can see that you're responding to a fallacious argument - and would also point out that many illegal settlers don't even have jewish ancestry to back up their fallacious arguments.

Are you an expert of who is and who is not Jewish? Even the rabbinate in Jerusalem with its 900 rabbis is still debating this. Legally speaking, any sovereign state has an absolute right to decide who gets to emigrate in and who doesn’t, with your opinion or mine notwithstanding.

Furthermore Israel is slowly migrating from being a Jewish State to simply being a State, meaning that you do not have to be a Jew to be an Israeli, but you do have to conform to Israeli values, which are greatly predicated on Jewish values. This is a model that any Western country has today. It has not happen in Israel yet, but it is a process.

The result of that process will exclude all those who acts against Israel.

The Law of Return was designed to give refuge to the Jews of the World in the only country where they can feel safe, which is understandable if you consider the past 2000 years of Jewish life culminating with the murder of 6 million by German Nazis.

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Another extension to the fallacious argument is that the only way a person can get citizenship in the fake state of israhell is by agreeing to become a war criminal and agreeing that stolen land is legitimate.

…what you are saying is argumentative and a hearsay. You can’t ever show that any land was stolen, because you can never show that the ownership of said land was ever valid. The validity of ownership in question ended with Ottoman Empire being dismembered and British Mandate ending.

Population that either run away in fear or warfare or was displaced does have a right to compensation on merit, but it may not have a right to reclaiming its real estate because of proclaimed hostility to Israel. You can’t have it both ways, - you can’t ask for your home back while advocating for the demise of an authority that now holds your home. You can however ask and should receive ample compensation for your loss. Such compensation has been offered time and again by Israel. Look up proposed initiatives back in 2000 in Camp David.

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Even the term "recognizing israhell" is a loaded intellectually dishonest concept, since it is geared towards accepting the internationally criminal illegal map and thereby pretending that all the international resolutions against israhell are irrelevant.

International resolution are relevant, but not legally binding, which why Israel mostly ignores them. However, all countries ignore them, not just Israel. The latest one is China, which was just sited with judgment for Philippines over the China Sea claims. What does China do? Ignores the judgment!

If resolution cannot be ignored, then the war will result and nobody wants that. The only binding resolution is the one that comes form Security Consul, because the threat of military actin becomes real.

Originally Posted by Abz2000

I can see why they would focus so much on american and european public opinion though, since the relations include arms deals and other business transactions, along with the fact that the american government and the whole u.n setup loses credibility at home and abroad when it has to veto unanimous international resolutions, and european leaders lose credibility when they refuse to condemn criminal actions by israhell once an act is tabled. I used to wonder why on earth lobbied leaders paid israhell to promote false propaganda warfare against their own citizenry.......the most simple answer is that manipulation of public opinion takes the pressure off corrupt leaders and keeps the false game of pretense diplomacy going.

Perhaps you should look at the very preoccupation that UN has with Israel. Out of the last 35 resolutions that UN did pass, 31 concerned Israel. So, the Arab majority in most relevant UN committees is very much engaged against Israel. This is not fair, since the world has by far more problems than Israel’s issues. So your point is wrong on facts alone.

Furthermore, lobbing is the way of world. All groups are free to lobby. The Israeli lobby is well organized and very efficient. Arabs have the same opportunity here. They can do better.

The reason it appears one sided to you, when you conspiratorially speak of agreements and business transactions, is because Israeli economy is absolutely integrated with the World’s economy. There is just so much of what the world needs that does come out and originate in Israel, - the science, the medicine, the computer microprocessors and associated electronics (including the one you use!), the software, the agriculture, etc. etc. all of that is worth it to the world at large.

What does come out of Arab world? Not very much! And oil is losing its value as we speak. I do not see a bright future for Arab world at this time. I hope it changes though.

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Blind democracy can be quite a scary concept when one cares to critically look at what majority demagogues aim and how such demagogues contribute to dumb and dumber by using dumbed down arguments and thereby make their chosen electorate flock even more confused and even more easily able to accept fallacies without question, they basically aim their mind numbing weapons at the 100 mark and succeed in lowering the intelligence of those who don't bother to think and call out the fallacies, what will they do if they lower the average? Aim lower?

I do not engage in demagoguery. I try to support what I say with available data. If you managed to have read my comments above, I hope you find them substantiated and logical and not too argumentative, although some of what I say can be contested, but most of what I say is just facts and logic. I also realize that you may not like what I say, but it does not make it any less pertinent.

Believe me, Israelis will give ‘their collective right arm’ for the possibility of a compromise with PA that will lead to an agreement. Israelis will give up land ad will pay sufficient compensation to all involved in exchange to the reality to live in peace and security. It is possible.

**Abz2000** · 08-02-2017

Same style man, be a bit more original, sounding like a sales department customer agent or holiday agent fetching a brochure one minute, and a lawyer the next isn't very convincing when it comes to attempting to convince others that you're not a member of staff now is it? Relax a bit dude, sounding too at the office-like gives the game away.

It's not about turning it into a competition process between me an you, and about who out of the two of us is "winning" with lots of text - since Allah

wins, so lets try and get on His side then we'll be part of the winning team even after the generation is reaped.

Now take a deep breath, relax, and post something with real substance. I'm using a phone, so if you decide to flood the issue with text, and halfway down the post, try to imply that it's not rellly about legality, people will wonder what you're up to (shhhh I'm trying to help you out dude) do you want everyone to find out?

Better still, come clean about it all and we'll talk on a level, I have no problem discussing issues with a person who honestly states that he's a representative working from an office, otherwise it feels like one of those stall the scammer fake microsoft or IRS agent and have fun pranks.

---

Firstly, take a critical look at the patronizing response style which I quote later:

first thing, you grab a high chair,
next, imply to everyone a strawman assertion which you then go on to deconstruct yourself and somehow attempt to conjure the illusion that the person being responded to is clueless,
whilst in the meantime, mention other people in "modern israhell" as if it's the name of the place - when it's actually an illegal entity that needs to be removed.
Then go on to fill the post with data about yahoods in contrast to arabs - before subtly admitting that israhell illegal even by the standards of the consortium that was put together to install it - but also claiming that legality isn't an issue.
Strength appears to be the only issue that logically remains in the equation although it's not mentioned - and a low grade P.R spin is all that the post appears to attempt. Know that strength belongs to Allah, and that the heirs will be those who are most true and just.

The next fallacy: the COURTIER'S REPLY is utilised by questioning the person's expertise and then the assertion that there is no such entity as yahood. (It raises the question: why go to so much lengths to provoke turmoil in the region by installing an entity that doesn't exist by any truthful or tangible measure - on stolen land? ....Goes back to my statement two pages ago about it being better to give them half of england or a state in america.

Originally Posted by ethnhunt

I see…it seems to me that you are under the impression that Muslim Arabs are the ONLY rightful ethnic group in the area of modern Israel.
Clearly if that were the case, then I understand your indignation.
But this is not the case!
Furthermore, we do not need to go anywhere in time in order to show what is legal or what is not.

Still, - let me show you the population data available from the best sources we have. I would go back 200 years only, but we can do more if you wish, however the pattern would remain the same all the way to 4th century as estimated:

In 1800, there were 7,000 Jews and 200,000 Muslims, with about 20,000 Christians living in the area of what may call Palestine.

........Are you an expert of who is and who is not Jewish? Even the rabbinate in Jerusalem with its 900 rabbis is still debating this. Legally speaking, any sovereign state has an absolute right to decide who gets to emigrate in and who doesn’t, with your opinion or mine notwithstanding.

Furthermore Israel is slowly migrating from being a Jewish State to simply being a State, meaning that you do not have to be a Jew to be an Israeli...

It is very rude and arrogant to claim that they're willing to "give up" stolen land back to the owners in exchange for a compromise - that's blackmail, and I accuse you of blackmail since you make the claim as if you are an ambassador representative - when in reality, you are posing as a semi-casual commenter whose employers have set it up so they can deny responsibility for your statements.

Originally Posted by ethnhunt

Believe me, Israelis will give ‘their collective right arm’ for the possibility of a compromise with PA that will lead to an agreement. Israelis will give up land ad will pay sufficient compensation to all involved in exchange to the reality to live in peace and security. It is possible.

After detailing the opening fallacies, I'm not even gonna bother popping the remaining empty balloons though I could if I wanted to waste time.

The only thing I'll ask is:
What did you hope to achieve by the extended post?
Everyone has a reason for posting.
What was the intended benefit?

**سيف الله** · 08-02-2017

Salaam

Careful brothers and sisters. We have to remember that there are many religious Jews are opposed to the creation of Israel and how their faith has been hijacked by the Zionists.

**ethnhunt** · 08-02-2017

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Same style man, be a bit more original, sounding like a sales department customer agent or holiday agent fetching a brochure one minute, and a lawyer the next isn't very convincing when it comes to attempting to convince others that you're not a member of staff now is it? Relax a bit dude, sounding too at the office-like gives the game away.

WOW!!! I really have no clue what you trying to say!!! I bet nobody would have a clue what you trying to say!!! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY!!!

Just to remind you, we are talking about Arab-Israeli crisis. Focus! I really don’t care how I ‘sound’ to you. I do care for the issues that are being discussed. You clearly is more attuned to how thing ‘sound’, not what they mean!!!

I am not a lawyer. My background is physics. I do not work in the office. I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am trying to show you that there is another narrative that has more merit then your blubbering’s. You are free to believe in whatever you want or be deluded as it is clearly evident from your post. I really don’t care.

Tell me, - can you think? So far there is no evidence of that. Prove me wrong! I dare you.

Originally Posted by Abz2000

It's not about turning it into a competition process between me an you, and about who out of the two of us is "winning" with lots of text - since Allah wins, so lets try and get on His side then we'll be part of the winning team even after the generation is reaped.

I AM a part of a winning team, because I preach democracy and freedom. Are you? I agree that this is not a competition, whatever gave you that demented idea? It ONLY looks like a completion to you, because you can’t argue in a logical and consistent manner. So, you are reverting to the childish lowest denominator, - a competitive stands! Get out of a sand box, play with the big boys! Otherwise your mental impotence is all too revealing.

You know, - Bob Dillon once said to John Lennon, and I quote, - “ …what are you saying, man?...” I ask you the same question, - WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY, MAN?

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Now take a deep breath, relax, and post something with real substance. I'm using a phone, so if you decide to flood the issue with text, and halfway down the post, try to imply that it's not rellly about legality, people will wonder what you're up to (shhhh I'm trying to help you out dude) do you want everyone to find out?

LOL, - its all conspiracies to you, right? You can’t fathom a though that most people can actually think for themselves. I don’t use a phone, I use speech-to-text tech. It is quick and it works and it is Israeli! If my posts are long, it is because the topic needs space.

I am surprised that you saw no substance in my posts. I gave you dates, figures, legal standing and logic. What have you given back? All I see is verbal junk coming out of you. You need to do better. Can you? You can pick ANY paragraph that I wrote in any of my posts and see data or reasoning. It impossible to say the same about your posts!

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Better still, come clean about it all and we'll talk on a level, I have no problem discussing issues with a person who honestly states that he's a representative working from an office, otherwise it feels like one of those stall the scammer fake microsoft or IRS agent and have fun pranks.

I only represent myself. I do not work in the office. I don’t have to. I have no idea what it ‘feels’ to you like, but I assure you that you are wrong. Can we dispense with that?

Originally Posted by Abz2000

…in the meantime, mention other people in "modern israhell" as if it's the name of the place - when it's actually an illegal entity that needs to be removed.
Then go on to fill the post with data about yahoods in contrast to arabs - before subtly admitting that israhell illegal even by the standards of the consortium that was put together to install it - but also claiming that legality isn't an issue.

You like illusions don’t you. “Israhell” exists! You deny it, but it does. LOL! Here is a mental exercise for you, - a small one to start with just see how you do, - can you show why “Israhell” is “an illegal entity that needs to be removed”.

Here is a bombshell for you, - it is not enough to say what you like! You also must SHOW why you say it! Support your views! This is called ‘thinking’. Perhaps it is a novel concept for you, but I am sure you are a high school graduate, so they must have taught you something. Let’s see what you can do, - show you mental strength!

Here is another thing, I KNOW that there IS a way to show that Israel is actually an illegal entity according to the process that took place at UN, by UNSCOP back in 1947. That reasoning is flawed because Israel WAS eventually recognized by the majority of the nations and thereby fulfilled the requirements of the State status. But still, you can try to show the supposed illegality. I bet you can’t, because you do not know enough history. Education is your friend!

All you do, is simply say that “Israhell” is “an illegal entity, but you do not know WHY it may be?

Originally Posted by Abz2000

The next fallacy: the COURTIER'S REPLY is utilised by questioning the person's expertise and then the assertion that there is no such entity as yahood. (It raises the question: why go to so much lengths to provoke turmoil in the region by installing an entity that doesn't exist by any truthful or tangible measure - on stolen land? ....Goes back to my statement two pages ago about it being better to give them half of england or a state in america.

… no such entity as yahood? Are you saying that there are no Jews? What are you saying? I guess ONLY you know that, which is becoming a norm for your posts.

I already addressed the “…stolen land…” issue and showed that the land was never stolen. Tell me WHY do you insist that the Jews stole the land? Where is your reasoning? Where is your logic? You just like to say things without thinking, right?

Israel was ‘installed’ by the decision of the World on the land that had no legal ownership in the eyes of the World. Palestine was the ward of the World when the UK surrendered its mandate over it. Do you get it? Need proof? It is easy.

Israelis remained in the land after 1948. That was the Land that UN allocated to Israel. What happened to the Land that UN allocated to the Arabs? It became part of Jordan.

The 1948 Arab war against Israel was not successful. This is the end of that story. Therefore Israel fulfilled the requirement for being a state, - it was recognized by the World (UN) and it managed to defend itself. The land issue after 1948 became the purview of Israel. Those Arab that were not displaced retained their possessions. Those Arabs that were displaced did not. Is it legal? I have no idea, as international statures do not address those issues. It is perfectly legal from Israeli point of view. The Arabs do have a remedy, - they can negotiate or fight. Former is preferable, while latter is hopeless.

After 1967 war, the land of West Bank became the purview of Israel too. What would you do if you were there after the events of 1967? Would you pull the troops back from West Bank and faced more terrorism and war or you would say to the Arabs, - ‘I’ll give the land back only if you promise not to attack again, sigh the peace treaty and be a good neighbor’. This is EXACTLY what Israel did and say in after 1967 and got the three famous NO’s in response from Mr. Nasser. Israel got terrorism from Mr. Arafat. What were and still are the goals of the Arabs? I shall tell you, - their goals, by their own admission, is a replacement if Israel with another Arab state! This is the reason no negotiations ever took place! Think, man…think! Don’t be a cowboy, do not just shoot from the hip, - think!

Originally Posted by Abz2000

It is very rude and arrogant to claim that they're willing to "give up" stolen land back to the owners in exchange for a compromise - that's blackmail, and I accuse you of blackmail since you make the claim as if you are an ambassador representative - when in reality, you are posing as a semi-casual commenter whose employers have set it up so they can deny responsibility for your statements.

I have no “employers”. I work for nobody. Please stop that nonsense. The compromise I spoke about is the way to negotiate the conflict out. Both sides lose something. But both sides stand a lot to gain. This is the compromise! Israel proper, as per UN’s decision of 1947, is the land that cannot be disputed by any logic. The land Israel gained in wars that were started by Arabs is THE LAND that can be disputed. The compromise is referred to that Land. There is no blackmail here, just pragmatism.

Originally Posted by Abz2000

The only thing I'll ask is:
What did you hope to achieve by the extended post?
Everyone has a reason for posting.
What was the intended benefit?

I post because I can. I do everything because I can. I am very fortunate that way. Ok?

**ethnhunt** · 08-02-2017

Originally Posted by Junon

Salaam

Careful brothers and sisters. We have to remember that there are many religious Jews are opposed to the creation of Israel and how their faith has been hijacked by the Zionists.

There are 18 million Jews in the world.

The videos you posted show the members of Neturey Karta. They are anti-zionist. They number less then five hundred, which represents a tiny persantage of the total Jewish population.

There are other sects within Jewdaizm who are also anti-zionist. Together they might number about 6-7 thousands.

The rest of the Jews are supporting Israel.

You have no case. Your point is...well... pointless, because Neturey Karta does not speak for the Jews of the world.

You might look at the website of the World Jewish Congress to get an idea of how much support and by how many People does Israel enjoy. We are talking many millions here.

**Abz2000** · 08-03-2017

The following is more concise and stable than my speech, ponder over it.

٣٣ أَفَمَنْ هُوَ قَآئِمٌ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ نَفْسٍۭ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ ۗ وَجَعَلُوا۟ لِلَّهِ شُرَكَآءَ قُلْ سَمُّوهُمْ ۚ أَمْ تُنَبِّـُٔونَهُۥ بِمَا لَا يَعْلَمُ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ أَم بِظَٰهِرٍ مِّنَ ٱلْقَوْلِ ۗ بَلْ زُيِّنَ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ مَكْرُهُمْ وَصُدُّوا۟ عَنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ ۗ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ ٱللَّهُ فَمَا لَهُۥ مِنْ هَادٍ33

٣٤ لَّهُمْ عَذَابٌ فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَعَذَابُ ٱلْءَاخِرَةِ أَشَقُّ ۖ وَمَا لَهُم مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ مِن وَاقٍ34

33. Is then He who stands over every soul with what it does (like others)?
And yet they ascribe partners to Allah.
Say: "But name them! is it that you will inform Him of something he knows not on earth?
Or is it a vast display of speech?"
Actually, to those who deny, their plotting seems pleasing, but they are kept back (thereby) from the path. And those whom Allah leaves to stray, there is for him no guide.
34. For them is a torment in the life of this world, but the torment of the Hereafter is more difficult, and not for them, against Allah, are there any defenders.

From Quran, Chapter 13.

Originally Posted by ethnhunt

WOW!!! I really have no clue what you trying to say!!! I bet nobody would have a clue what you trying to say!!! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY!!!

Just to remind you, we are talking about Arab-Israeli crisis. Focus! I really don’t care how I ‘sound’ to you. I do care for the issues that are being discussed. You clearly is more attuned to how thing ‘sound’, not what they mean!!!

I am not a lawyer. My background is physics. I do not work in the office. I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am trying to show you that there is another narrative that has more merit then your blubbering’s. You are free to believe in whatever you want or be deluded as it is clearly evident from your post. I really don’t care.

Tell me, - can you think? So far there is no evidence of that. Prove me wrong! I dare you.

I AM a part of a winning team, because I preach democracy and freedom. Are you? I agree that this is not a competition, whatever gave you that demented idea? It ONLY looks like a completion to you, because you can’t argue in a logical and consistent manner. So, you are reverting to the childish lowest denominator, - a competitive stands! Get out of a sand box, play with the big boys! Otherwise your mental impotence is all too revealing.

You know, - Bob Dillon once said to John Lennon, and I quote, - “ …what are you saying, man?...” I ask you the same question, - WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY, MAN?

LOL, - its all conspiracies to you, right? You can’t fathom a though that most people can actually think for themselves. I don’t use a phone, I use speech-to-text tech. It is quick and it works and it is Israeli! If my posts are long, it is because the topic needs space.

I am surprised that you saw no substance in my posts. I gave you dates, figures, legal standing and logic. What have you given back? All I see is verbal junk coming out of you. You need to do better. Can you? You can pick ANY paragraph that I wrote in any of my posts and see data or reasoning. It impossible to say the same about your posts!

I only represent myself. I do not work in the office. I don’t have to. I have no idea what it ‘feels’ to you like, but I assure you that you are wrong. Can we dispense with that?

You like illusions don’t you. “Israhell” exists! You deny it, but it does. LOL! Here is a mental exercise for you, - a small one to start with just see how you do, - can you show why “Israhell” is “an illegal entity that needs to be removed”.

Here is a bombshell for you, - it is not enough to say what you like! You also must SHOW why you say it! Support your views! This is called ‘thinking’. Perhaps it is a novel concept for you, but I am sure you are a high school graduate, so they must have taught you something. Let’s see what you can do, - show you mental strength!

Here is another thing, I KNOW that there IS a way to show that Israel is actually an illegal entity according to the process that took place at UN, by UNSCOP back in 1947. That reasoning is flawed because Israel WAS eventually recognized by the majority of the nations and thereby fulfilled the requirements of the State status. But still, you can try to show the supposed illegality. I bet you can’t, because you do not know enough history. Education is your friend!

All you do, is simply say that “Israhell” is “an illegal entity, but you do not know WHY it may be?

… no such entity as yahood? Are you saying that there are no Jews? What are you saying? I guess ONLY you know that, which is becoming a norm for your posts.

I already addressed the “…stolen land…” issue and showed that the land was never stolen. Tell me WHY do you insist that the Jews stole the land? Where is your reasoning? Where is your logic? You just like to say things without thinking, right?

Israel was ‘installed’ by the decision of the World on the land that had no legal ownership in the eyes of the World. Palestine was the ward of the World when the UK surrendered its mandate over it. Do you get it? Need proof? It is easy.

Israelis remained in the land after 1948. That was the Land that UN allocated to Israel. What happened to the Land that UN allocated to the Arabs? It became part of Jordan.

The 1948 Arab war against Israel was not successful. This is the end of that story. Therefore Israel fulfilled the requirement for being a state, - it was recognized by the World (UN) and it managed to defend itself. The land issue after 1948 became the purview of Israel. Those Arab that were not displaced retained their possessions. Those Arabs that were displaced did not. Is it legal? I have no idea, as international statures do not address those issues. It is perfectly legal from Israeli point of view. The Arabs do have a remedy, - they can negotiate or fight. Former is preferable, while latter is hopeless.

After 1967 war, the land of West Bank became the purview of Israel too. What would you do if you were there after the events of 1967? Would you pull the troops back from West Bank and faced more terrorism and war or you would say to the Arabs, - ‘I’ll give the land back only if you promise not to attack again, sigh the peace treaty and be a good neighbor’. This is EXACTLY what Israel did and say in after 1967 and got the three famous NO’s in response from Mr. Nasser. Israel got terrorism from Mr. Arafat. What were and still are the goals of the Arabs? I shall tell you, - their goals, by their own admission, is a replacement if Israel with another Arab state! This is the reason no negotiations ever took place! Think, man…think! Don’t be a cowboy, do not just shoot from the hip, - think!

I have no “employers”. I work for nobody. Please stop that nonsense. The compromise I spoke about is the way to negotiate the conflict out. Both sides lose something. But both sides stand a lot to gain. This is the compromise! Israel proper, as per UN’s decision of 1947, is the land that cannot be disputed by any logic. The land Israel gained in wars that were started by Arabs is THE LAND that can be disputed. The compromise is referred to that Land. There is no blackmail here, just pragmatism.

I post because I can. I do everything because I can. I am very fortunate that way. Ok?

If I was talking on an intellectually honest level with someone, we could have gotten somewhere, but I'm honestly telling you the truth when I say that when I read your argumentative and nothing else posts, and argue with you in return - I feel like I've descended into a spiritual cesspit, like my soul has been corrupted and darkened. I will leave Allah to deal with you since He knows the inner intentions better than anyone else and you can see if you can take Him around in circles if you would.
I have rejected the enemies of Islam, hatred and enmity has manifested between us and will not dissipate in absence of repentance to Allah, and I seek refuge with Allah from being made a trial for the kuffar.

If someone else doesn't mind the idea of you perverting their statements and then lacing them with loads of falsehoods so they can spend hours on end refuting them but getting nowhere with you - and losing their spiritual calm in the meantime, that's their choice, please don't get one of your colleagues to start a fake debate with you though.

I am not going to remain neutral or pretend that I reject you If I believe you are true, and I am not going to remain neutral and pretend that I sort of trust you if I believe you're a fraud.
If you're a fraud, I have no logical reason to waste my time or yours.
I think you're a fraud and I will let Allah

deal with you. If He doesn't exist, you have no reason to worry about what He'll do. If He does, don't be stupid by trying to play games.
And I'm telling you that Allah exists - even though you already know.

Surah 44. Smoke
1. Ha-Mim.
2. By the Book that makes things clear;-
3. We sent it down during a Blessed Night: for We (ever) wish to warn (against Evil).
4. In the (Night) is made distinct every affair of wisdom,
5. By command, from Our Presence. For We (ever) send (revelations),
6. As Mercy from thy Lord: for He hears and knows (all things);
7. The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all between them, if ye (but) have an assured faith.
8. There is no god but He: It is He Who gives life and gives death,- The Lord and Cherisher to you and your earliest ancestors.
9. Yet they play about in doubt.
10. Then watch for the Day that the sky will bring forth a kind of smoke (or mist) plainly visible,
11. Enveloping the people: this will be a Penalty Grievous.
12. (They will say: ) "Our Lord! remove the Penalty from us, for we do really believe!"
13. How shall the message be (effectual) for them, seeing that an Messenger explaining things clearly has (already) come to them,-
14. Yet they turn away from him and say: "Tutored (by others), a man possessed!"
15. We shall indeed remove the Penalty for a while, (but) truly ye will revert (to your ways).
16. One day We shall seize you with a mighty onslaught: We will indeed (then) exact Retribution!
17. We did, before them, try the people of Pharaoh: there came to them a messenger most honourable,
18. Saying: "Restore to me the Servants of Allah. I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust;
19. "And be not arrogant as against Allah. for I come to you with authority manifest.
20. "For me, I have sought safety with my Lord and your Lord, against your injuring me.
21. "If ye believe me not, at least keep yourselves away from me."
22. (But they were aggressive: ) then he cried to his Lord: "These are indeed a people given to crime."
23. (The reply came: ) "March forth with My Servants by night: for ye are sure to be pursued.
24. "And leave the sea as a furrow (divided): for they are a host (destined) to be drowned."

From Quran, Chapter 4

**Abz2000** · 08-03-2017

Btw, I was also intrigued when you spelled hazbara instead of hasbara and wanted to know more about possible causes for the anomaly - so I checked up and found that israelis often write "z" for words which are pronounced with "s". But the individual who wrote the hasbara protocols is apparently an american politician.

Originally Posted by ethnhunt

It may surprise you but I actually read your posts! All of them! I am still trying to figure out, - what exactly you are trying to say. It seems that it is your contention that what I SAY is dictated by some mythical book that some organization called Hasbara (not Hazbara, my mistake) put out as a guide for pro-Israel activities.

You know very well that it's not mythical, and that raises questions on the truthfulness of your claim to prior ignorance of the deceitful program, and claimed opinion that the protocols of "tzion" are a forgery (even though it is as brazen and shameless, and follows the same style and racist thinking as the hasbara handbook and the hasbara global language dictionary).

What are the giveaway traits of a Hebrew (Israeli) accent?
2 ANSWERS

Tzvi Perlow, I am an Israeli from birth, and so, Hebrew is my home language.
Updated May 21, 2014
As my title says: I am Israeli.

So, here are the traits that giveaway an Israeli.

They have a letter 'Tzadik' (צ)
My name is actually pronounced using the Tzadik.
My name is 'Tzvi', pronounced like Tsunami: 'Tsvi'
The sound is made with the teeth together and the tip of the tongue covering from behind.

Their 'R's (or 'Resh's) are pronounced like a French or German 'R'
When pronouncing an American 'R', your tongue shrivels up at the back of the mouth and your mouth gets smaller. By the French, German or Israeli, though, the tongue lies at the bottom of the mouth and the sound comes from the throat - hence the different sound.

Israelis pretty much screw up the letter 'T', as I said above and as Ido Rabin commented below:
All 'Th' combinations just become a 'D' or less commonly 'Z'
For example, these lines would be very tricky for them to say:
"Dey (- they) want da (- the) 'D'"
"Dis (- this) is a very tin (- thin) piece of pepper (- paper)"
"Der/Zer iz a big sret (- threat) to our country!)

I still have no idea how Israelis say Thor.....

NOTE: I would like to thank my mom, for speaking a flaw-full Israeli English, so that I can correctly write this post.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-g...Israeli-accent

How exacly are you supposed to pronounce the word ZION? | ...
https://answers.yahoo.com › question
Jan 27, 2010 - In English I know it's pronounced Zuh-yon (which sounds pretty weird) In Hebrew it's pronounced Tseeyon (Tziyon)

As for the pronunciations: Israelis don't pronounce Zion or Zionism the same as in English:

In Hebrew it's

Tsee-yon ציון - Zion ("TS", as mentioned, as in pizza)

Tsee-yo-noot ציונות - Zionism

As for intercourse and pen#ses,

Za-yeen is a pen#s, זין (and the seventh letter in the aleph-bet), a curse word.

Zee-yoon is a f#$k, זיון, also, not polite at all.

(Arabic uses "zina" for fornication - no wonder God describes Godless israel as an adulteress wife (zionist jews are usually secular I.e they reject the authority of God - yet use His name for security and P.R like a sl#g wife tries to use a husband for security and social status).

Zion, Tsiyon, Sion, Tziyon

So it would make sense for a middle eastern jew to write hazbara for a hebrew word when pronouncing hasbara.

It might be the israeli machine that you claim to dictate into.......

....although highly unlikely since they're usually built and programmed for international consumers (possibly also utilized for eavesdropping on international communications grabbed off the air)- and also the fact that speech to text usually has to be checked and edited by a human.

I'm not basing all of my conclusions on the spelling anomaly (although it was quite a unique difference when factoring in most other global pronounciations), but through interaction and methodology, content and pattern processed with logical reasoning.

**Grandad** · 08-03-2017

Originally Posted by Abz2000

Btw, I was also intrigued when you spelled hazbara instead of hasbara and wanted to know more about possible causes for the anomaly - so I checked up and found that israelis often write "z" for words which are pronounced with "s".

As in the following (see post 186):

'There are other sects within Jewdaizm who are also anti-zionist. Together they might number about 6-7 thousands.'

**anatolian** · 08-03-2017

Who is ruling the World? America. Who is ruling America? Jews.. So it is simply only possible to bring hope to Palestine by making Muslims great again!

**Abz2000** · 08-03-2017

Originally Posted by Grandad

As in the following (see post 186):

'There are other sects within Jewdaizm who are also anti-zionist. Together they might number about 6-7 thousands.'

Zis is inseresting
A bit like saying:
"I am ze neutsral american zoe, and I am ze aghnoztic, no-sing ghrong wiz hazbara, I'm ok wiz zat."

Also from the same post:

The videos you posted show the members of Neturey Karta. They are anti-zionist. They number less then five hundred, which represents a tiny persantage of the total Jewish population.

Why would any person without a crooked vested interest make such a false claim?
The following three paragraphs are from three different articles, copy paste search a part of any to read further:

In order to understand why Neturei Karta support the Palestinians struggle we need to examine their roots: historically, Neturei Karta had split from Agudas Yisrael, a much larger Ashkenazi Orthodox organization from the late 1930s, which was then a major opponent of Zionism that would ultimately reassess its opposition to the state of Israel. Neturei Karta however, remains a zealous opponent of the Zionist movement since it believes the exile of the Jews can only be redeemed with the arrival of the Messiah and that any attempt to establish a Jewish state is an affront to God’s will.

Therefore, it claims, the state of Israel and all its institutions should be resisted or at the very least ignored. Today there are only a few thousand Neturei Karta members around the world.

Hirsch believes that Neturei Karta’s activities are positive, and that they actually help to reduce anti-Semitic ideas among many Muslims. “We meet with Palestinians all the time,” he said. “Some of them were convinced that all the Jews want to kill them and expel them from their lands. Then they met Jews who stayed true to the Torah and did not pollute themselves with invalid nationalism. Anyone can be Neturei Karta. We are an ideological movement. We have no registration or acceptance committee. Anyone who identifies with us is Neturei Karta. We know that we have plenty of support, and it is growing all the time.”

According to the US branch Neturei Karta:

"The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta".

The genocidal impact of the Holocaust (the mass murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II) devastated the Ashkenazim and their culture, affecting almost every Jewish family.[28][29] It is estimated that in the 11th century Ashkenazi Jews composed only three percent of the world's total Jewish population, while at their peak in 1931 they accounted for 92 percent of the world's Jews.

Hmmm, i knew a little about the beginning of zionist activities before the 20th century and the difficulty they were facing in getting jews to move there, along with the zionist synagogue bombings in iraq and other other countries, I hadn't thought much about why national socialism which started trying to remove german citizenship was renamed "nazi" (which became the reviled "anti-jewish" vehicle that was busy making board games such as "juden raus" (google nazi board games) and aiming to move jews that would move to mandate palestine, I knew about the nazi adolf eichmann who even travelled to palestine on the same mission, I knew about the rothschild activities and huge funding and land buying.

But i don't recall it ever occuring to me that naming the racist national socialists "nazi" would help to easily vilify ashkenazis as "antisemitic" whilst most who opposed the zionist movement and refused to move and told others not to move were killed.
I did believe that the british government was attempting to build a proxy state there in order to more easily justify their illegal aggressions in the wider region to their christian citizens and prevent them from accepting islam after wondering who God's real chosen might be.
Putting up a fake Godless israel seems to be what their narrow minds came up with.
Maybe the internet age wasn't factored in.

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