Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?

**Mustafa16** · 03-03-2017

Horrendous and systematic persecution of bahais in Iran (and everywhere)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of Gulenists in Turkey (and not even because they are considered heretics, but that certainly helps)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of Ahmadis in Pakistan and Palestine.
Horrendous abuse of Christians
Horrendous abuse of Jews
genocide against yazidis
sunni-shia conflict
what the heck is wrong with the muslim world? we complain about the abuse of Muslims in Burma, Kashmir, Palestine, Syria (which by the way, is also a place where yezidis and Christians are being butchered) and east Turkestan, the CAR in Africa, etc.
to be a muslim is to stand up for human rights anywhere and everywhere......
why do we only complain about ourselves? we hardly complain for the rights of non muslims, unless we live in the lands of the kuffar and fear lynching or hate crimes, but in the dar al islam, we don't fear, we let loose.....human beings are worthy of being treated with dignity....how would you like it if that was your sister, your daughter, your mother, your son, your brother, your friend, your father, etc.?
we complain about how human rights groups make "misleading reports" about Islamic countries....how is it misleading when you are not allowed to criticize your ruler because he is king or president or prime minister, where heads of state are thieves who hoard billions in wealth on enormous palaces, where corruption is rampant, where journalists are jailed, where insulting a leader IS A CRIME! where torture is rampant, where you are guilty until proven innocent....has anyone ever read the life of our Prophet (PBUH) and his companions? a kharijite came and insulted Umar (RA) in the masjid! they told Umar (RA) to react, but he said, he has a right to say what he wants...! astaghfirullah I am ashamed to be associated with the likes of Palestine, turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc.

**Simple_Person** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif

Whatever problem you see in the Muslim world today is because of ignorance. People cannot feel sympathy, empathy and kindness if they are not taught to appreciate one another. An ignorant Muslim is no exception.

Contrast the ignorant layman to the 'alim. Does the Muslim scholar believe the rights of anyone should be transgressed? Does the Qur'an and Sunnah reflect the actions you've described? The answer is no. Don't assume all Muslims have enough knowledge of the religion that will lead them to righteous actions as the truly righteous have always been few in number.

You should spend your energy making dua and advising those whom you can within your community to make a difference. The ummah of today is in need of people that will take action rather than feeling helpless at our current state.

It is rather hard to educate people. Especially if nationalism has embraced the heart. People REFUSE to ponder. If they ponder they KNOW it is wrong what is happening..but out of pride and thinking if i humiliate myself in the face of people by dismissing this bad nationalist-culture behavior people will brand me bad..not thinking of that Allah(swt) rather would elevate them.

Read my signature..Allah will not change the condition of a people, if the......

**'Abd-al Latif** · 03-07-2017

My advice is to travel around the Muslim world as much as you can. If you see the reality of our people you'll have a much better idea of the context as opposed to reading someone's point of view or watching something on YouTube.

**Simple_Person** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif

I forgot to mention that there are also good examples of Muslims living peacefully with others, be it atheists, Jews, Christians or others. The city of Marrakech in Morocco is split into three areas. One area is for the Jews, one for Christians and one for Muslims. You see the three groups of people freely mixing amongst one another and they all have their own places of worship. They worship freely without there being any conflict.

The Ahmedi around the world stir a great deal of problems because they are unanimously considered non-Muslim. There is a context behind the conflict for each group but ultimately the reasons and motivations behind the conflict today boils down to ignorance.

As a Kurd myself, i found it very bizarre when i came to the west hearing Muslims and people of other faiths didn't get a long. Back home we had all kind of people from all kind of religions. Nobody bothering each other. So i have myself not known anything different than Muslims, Jews, Christians and other religious groups living peacefully side by side.

**ardianto** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif

Whatever problem you see in the Muslim world today is because of ignorance. People cannot feel sympathy, empathy and kindness if they are not taught to appreciate one another. An ignorant Muslim is no exception.

Contrast the ignorant layman to the 'alim. Does the Muslim scholar believe the rights of anyone should be transgressed? Does the Qur'an and Sunnah reflect the actions you've described? The answer is no. Don't assume all Muslims have enough knowledge of the religion that will lead them to righteous actions as the truly righteous have always been few in number.

You should spend your energy making dua and advising those whom you can within your community to make a difference. The ummah of today is in need of people that will take action rather than feeling helpless at our current state.

Alhamdulillah, finally someone brings the thread back to the original topic.

**sister herb** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

We have another member who is from Turkey and is more mature and not mentally unstable. Who said this:

And do you think that all human right workers from Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International too are unmature and unstable?

I'm not saying Erdogan is an angel nor is he personally going out there and torturing the people or maybe aware of how they are being interrogated. Then again, we see such interrogations in all nations, Muslim or otherwise, so I don't see why we are crying and making a big deal about this one in particular.

So we better be quiet, close our eyes and let it happens when people are suffering? What if one of the victims would to be your relative? Still wondering why to keep the noise about this one? None of them is my relative. But they all are my sisters and brothers (in Islam or in humanity).

As human beings we should be very worry and make it a very big deal when anywhere, anyone will face kind of treatment like torturing or other kind of political violence. No not only in Turkey but everywhere.

Why bother? Because of humanity.

**aaj** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

i am not mentally unstable, i have autism and ADHD....second, gulen movement did not try to overthrow the "democratically elected government of turkey," (elections rigged, no coup by gulenists), and i have provided sources for you to learn from, but you dismiss it in the name of Turkish nationalist nonsense....you dismiss any source i put out, because "the west is killing muslims".....so anyone who kills muslims is lying, right? well, what do you think muslims are doing to each other? they're eating each other alive......and dont act like aljazeera is such a reliable source.....or that the turkish media is such a reliable source.....and i find it highly unlikely that an intelligence community would make up lies against erdogan, especially when turkish intelligence is banned from speaking....

You are clearly anti-turkish government because of what they are doing to gulenists.Which is understandable but have you ever considered that culprit is playing the victim here? if you find it highly unlikely that an intelligence community would make up lies then you have a lot to learn. Fact of the matter is, regardless of what gulenist think or outsiders think, the narrative within the nation is what the nation believes and follow.

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

second, those soldiers being part of the coup being from jamaat is a lie, they were forced to say that under torture, which you chose to ignore out of "Turkish pride"

So it's your word, a gulenist, against the word of the turkist government and its people ?

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

third, people like you and your politicians are the ones that make me feel ashamed to be a Muslim.

I care not for any politicians. Bro, you should focus more on deen then politics. Whether you are ashamed to be a Muslim or not should be based on whether you agree or not with tenets of Islam not politics and what other Muslims do.

Take a break from all these politics and as 'Abd-al Latif' suggested, focus your energy on your deen and community.

**Mustafa16** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

You are clearly anti-turkish government because of what they are doing to gulenists.Which is understandable but have you ever considered that culprit is playing the victim here? if you find it highly unlikely that an intelligence community would make up lies then you have a lot to learn. Fact of the matter is, regardless of what gulenist think or outsiders think, the narrative within the nation is what the nation believes and follow.

So it's your word, a gulenist, against the word of the turkist government and its people ?

I care not for any politicians. Bro, you should focus more on deen then politics. Whether you are ashamed to be a Muslim or not should be based on whether you agree or not with tenets of Islam not politics and what other Muslims do.

Take a break from all these politics and as 'Abd-al Latif' suggested, focus your energy on your deen and community.

Turkish intelligence has said nothing. American intelligence has. Turkish media is not free. American media is. Turkish media is against Gulenists. American media is for them. Turkey is a dictatorship led by a man who lives in a thousand room palace built on public land. America is a free, open constitutional republic led by a man in a 20 bedroom house restricted by courts, and congress. You have failed to address my evidence. End of story.

**Simple_Person** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

Turkish intelligence has said nothing. American intelligence has. Turkish media is not free. American media is. Turkish media is against Gulenists. American media is for them. Turkey is a dictatorship led by a man who lives in a thousand room palace built on public land. America is a free, open constitutional republic led by a man in a 20 bedroom house restricted by courts, and congress. You have failed to address my evidence. End of story.

Don't be so sure about that bro. As Turkey is a dictatorship we all can agree..that is the same with US. There is no freedom..it is all a illusion. US is a modern dictatorship, while Turkey is struggling to show it self as the modern dictatorship.

**Serinity** · 03-07-2017

Guys, bad is bad, Justice is Justice, Injustice is Injustice, etc.

We have to stand up for Justice, whether it be against ourselves or otherwise.

I admit, I have no knowledge of the Political situation. But do not be patriotic about any human being living on this Earth right now.

We will be questioned by Allah

,, Erdogan will go to his grave, and you to yours, so why do you care about their political status? Care more about Allah

. If Erdogan is an oppressor, then stop him. If your brother is, stop him, your father? stop him, etc.

I am not morally obliged to defend any immoral person, be it Erdogan, or the Muslims today, or my own father or mother.

Allahu alam.

**Mustafa16** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Don't be so sure about that bro. As Turkey is a dictatorship we all can agree..that is the same with US. There is no freedom..it is all a illusion. US is a modern dictatorship, while Turkey is struggling to show it self as the modern dictatorship.

the definition of a dictatorship is a country where there is total one-man rule, where one person holds all absolute power, but the US is not a dictatorship....it has "checks and balances" so one branch of government or one person can never gain absolute power, be it congress, the president, or the courts.....donald trump is not an all powerful dictator, even he is bound by the courts and congress, and people are allowed to insult him all they want....

**Mustafa16** · 03-07-2017

guide to checks and balances: https://bensguide.gpo.gov/j-check-balance

**Mustafa16** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Simple_Person

Don't be so sure about that bro. As Turkey is a dictatorship we all can agree..that is the same with US. There is no freedom..it is all a illusion. US is a modern dictatorship, while Turkey is struggling to show it self as the modern dictatorship.

I think the term you are looking for is oligarchy ("rule by the few" not dictatorship which is "rule by one man", but that is also not accurate, American people are free to get involved in the political process, even if they are not in the select few, or are rich. They are simply too lazy. many of the poorest Americans even become the richest people.

**Simple_Person** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

the definition of a dictatorship is a country where there is total one-man rule, where one person holds all absolute power, but the US is not a dictatorship....it has "checks and balances" so one branch of government or one person can never gain absolute power, be it congress, the president, or the courts.....donald trump is not an all powerful dictator, even he is bound by the courts and congress, and people are allowed to insult him all they want....

That is the illusion that i am talking about. The biggest achievement of the modern day is making people believe that they are free under democracy and rule of law. When a human being knows what he/she is up to, one can adjust to the situation. For example in a clear dictatorship..you adjust your behavior. In a "modern dictatorship" aka "democratic country" like here in the west. When you tell the truth, you are being branded as a terrorist. The media will tell your story to the people and everybody will see you as a terrorist.

A very good example is Anwar al-Awlaki. He was one of the Muslims who said EXACTLY that which hurts them.

Battle of the hearts lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mye66so3els

Very good documentary is (Dirty Wars (2013) )

**Serinity** · 03-07-2017

Who is Anwar Al-Awlaki?

**Mustafa16** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Serinity

Who is Anwar Al-Awlaki?

an al qaeda recruiter...I can't believe @Simple_Person is supporting him.

**Serinity** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

an al qaeda recruiter...I can't believe @Simple_Person is supporting him.

Really?

**anatolian** · 03-07-2017

Why? Because most Muslims follow politics rather than Islam's itself. Those policies or their politicians tell them to do things which are not in Islam and people are doing everything they tell regarding it as the commendments of the religion. We are living in age of information technologies but we are rather ignorant. It is not because of the lack of information but because of the lack of common sense.

**aaj** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Serinity

Really?

he is parroting what the west has taught him. I would suggest doing your own research.

Anwar was an american citizen and an imam who was very vocal against corrupt muslim rulers, scholars and western governments. he was labeled as a 'terrorist' and taken out, like many Muslims these days do or end up in torture cells without due process by the intelligence that he is praising.

**Snel** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by Mustafa16

gulen is not a tyrant, silly, he is an imam and religious scholar....to be a tyrant, you have to be the leader of a nation or terrorist organization

My bad, he's not a tyrant, he seeks to be a tyrant.

What kind of muslim scholar promotes Jalal al-Din Rumi?

Rumi, a poet who liked to write heresy, like this:

"I became the One
whose name everybody takes an oath to." - I am the One by Jalal al-Din Rumi

**Mustafa16** · 03-07-2017

Originally Posted by aaj

he is parroting what the west has taught him. I would suggest doing your own research.

Anwar was an american citizen and an imam who was very vocal against corrupt muslim rulers, scholars and western governments. he was labeled as a 'terrorist' and taken out, like many Muslims these days do or end up in torture cells without due process by the intelligence that he is praising.

and where do you get your knowledge on these matters? where do you even live? if the answer is Turkey, you are clearly brainwashed, and listen to sabah and yeni safak, and if the answer if Germany, you probably live in some Turkish ghetto, also brainwashed, if you live in regular Germany or another regular, informed, and free part of a free speech practicing society, you should realize that you are not an intelligence operative, and so you do not know the American deep state better than the American deep state, and you have still failed to address the lack of Turkish intelligence reporting, Turkish corruption and culture and practice of totalitarianism, and the fact that anyone who questions Erdogan (even if he is an HDP politician, or a governor, a federal judge, or a intelligence officer), they are thrown in jail. so your point is moot. and even if your point is not moot by what I have just said, aside from that, my mistake of trusting Wikipedia for info on an imam, is no grounds for you to float your lies about my family's jamaat. You Turks always do this. (e.g. what we do to the Kurds? do you have any idea what the Jews do to the Palestinians??? my answer: "Ok, so my comparing your treatment of Kurds to the treatment of Palestinians, you are admitting what you are doing is wrong, and that what they are doing is wrong. just because theyre right doesn't make you right and wrong at the same time). as always, deflect, as someone from a third world country with an improper educational system, which the gulenists were trying to fix.