Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"? (OP)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of bahais in Iran (and everywhere)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of Gulenists in Turkey (and not even because they are considered heretics, but that certainly helps)
Horrendous and systematic persecution of Ahmadis in Pakistan and Palestine.
Horrendous abuse of Christians
Horrendous abuse of Jews
genocide against yazidis
sunni-shia conflict
what the heck is wrong with the muslim world? we complain about the abuse of Muslims in Burma, Kashmir, Palestine, Syria (which by the way, is also a place where yezidis and Christians are being butchered) and east Turkestan, the CAR in Africa, etc.
to be a muslim is to stand up for human rights anywhere and everywhere......
why do we only complain about ourselves? we hardly complain for the rights of non muslims, unless we live in the lands of the kuffar and fear lynching or hate crimes, but in the dar al islam, we don't fear, we let loose.....human beings are worthy of being treated with dignity....how would you like it if that was your sister, your daughter, your mother, your son, your brother, your friend, your father, etc.?
we complain about how human rights groups make "misleading reports" about Islamic countries....how is it misleading when you are not allowed to criticize your ruler because he is king or president or prime minister, where heads of state are thieves who hoard billions in wealth on enormous palaces, where corruption is rampant, where journalists are jailed, where insulting a leader IS A CRIME! where torture is rampant, where you are guilty until proven innocent....has anyone ever read the life of our Prophet (PBUH) and his companions? a kharijite came and insulted Umar (RA) in the masjid! they told Umar (RA) to react, but he said, he has a right to say what he wants...! astaghfirullah I am ashamed to be associated with the likes of Palestine, turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc.
My bad, he's not a tyrant, he seeks to be a tyrant. What kind of muslim scholar promotes Jalal al-Din Rumi?
uh-oh. looks like we got a salafi on our hands. so just because he is a heretic or false muslim he is also a terrorist trying to overthrow the Turkish government and become absolute ruler?
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
@aaj
perhaps you did address it, as you said, "Erdogan is not an angel" but you failed to address epistemology and ethos, meaning te way this impacts our ability to trust info coming from him.
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
uh-oh. looks like we got a salafi on our hands. so just because he is a heretic or false muslim he is also a terrorist trying to overthrow the Turkish government and become absolute ruler?
I'm a muslim, I don't put labels on myself.
He's a heretic, and he's probably going to terrorize people who are in political opposition to himself. I don't know about him becoming a complete dictator but the risk is there. You can't possibly be serious about supporting a guy like this. Erdogan is a tyrant, yes, but this man is no better.
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by aaj
he is parroting what the west has taught him. I would suggest doing your own research.
Anwar was an american citizen and an imam who was very vocal against corrupt muslim rulers, scholars and western governments. he was labeled as a 'terrorist' and taken out, like many Muslims these days do or end up in torture cells without due process by the intelligence that he is praising.
is it not possible he was doing both? being vocal about corrupt muslim rulers, scholars, and western governments, as well as recruiting for al Qaeda????
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Snel
I'm a muslim, I don't put labels on myself.
He's a heretic, and he's probably going to terrorize people who are in political opposition to himself. I don't know about him becoming a complete dictator but the risk is there. You can't possibly be serious about supporting a guy like this. Erdogan is a tyrant, yes, but this man is no better.
there is do deep state connection to gulen. there were three crackdowns in recent years against gulenists from Erdogan. 1) 2013 corruption scandal, where Erdogan and his minister were accepting bribes and exchanging gold for Iranian oil. (Iran....? killer of sunnis anyone?)......2) 2014-2015.....courts had a arrant to wiretap politicians.....so, legal.....3) military coup attempt, which I have already disproven was from gulen...watch this....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIsErcnaDD0
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Snel
I'm a muslim, I don't put labels on myself.
He's a heretic, and he's probably going to terrorize people who are in political opposition to himself. I don't know about him becoming a complete dictator but the risk is there. You can't possibly be serious about supporting a guy like this. Erdogan is a tyrant, yes, but this man is no better.
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
there is do deep state connection to gulen. there were three crackdowns in recent years against gulenists from Erdogan. 1) 2013 corruption scandal, where Erdogan and his minister were accepting bribes and exchanging gold for Iranian oil. (Iran....? killer of sunnis anyone?)......2) 2014-2015.....courts had a arrant to wiretap politicians.....so, legal.....3) military coup attempt, which I have already disproven was from gulen...watch this....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIsErcnaDD0
I support neither Erdogan nor Gulen, I've made my position clear on that many times. Turkey needs an alternative to those two.
Rumi, a poet who liked to write heresy, like this:
"I became the One
whose name everybody takes an oath to." - I am the One by Jalal al-Din Rumi
wait a minute.....did Rumi actually say that? you know.....I really am starting to question some of this extreme Sufism....perhaps I should ditch gulenism in favor of mainstream islam, and go to mainstream masjids and marry a mainstream muslim woman.....if gulen praises a man who said that, then....wow.....but, sources please? EDIT: However, I will still stand for fair treatment of gulenists, however, at this point, I don't have as much attachment....but, I am a very volatile person, so that could soon change, as many can testify....
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
wait a minute.....did Rumi actually say that? you know.....I really am starting to question some of this extreme Sufism....perhaps I should ditch gulenism in favor of mainstream islam, and go to mainstream masjids and marry a mainstream muslim woman.....if gulen praises a man who said that, then....wow.....but, sources please? EDIT: However, I will still stand for fair treatment of gulenists, however, at this point, I don't have as much attachment....but, I am a very volatile person, so that could soon change, as many can testify....
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
@aaj
just because I start to think that perhaps gulenists are fake muslims, does not make me for a second believe they were responsible for the coup......Erdogan is still firaun, and this argument is not over, unless you forfeit, which means ive won......
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
an al qaeda recruiter...I can't believe @Simple_Person is supporting him.
No not supporting him. I support him before he became like that. As before that his mind was still intact. So please bro, don't twist things. Within Islam there is absolutely NO excuse to kill innocent people. The lecture that i gave you is the one BEFORE he became like that. Very beneficial lecture i must say. But i will never tell anybody to listen to him after he joined al-qaeda.
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
@aaj just because I start to think that perhaps gulenists are fake muslims, does not make me for a second believe they were responsible for the coup......Erdogan is still firaun, and this argument is not over, unless you forfeit, which means ive won......
Brother there is NO winning in a discussion. If that was your intention to "win" from those pro-Erdogan supporters, well you have lost already when you started it. In a discussion is ONLY what is the truth nothing else matters.
Last edited by Simple_Person; 03-08-2017 at 06:59 AM.
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
is it not possible he was doing both? being vocal about corrupt muslim rulers, scholars, and western governments, as well as recruiting for al Qaeda????
Brother in this case, go study what has happened to him first. You cannot say directly he was a al Qaeda supporter. He became an al Qaeda supporter AFTER jail and torture etc. happened to him. Before this, he said EXACTLY what the truth was. So it is not so black and white as you point it out to be.
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
I'm glad to see that there are mainstream muslims like @sister herb and you, Snel, and @Serinity who see things differently and with a desire for justice, just goes to show I don't have to be Gulenist, in fact your quote by Rumi is starting to make me think they could be wrong theologically....
This is your issue to be honest. I am not sure based on what you support Gulen. Just because he "wants" to follow the path of Said Nursi? (while also giving the drop of oil to it (nationalism) ). Well you can follow that path without being part of any group. Just be a Muslim who follows the Qur'an and sunnah and stands up against injustice. You think because many of us not support Gulen or Erdogan are "backward" or what? Internet and all the knowledge that is available is open for everybody not just one of those two groups you know. Also there is no "mainstream" Muslim. We Muslims always want to tag things. There is no sunni, shia, alewi, sufi you name it. There is only Muslim. You follow either Qur'an and Sunnah or you don't. But for yor own sake you better have a very solid argument why you don't follow it. As simple as that.
Last edited by Simple_Person; 03-08-2017 at 07:01 AM.
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
Dear dudes and duddettes,
Please stick to the topic and avoid slandering, backbiting and bickering when communicating with one another. This is a forum not a jungle. Anyone who refuses to do so shall face the mighty wrath of my keyboard. Be warned - it's new!
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
Re: Why don't Muslims respect the rights of non Muslims and "heretics"?
format_quote Originally Posted by Snel
My bad, I just double-checked, it seems that he just arrested them. I'm sorry.
Jazakallahu khairan for correcting yourself and letting us know about it. I don't like Erdogan nor Gulen as both of them follow nationalism with the mask of Islam. However truth must always be said.
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