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    Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons (OP)


    Salaam

    Americans strategic patience with North Korea has come to an end. We all know what that means.

    Good video on the coming crises.


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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

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    Silk roads is truly the end of anglo-American dominance
    Look like I need to start learning Chinese
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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Salaam

    Another update, the situation is getting worse


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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by syphax View Post
    Silk roads is truly the end of anglo-American dominance
    Look like I need to start learning Chinese
    No the Chinese keep to themselves, they are not interested in global conquest like the West.

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Salaam

    This is an unusual interpretation of whats going on.

    North Korea’s strategy is to ease out of China’s patronage
    Pyongyang aims to monetise its nuclear threat to seek engagement with US


    Since President Donald Trump was sworn into office, the perception of risk surrounding North Korea has risen to levels not seen for over a decade.

    At present, significant progress in Kim Jong Un’s quest to develop nuclear-tipped intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of reaching the continental US — coupled with a relatively unorthodox US administration — is threatening to significantly alter the Korean peninsula’s geopolitical equilibrium.

    Yet rather than acting recklessly, North Korea is in the midst of executing a three-stage road map to achieve its ultimate objective of gaining political capital and financial leverage by monetising its nuclear capabilities. Underpinning this plan is an under-appreciated factor lying outside of the geopolitical sphere: the growing strength of North Korea’s local economy.

    The first stage of Mr Kim’s plan involves the development of nuclear weapons followed by a distancing from China. Since the Korean war armistice was signed in 1953, China has been the de facto caretaker of North Korea, safeguarding a finely balanced peace on the Korean peninsula.

    What is underestimated about this relationship is its degree of lopsidedness: China’s role as guardian provides the country with major political leverage without fundamentally benefiting North Korea. While China’s economy has seen unprecedented growth from its embrace of free trade and financial market liberalisation, North Korea remains a hermit kingdom mired in poverty.

    Under-appreciated in the west is the growing dissatisfaction among North Korea’s power brokers with the current situation. Indeed, after decades of languishing in China’s shadow, North Korea has grown increasingly aware that the political and economic dividends from its ally’s patronage have been withering.

    Against this backdrop, escaping from China’s shadow will be imperative for Mr Kim’s regime. After all, if the world believes that China has firm control over its neighbour, Mr Kim and his generals have no leverage. While the ongoing distancing of North Korea from China may cause economic damage in the short term, it is a prerequisite for the acquisition of bargaining power on the global stage.

    The machinations and savvy of North Korea have consistently been undervalued. Currently, North Korea is moving towards stage two of its strategy: forcing its way into bilateral talks by escalating tensions with the US.

    Ultimately, Mr Kim wants to reach a settlement granting North Korea recognition as a legitimate nuclear nation, as well as unlimited economic upside from the lifting of sanctions. In other words, North Korea is seeking engagement with and recognition from the US.

    So far, economic sanctions have proved toothless against a regime that shows little regard for the wellbeing of its people. In fact, in the face of the international community’s efforts to isolate North Korea, there are signs pointing to on-the-ground, market-driven progress. Mr Kim is establishing strong support via economic reforms centred on building up the middle class.

    Specifically, the North Korean regime has been allowing its citizens to engage in basic trading and commerce activities since 2011 when Mr Kim first took power. Anecdotal evidence points to an emerging consumer class benefiting from the trading of goods made from Chinese raw materials, contributing to an economic vibrancy not seen for decades. North Korea may be making strides in productivity and income growth reminiscent of China in the 1990s.

    In August, the US and Japan proposed oil sanctions on Mr Kim’s region for the first time. Oil is critical to North Korea’s military operations and winter heating. In recent years, China has reluctantly agreed to UN sanctions on North Korea but has insisted on supplying energy to its neighbour, knowing full well that cutting off oil supply could fatally sever the two countries’ already tenuous alliance. Therefore, China’s ultimate decision on oil sanctions will be a critical turning point for the escalation of North Korea risk for financial markets.

    From a geopolitical perspective, the perception of North Korea risk remains elevated. Financial markets, however, are largely indifferent to the sabre-rattling, which may raise the stakes even more. As disputes escalate, so too will North Korea’s bargaining power and therefore the price of its demands.

    From 2018, investors should look out for the transition point between stages two and three of Mr Kim’s grand plan, which is monetisation and resolution. North Korea’s optimal point of bargaining power will take place when it perfects the technology to fire a nuclear-armed ICBM to the US west coast. Until then, Mr Kim will continue to play a game of seemingly inconsistent sabre-rattling that will buy time for him and his missile programme.

    All in all, given that north-east Asia generates $17.5tn in GDP, or 23.5 per cent of the global total, it is unlikely that the relevant parties will risk a war or even a major military conflict.

    In addition, a broad-based desire to contain the threat of nuclear technology sales to terrorist organisations is perhaps a greater reason for preventing a miscalculation by key parties.

    As such, looking past dramatic news flows, there is an urgent need for the US and UN to accept the reality of North Korea as a permanent nuclear power. In order for that to materialise, a greater appreciation for North Korea’s strategy and its long-term goals is advised for western leaders and investors.

    https://www.ft.com/content/dd9f1eaa-e57c-11e7-97e2-916d4fbac0da

    - - - Updated - - -

    Salaam

    Oh no not THIS again.

    George Galloway oblierates a warmongering caller who wants NORTH KOREA NUKED!


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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Salaam

    The situation is getting worse and worse. Might as well call it a economic blockade. Prelude to war?


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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    The North Korean leader is a complete psychopath with a deficient education and a delusional worldview. A guy like that with ICBMs is terrifying.

    It is in China's best interests to order him to dismantle his nuclear program and try to normalize relations with the western world (it isn't just the US--many other nations have repeatedly condemned NK).

    Otherwise, Kim is going to sink an American warship and his capital will be reduced to rubble. A million North Koreans will flee across the border to China, causing a refugee and economic crisis.
    1 | Likes fromelsewhere liked this post

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Greetings,

    The situation with North Korea has concerned me more and more this past year. It is a looming humanitarian crisis the likes of which the world hasn't seen in a long time. What is worse, I don't see how we're going to get out of this peacefully. Inflammatory rhetoric aside, NK and US have a seemingly unresolvable conflict.

    We (US citizens) are just not going to be OK with NK having nuke capability to hit our populations centers on the west coast. The public won't accept it, Congress won't accept it, the President won't accept it. We'll do anything to prevent it. Right or wrong, this is the state of the American mind. For their part, North Korea will never give up its nuclear ambitions. It's their only path to international relevance, and Kim's only sure way to stay in power.

    If it comes to war, I don't see any good options. US could defeat NK and depose Kim very quickly, but at what cost? Our own military losses would be minimal, but South Korea could face casualty numbers in the tens of thousands. The only way to mitigate this is to impose even higher casualities and destruction on NK at the outset of hostilities. Given that we will want peace with NK very quickly, and NK and SK could be looking at reunification, it is a horrible situation if either side sustatins heavy damage.

    The only possible solution I see is the one mentioned earlier in this thread. Since US will not accept NK nuclearization, we should be willing to negotiate the cessation of joint SK/US military exercises, at least for the short term. I'm hoping China will save us all from ourselves here. China stands to lose a lot in terms of security (who would want US military on their doorstep?) and having to deal with the massive humanitarian crisis that war would cause.

    I'm hoping that 2018 will bring cooler attitudes to both countries, and a way out will present itself.

    --Dan Edge
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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Silas View Post
    The North Korean leader is a complete psychopath with a deficient education and a delusional worldview. A guy like that with ICBMs is terrifying.

    It is in China's best interests to order him to dismantle his nuclear program and try to normalize relations with the western world (it isn't just the US--many other nations have repeatedly condemned NK).

    Otherwise, Kim is going to sink an American warship and his capital will be reduced to rubble. A million North Koreans will flee across the border to China, causing a refugee and economic crisis.
    Wouldn't it be best if the USA leads by example and totally disarms itself of these horrible nuclear weapons. Otherwise it is total hypocrisy. As far as I'm concerned, every sovereign state, has every right to process any weapons it deems necessary to defend itself. At the end of the day North Korea is politically allied with China and they are the same peoples with ancient connections. So from the Western point of view they are considered the "yellow peril" and an enemy of the West. Where as China and North Koreans realizes the West is nothing more than a Zionist occupied rabid imperialist barbaric alliance of war pigs.
    1 | Likes happymuslim liked this post

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    I think that in reality, Kim Jong Un is terrified that his people turn against him since they live in dirt-poor conditions. To justify his stupid dictatorship to his people who would otherwise be furious to see how SK is thriving while NK is a humanitarian disaster, he has to create an artificial conflict with a powerful country. The US makes for a great scapegoat given that it is a far away nuclear power that is really not that interested in getting involved in a conflict at the other end of the world, unless it really has to. Kim provokes the US just enough for the US leaders (not all bright lights..duh) to in turn threaten NK back so that Kim can then justify to his people the spending of countless resources to build up the military that can then help keep Kim in power.

    To me it seems like the only right way for this conflict to be solved is for the people in North Korea to wake up and overturn the system. Unfortunately, this is not easy to do as North Koreans are hostages to their government. They are only taught in school what the government wants them to be taught. They then are obligated to go into the military or work in government-owned farms/factories. All the news they received has been heavily censured. So I imagine that many North Koreans, especially of the younger generations, have little to no idea of what goes on beyond the borders of North Korea. It's an Orwellian 1984-like situation.

    Edit: the other way out I see is that Kim grows a brain and heart and gradually dismantles his dictatorship by himself without being forced into it... just like how Gorbachev dismantled the USSR.
    Last edited by fromelsewhere; 01-02-2018 at 03:08 AM.

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    I cant see how China is going to allow NK to attack anything - I cant see China letting the US come so close to its Border. Recipe for ww3.
    2 | Likes Junon, muslimah_B liked this post
    Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    The teachings of Islam can fail under no circumstances. With all our systems of culture and civilization, we can not go beyond Islam and, as a matter of fact, no human mind can go beyond the Qur'an.

    (Letter of Goethe to Eckermann, Sir Henry Elliott's collection, 1865)

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DanEdge View Post
    The only possible solution I see is the one mentioned earlier in this thread. Since US will not accept NK nuclearization, we should be willing to negotiate the cessation of joint SK/US military exercises, at least for the short term. I'm hoping China will save us all from ourselves here. China stands to lose a lot in terms of security (who would want US military on their doorstep?) and having to deal with the massive humanitarian crisis that war would cause
    I must say that I'm skeptical that ceasing the joint SK/US military exercises would produce any results. I think that the whole purpose of Kim Jong Un's government to develop nukes and threaten the US is in reality to distract his people from the pressing humanitarian crisis looming in NK. China seems to be quite indifferent to the whole conflict. In fact, they probably find it quite amusing to see Trump and Kim trade barbs. They count on Kim and Trump to not be stupid enough to actually press the button.

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Salaam

    Another update

    ‘Shrewd & mature N. Korean leader has won this round' – Putin on peninsula crisis

    North Korean leader Kim Jong-un has emerged a winner in the latest crisis around the Korean Peninsula, Russian president Vladimir Putin said. He believes Pyongyang is now trying to defuse tensions.

    “I believe, Mr Kim Jong-un has certainly won this round,” Putin told journalists at a meeting with the Russian media. He said North Korea has achieved its strategic goal.

    “He has a nuclear [charge] and a … missile with a range of up to 13,000 kilometers that can reach almost any place on Earth or at least any territory of his potential adversary,” Putin told journalists on Thursday. The Russian president said the North Korean leader is likely to be seeking an easing of tensions in the region.

    “He is already an absolutely shrewd and mature politician,” Putin added.

    The latest crisis around the Korean Peninsula broke out in September 2017 after Pyongyang claimed it had conducted a hydrogen bomb test. The US responded to North Korean actions by flexing its muscles and conducting a number of military drills in the region with its allies South Korea and Japan. North Korea replied to this saber-rattling by conducting several missile tests, including one, according to Pyongyang, involving an intercontinental ballistic missile.

    Both Pyongyang and Washington, along with its allies, added further fuel to the fire by issuing repeated threats against one another. US President Donald Trump repeatedly said the US could use a “military option” in dealing with the crisis and even threatened to “totally destroy North Korea” during the annual General Debate of the 72nd session of the UN General Assembly. More recently Trump said in a Twitter post that his “nuclear button” is “bigger and more powerful.”

    Russia and China, by contrast, have called for a peaceful resolution of the crisis from from the outset. Moscow and Beijing put forward a “double freeze” initiative that envisaged the US and its allies halting all major military exercises in the region in exchange for Pyongyang suspending its nuclear and ballistic missile program. The initiative was, however, turned down by Washington.

    Russia also repeatedly called on all parties involved in the Korean crisis to “break the vicious cycle of confrontation, reckless schemes and sanctions” and engage into a meaningful dialog instead. In December, the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said North Korea wants to engage in a direct dialog with the US to assure its security, adding that Russia could help with these talks.

    In January, Pyongyang and Seoul agreed to hold high-level bilateral talks to discuss the North’s potential participation in the Winter Olympics in PyeongChang, as well as other issues related to improving relations. The move followed North Korean leader Kim Jong-un’s New Year message, in which he wished success for the 2018 Olympics.

    During the talks held on January 9, the two sides agreed on the participation of North Korean athletes in the South Korean Olympics. They also discussed the potential reunification of families separated by the Korean War. In a significant breakthrough, the two Koreas agreed on talks between army officials in order to avoid dangerous military incidents.

    Pyongyang’s chief negotiator, however said there was no need to discuss the North Korean nuclear program because all its weapons “are only aimed at the United States, not our brethren, nor China and Russia.” Trump meanwhile has claimed it was his aggressive stance that made the negotiations between two Koreas possible.

    https://www.rt.com/news/415628-putin-says-shrewd-korean-leader-won/

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons


    وَلَقَدْ أُوحِىَ إِلَيْكَ وَإِلَى ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكَ لَئِنْ أَشْرَكْتَ لَيَحْبَطَنَّ عَمَلُكَ وَلَتَكُونَنَّ مِنَ ٱلْخَٰسِرِينَ
    "If you join others in worship with Allah, then surely all your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers." (39:65)
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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere View Post
    I think that in reality, Kim Jong Un is terrified that his people turn against him since they live in dirt-poor conditions. To justify his stupid dictatorship to his people who would otherwise be furious to see how SK is thriving while NK is a humanitarian disaster, he has to create an artificial conflict with a powerful country. The US makes for a great scapegoat given that it is a far away nuclear power that is really not that interested in getting involved in a conflict at the other end of the world, unless it really has to. Kim provokes the US just enough for the US leaders (not all bright lights..duh) to in turn threaten NK back so that Kim can then justify to his people the spending of countless resources to build up the military that can then help keep Kim in power.
    Cool story bro.

    In the real world, the USA has flat-out refused any kind of diplomatic rapproachment with North Korea. Clinton did an attempt during his presidency and it was mostly going fine, but then came Bush and declared North Korea to be part of the Axis of Evil. North Korean militarization is a rational response to a world in which toothless regimes that the USA doesn't like tend to get regime-changed.

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    Cool story bro.

    In the real world, the USA has flat-out refused any kind of diplomatic rapproachment with North Korea. Clinton did an attempt during his presidency and it was mostly going fine, but then came Bush and declared North Korea to be part of the Axis of Evil. North Korean militarization is a rational response to a world in which toothless regimes that the USA doesn't like tend to get regime-changed.
    "In the real world" a Muslim would never tolerate a Mushrik having so much as a stone and the fact the US wants to wipe out these Mushriks that stand side-by-side with Assad, Iran, and Russia should be welcomed by the Ummah and praised as when the Persians and Byzantines would clash.

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Salaam

    Another update. Again another unusual interpretation of whats going on, or maybe he's trying to be humorous.

    A tuneful cry for help from Kim's favourite girl band


    Having visited North Korea, and found it crumbling, militarily decrepit and kept going mainly by copious quantities of fiery rice spirit, I have decided that all its actions are really a shout for help, hoping to be rescued from China by the USA.

    Plans by Kim Jong Un to deploy his hand-picked Moranbong Band in South Korea, on a new charm offensive, suggest that the hermit state’s leader is more humorous and diplomatic than we may have guessed.

    The band look rather like Pyongyang’s hypnotically lovely female traffic police, who conduct the capital’s sparse traffic with graceful gestures, day and night – another example of how North Korea isn’t quite what we think it is, and may in fact be something else altogether.

    http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Salaam

    Another update

    SOROS: The US 'is set on a course toward nuclear war' with North Korea

    George Soros on Thursday said the Trump administration's refusal to accept North Korea's nuclear capabilities was putting the countries on a path toward nuclear war.

    In a speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Soros said that for the US to avoid nuclear war, President Donald Trump and other leaders should accept North Korea as a nuclear power.

    "The threat of nuclear war is so horrendous that we are inclined to ignore it, but it is real," Soros said, according to a text of his prepared remarks. "Indeed, the United States is set on a course toward nuclear war by refusing to accept that North Korea has become a nuclear power."

    Soros, a longtime Democratic megadonor and hedge fund manager, said the US's concerns about North Korea's nuclear capability was cultivating a vicious circle that was pushing the two countries toward conflict.

    "This creates a strong incentive for North Korea to develop its nuclear capacity with all possible speed, which in turn may induce the United States to use its nuclear superiority preemptively — in effect, to start a nuclear war in order to prevent nuclear war, an obviously self-contradictory strategy," he said.

    The only solution, Soros said, is for the US to recognize North Korea as a nuclear power and align with China, Japan, and South Korea to establish an agreement to prevent a war.

    In addition to the threat of nuclear war, Soros expressed concerns about the Trump administration and the populist sentiments the president espouses.

    "Clearly, I consider the Trump administration a danger to the world, but I regard it as a purely temporary phenomenon that will disappear in 2020 or even sooner," Soros said. "I give President Trump credit for motivating his core supporters brilliantly — but for every core supporter, he has created a greater number of core opponents who are equally strongly motivated. That is why I expect a Democratic landslide in 2018."

    Soros compared Trump's moves in the US to Vladimir Putin's in Russia.

    "I find the current moment in history rather painful," he said. "Open societies are in crisis, and various forms of dictatorships and mafia states, exemplified by Putin's Russia, are on the rise."

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/george-soros-davos-speech-trump-north-korea-nuclear-war-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by JustTime View Post
    "In the real world" a Muslim would never tolerate a Mushrik having so much as a stone and the fact the US wants to wipe out these Mushriks that stand side-by-side with Assad, Iran, and Russia should be welcomed by the Ummah and praised as when the Persians and Byzantines would clash.
    You must be kidding with us. America is the most harming country in The World to Muslims. Most of it’s profit comes from the clashes resulting the persecution of muslims. NK is rather a harmless country at the moment for Muslims and a harmles mushrik is better than a harming christian

    The reason why Muslims supported the Byzantines was because the mushriks were supporting the Sasanids. Apart from that Muslims never took the Byzantines as allies
    2 | Likes happymuslim, Junon liked this post
    Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    You must be kidding with us. America is the most harming country in The World to Muslims. Most of it’s profit comes from the clashes resulting the persecution of muslims. NK is rather a harmless country at the moment for Muslims and a harmles mushrik is better than a harming christian

    The reason why Muslims supported the Byzantines was because the mushriks were supporting the Sasanids. Apart from that Muslims never took the Byzantines as allies
    You must be kidding your nafs and rouh no a Muslim with an atom's weight of insight into al-wala wa bara would never utter a word in support of these people the North Koreans, Make Dua this filthy nation is wiped off the face of the Earth like the people of 'Ad and Sodom.

    To think that there is such thing as a better or worse Mushrik/nonbeliever is insane and shows a clear lack of understanding in Sharia all who reject and rebel against Allah are equally evil North Korea isn't harmless these swines give ballistic missiles to Assad and the Houthis who bomb your brothers and sisters in Syria and Yemen and they worship bronze statues you should be ashamed of yourself for uttering the slightest praise or defense from them as should anyone else who does.
    Last edited by JustTime; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by JustTime View Post
    To think that there is such thing as a better or worse Mushrik/nonbeliever is insane and shows a clear lack of understanding in Sharia all who reject and rebel against Allah are equally evil.

    There is the concept of seeking refuge from the strong infidel and the weak believer, and the fact that the guide who assisted in the migration of The Two was a mushrik in whom there was sufficient trust to fulfil the required task.
    Although i think some of these so called "rebel" leaders are puppets who simply fulfil the role of keeping huge arms races and huge defence budgets justified as the bankers who fund all countries with fiat print and digital currency continue to consolidate power before the impending financial collapse.
    Why North Korea wants nuclear weapons

    Long ago has hope perished, as have our men of honor
    M.A



    The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

    Frederick Douglas

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