I just felt like pointing out something , in light of recent events.
Why doesnt the killing of THOUSANDS of muslims in Iraq, Palestine, etc. spark as much rage in Muslims as a stupid comic??
I mean seriously- there has been internation retaliation to this cartoon, Muslims all over the world are protesting against it. AND YET, when greater crimes (including rape and torture, though mainly murder) are being committed against thousands of our brothers and sisters in these countries by the likes of America and Isreal (i.e. there soldiers), we never see such a reaction of this magnitude. Its really saddening.
Dont get me wrong, im not underestimating the seriousness of these cartoons, i just believe that the situation in certain muslim countries is more serious and worthy of reaction than a cartoon.
I just felt like pointing out something , in light of recent events.
Why doesnt the killing of THOUSANDS of muslims in Iraq, Palestine, etc. spark as much rage in Muslims as a stupid comic??
I mean seriously- there has been internation retaliation to this cartoon, Muslims all over the world are protesting against it. AND YET, when greater crimes (including rape and torture, though mainly murder) are being committed against thousands of our brothers and sisters in these countries by the likes of America and Isreal (i.e. there soldiers), we never see such a reaction of this magnitude. Its really saddening.
Dont get me wrong, im not underestimating the seriousness of these cartoons, i just believe that the situation in certain muslim countries is more serious and worthy of reaction than a cartoon.
I agree with you sister on this matter.
We are still slowly strting to unite and starting to come out voicing our opinions.
I think the main hesitation over the boycott not being passed over war and such issues is mainly because the governments are hypocritical and get scared by bigger nations. It is indeed sad.
yeh bro^^, i think you are correct in what you said about the fear... they just dont seem to have the guts to stand up to countries liek america, and i even wonder if some of the governments want to stand up to them. ive even been informed that countries like suadi arabia and otehrs supply america with food and weapons. its really sickening.
even riots
flag burnings
all sorts of protest activities
its always our govts which let us down by not backing us
this is the 1st time the saudi govt has backed the people!
So alhamdolillah do u know that the losses fo danish companies has now reached in the 100 million pounds?
This is slightly different than the thread. I'm not muslim just curious for a muslim perspective. I just wondered on this board researching the muslim cartoons from denmark. I'm really confused about this.
Okay, I understand muslims wouldn't like those cartoons, but how does that justify the rioting, and death threats. I also looked it up on wikipedia(online encyclopedia) and there are literally dozens of cartoons printed in muslim newpapers depicting such things as jews eating babies. Now a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his head, versus a jew eating a baby. It seems there is a double standard going on, as in if someone insults muslims, they storm embassies, but if muslims print a jew eating a baby. Oh well, they're not muslim.
First of all as muslims we have to protect the name of Islam in every way we can. We have not been put in this world to recieve the worldly pleasures as we depict in the west. If we dont show where we stand religiously, do you think those cartoons will stop? rather they wud keep taking advantage of our "sympathy" and "gratitude" by giving them permission to do so.
Secondly, your comment about the jews eating babies has nothing to do with the religious aspects of this subject, rather it is more of a political statment.
Already this shows your ignorance because Islam has nothing to do with suicide bombings. Suicide bombings occur when there is no other way of retaliating to the enemy. This is more of a defenive strategy rather than religious, do dont compare the two.
Each cartoon has a symbolic message inside, this one clearly insults all muslims, not just every muslim but every race. Unlike other religions, we wud like to keep our name free of the west's false propaganda.
Honestly, that is the way it looks. I've never heard of a jew eating babies, I have no idea where that came from. But I see or hear of Muslim suicide bombers weekly, so I understand the symbolism at least of that one.
shame how you can hear of suicide bombers weekly, but turn your ears away from innocent children being blown up for no apparent reason, or people sleeping in the streets because they have no home to go to.
do you need to hear about a jew eating a baby to believe its true?? OPEN YOUR EYES! they do much worse! they even kick out their own ppl out of the cities! *speaking toward israeli supporters*
Please, explain, because I'm honestly trying not to look badly on muslims, but it is very hard, when people are rioting, boycotting, burning embassies over cartoons. It does seem fanatical.
right cuz we are supposed to hold parties and laugh along with you guys. feel all jolly inside, how bout u print up another one and while youre at it why dont we sip on some wine and discuss books... get real!
its enough they practically ruined life for every muslim, now they are digging our graves. whats next?? well they obviously put their imagination to gud use.
Thanks, no disrespect intended.
none taken
Really, I don't see how a cartoon picture equals death threats.
i dont see why the cartoon was printed out in the first place except to insult muslims, if you can answer that then i wud agree with you.
Regards
Last edited by *charisma*; 02-06-2006 at 01:22 AM.
even riots
flag burnings
all sorts of protest activities
its always our govts which let us down by not backing us
this is the 1st time the saudi govt has backed the people!
if there was resistance, i sure never heard of it, or it was just never as wide spread as the resistance is now. its all over the news here in australia. well inshaallah this can lead to greater things
oh my sis cheese i am shocked you didnthear about the protests over the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Palestine!!
They were HUGE - this is nothing compared to them!!
There were million man marches in many countries as well.
The protests lasted a long time and then eventually died down because our governments sat silently (probably hiding under their beds) scared of the US and Isreal but not scared of Allah swt! Astaghfirullah!
First of all, I'm not really convinced there was any rape of thousands. But there are Muslim Americans serving in the American army. Was it any of them doing the so-called raping?
oh ofcoarse not, why wud we want u to believe that
its ok, turn on the news and believe that all muslims are terrorists, do you seriously think the media would want to go ahead and tell people the truth so that they will feel disgusted towards what is really going on??
I suspect whatever story you heard or read had something like "Non-Muslim US Soldiers rape thousands" is that what I am to believe?
i dont think that was the title, and more or less it was a letter i believe from one of the jailed there.
Oh and by the way, I only bring up Michael Jackson because he is a pop singer. I'm not really a fan of his music or anytthing. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of him, but I know of him.
The protests lasted a long time and then eventually died down because our governments sat silently (probably hiding under their beds) scared of the US and Isreal but not scared of Allah swt! Astaghfirullah!
sorry bro akulion, i dont have the best memory and at the time i was pretty busy too with school stuff so i didnt watch much news, i might recall some stuff but not much. i certainly remember the protests that happened right here in australia regarding the iraq war, but they were by australians in general or all backgrounds and religions, not only muslims in specific.
and thanks sis charsima for your help answering these questions.
This is weird that no one will answer my question. Some have said Muslims will defend themselves. Well, what does that mean. Defend could mean anything between, having a discussion to full out war.
I'm just trying to get a feel for the general mindset of the muslim community. I don't know any muslims. I've only met two in my whole life at school. I'm not trying to get in a debate about any heavy issues like the iraq war, or any like that. Just wondering what the generally acceptable response to potraying the prophet in a negative light is.
Thanks. But as no one yet has answered with a straight foward answer, I'm taking that to mean. That alot of rational muslims will endure it as everyone else in the world does, when they are insulted. But the 10% that are more extreme will think it's worth killing over. Sad really, as I'm sure if people are this insulted over cartoons, they will most certainly be insulted regularly, as in every free country in the world, we have to endure things that I consider repugnant daily. But I don't even consider the possiblity of killing someone over it.
My conclusion is if this is the mindset of a segment of muslims, nothing will stop the cultural collision. As the 10% will drag the perception of all Muslims down to the Western cultures.
My feelings on Muslims has gone from no known problems with them in general
Then 911 and intense anger insued
Then I researched the Israeli and palestine conflict, and my opinion of Isreal and palestine dropped. I don't respect the way either side acts in that conflict
Then when Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq, and I researched for any muslim protest to the acts and found none, my opinion dropped further. I watched them cut the heads off, there is nothing holy in that. If you as an individual agree with that, well, we won't go there. When the prisoners in Iraq where humiliated, well, they protested, but not when civilians got there heads cut off? Now, I see Muslims rioting over a cartoon, and again, It's lowering my opinion of Islam.
I wish my country was completely out of the middle east and never interacted again in that area, including Isreal. But, unfortunately, that is not going to happen. I have the feeling both sides have drawn the line in the sand and are just looking for excuses for the situation to boil over. This cartoon incident is just the most recent example.
Thanks. Hope I'm wrong, I don't think the world needs a World War that will kill billions, but if people get this upset over a cartoon, it's bound to happen.
Now, I see Muslims rioting over a cartoon, and again, It's lowering my opinion of Islam.
hi mate, dont feel so let down at the lack of response- it takes time for ppl to read and reply.
Dont judge islam by what you see the muslims doing, and the so called 'muslim nations' doing. the muslims are not perfect and too many of them dont follow the religion properly.
in response to the thing you said about the "Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq"... well, again just because these people are doing this stuff in the name of islam are muslims, does mean that what they are doing is correct, or compatable with islam does it? no it doesnt. in islam, you are not allowed to attack women, children etc... (sorry i dont recall exactly who cant be attacked, if you are interested let me know and i will find a relavent hadith for you) .
if you want to know about the islam, i recommend you judge it based on the quran and the hadith, not what you see people doing these names in the name of islam. that way, you know you are getting the real picture of what islam really is.
and i dont know if i can get you to see how much these cartoons offend muslims, but i can try. consider this:
1. drawing people is haram (prohibited) in islam. it is a sin.
2. drawing the prophet is haram too- how can you assume that you know what he looks like? no one today knows. so these people are just drawing a pic of some arab looking guy, saying this is the prophet (i know that they are not claiming it to be the real image of him, but it is still very offensive)
3. THE PROPHET WAS NOT A TERRORIST.
i just cant get you too see why it is so offensive that he is drawn like this. the images they printed of him are a total lie. he did not walk around with a bomb in his hat, its just disgusting. Muslims are taught to love the prophet more than any other person, even more than their parents, more than themselves. thats how much respect we have for him. i recommend you follow this link if you wish to find out more about the wonderful nature of the prophet:
sorry if my reply doesnt help much. but i would just like to remind you not too judge islam by the present muslims. dont you realise that if there are muslims out there who are sinning and doing haram stuff in the name of islam, they will be punished by Allah (swt)?? you just cant judge islam by its followers, refer back to the quran and sunnah please.
Peace.
p.s. if you read my first post in this thread, you will see that i have posted my opinion about the response of the muslims to the cartoons.
in response to the thing you said about the "Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq"... well, again just because these people are doing this stuff in the name of islam are muslims, does mean that what they are doing is correct, or compatable with islam does it? no it doesnt. in islam, you are not allowed to attack women, children etc... (sorry i dont recall exactly who cant be attacked, if you are interested let me know and i will find a relavent hadith for you) .
My point here was there wasn't even a outcry against such actions in general. So, it was just accepted. Whereas, when the whole abu grave(spelling?) in iraq happened, there was plenty of americans condemning our own governments actions, but the reverse never happens when Muslims do things wrong. That is where the lowering of opinion occurs. I understand that not every muslim is going to cut off peoples heads, but I don't understand why there isn't a immediate condemnation by the overwhelming majority of muslims. Since that doesn't occur, it must mean that muslims in general don't really care about such things, because it wasn't a muslim. That's what strikes me, the lack of condemnation when muslims do bad things from other muslims, but it seems every little thing like the cartoon, peopel will riot. Can you see how the two don't quite equate.
Because believe me when I saw palestinines celebrating the deaths of American Non-Military citizens, and chanting death to america. I read that as death to me. Or when someone burns a flag, that says to me that they hate all in the country that flag represents. And I'm really confused what type of response such actions are thought to have, as when I watched that I really, really, didn't want anything to do with anything islam for sometime.
I really believe Islam needs to get behind a central philosphy, because the argument is always, it's not us it's the radicals. But there is never any condemnation or attempts to stop such things by the "regular" muslims. See how that makes one question the whole of the religion. If a person stands by silently while a crime is commented, then says I didn't do it. Are they any better?
Well, here's how I read the drawing of muslims issue
Okay, your point is that muslims don't believe in the drawing of muslims, especially the prophet, but these drawing were published in non-muslim controlled countries, where similiar forms of bad taste cartoons are produced regularly. Here in the U.S. a supposed artist a few years back had a display of the the cross with **** on it. Now, that offended, millions of U.S. citizens and Millions around the world, but no one burned embassies. I'm sorry but if the standard is that there can be no critism of Islam, or crude depictions, it just won't work in western countries. The whole basis of the most democratic nations is the free expression of ideas, no matter how off-base they may be. As long as they don't promote violence. So, saying that Islam must be an exception to that rule, doesn't work with a system specificlly designed to protect the fringe ideas.
Thus since in any western country, freedom to disparage the pillars of that particular society is essential to the ideology. I can't see how a Religion that doesn't condone any critism will ever be able to function. Catholics get made fun of all the time as child molesters all the time, because a few priest did such things. They don't riot.
I for example will not accept that I can't draw a cartoon of anything I please. Muslims seem to want it to be illegal to do so, because they don't believe it's right. But I don't believe in the things Muslims do. So, why should I be limited in my expression. See, in order to do what they're asking freedom of speech would need to be eliminated. That will not go over well.
So, I guess, my conclusion is Islam isn't compatible within Western Culture. But, for some reason muslims move to countries, that don't mix with there religion, and then demand the laws be changed in dramatic ways.
If you can explain how freedom of speech and expression, can be maintained within a muslim framework. Then it could work, but the whole basis, of the muslim argument is that one can't criticize the prophet, but every other religion gets criticized daily, and learns to endure such things. The pope, which is supposed to be a direct link to God in the Catholic religion is always ridiculed. Jesus, has been depicted in so many bad ways it's beyond count. But those religions don't threaten to kill people over it.
This is slightly different than the thread. I'm not muslim just curious for a muslim perspective. I just wondered on this board researching the muslim cartoons from denmark. I'm really confused about this.
Okay, I understand muslims wouldn't like those cartoons, but how does that justify the rioting, and death threats. I also looked it up on wikipedia(online encyclopedia) and there are literally dozens of cartoons printed in muslim newpapers depicting such things as jews eating babies. Now a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his head, versus a jew eating a baby. It seems there is a double standard going on, as in if someone insults muslims, they storm embassies, but if muslims print a jew eating a baby. Oh well, they're not muslim.
Honestly, that is the way it looks. I've never heard of a jew eating babies, I have no idea where that came from. But I see or hear of Muslim suicide bombers weekly, so I understand the symbolism at least of that one.
Please, explain, because I'm honestly trying not to look badly on muslims, but it is very hard, when people are rioting, boycotting, burning embassies over cartoons. It does seem fanatical.
Thanks, no disrespect intended.
Really, I don't see how a cartoon picture equals death threats.
peace be uopn u...
i respect da fact that ur triying 2 understand bth perspectives, but whilst doing so i think i may need 2 point across the importance of understanding that ISLAM... and MUSLIMS are 2 completeley different thing.
i myself is aginst the threatening as i dnt think that its the brightest thing 2 do by stooping 2 der level... yeah! i guess it is easier said dan done in a situation lyk dis bt u must understand dat these are the actions of muslims. BUT its nt the teachings of Islam! i attended a protest in London aginst dis simply becoz it was a "peacful" protest without any flags being burnt or any threatens being made!
this is nt da 1st tym dat sum1 has insulted our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him) it also actually happened whilst Muhammed (s.a.w) was alive bt da main question is how did he deal with it??? He made du'a (supplication) 4 thier children begging Almighty Allah (God), 2 mke them belivers and guide them into Islam. Our Prophets own neighbour used curse and abuse him bt he still chose 2 be the peacful maker and the riteous one (of chourse) and helped them nd looked out 4 dem regardless of how spikfull they wer.
hopefully u have gt a clearer perspective and understandin of Islam and the way Muslims are taught to act! :thankyou:
This is weird that no one will answer my question.
Perhaps I can be of some assistance.
Some have said Muslims will defend themselves. Well, what does that mean. Defend could mean anything between, having a discussion to full out war.
In the context of this discussion we are speaking of protest and peaceful demonstration. The use of violence in response to such cartoons is abhorrent and an equally foul insult to Islam.
I'm just trying to get a feel for the general mindset of the muslim community. I don't know any muslims. I've only met two in my whole life at school. I'm not trying to get in a debate about any heavy issues like the iraq war, or any like that. Just wondering what the generally acceptable response to potraying the prophet in a negative light is.
The reaction you have witnessed is related to what these caricatures really signify. Muslims feel that there has been an on-going campaign undertaken by many elements within the western media to malign and demonize Islam. Islam and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh has been repeatedly attacked and at a time when we need to reach out and increase our understanding of different minority groups we find that instead misconceptions and slanderous comments are being propagated. When these cartoons were published, the Muslim community in Denmark and other western countries felt that the percieved attack on Islam had now become obvious. The cartoons represented a malicious attempt to malign Islam and incite more hatred towards the Muslim community. This is why the Muslims felt that they needed to voice loud protest and cause the world to realize that we cannot continue to propagate hatred towards others if we intend to promote peace.
I think that many peaceful protests were successful in conveying this message.
Thanks. But as no one yet has answered with a straight foward answer, I'm taking that to mean. That alot of rational muslims will endure it as everyone else in the world does, when they are insulted. But the 10% that are more extreme will think it's worth killing over. Sad really, as I'm sure if people are this insulted over cartoons, they will most certainly be insulted regularly, as in every free country in the world, we have to endure things that I consider repugnant daily. But I don't even consider the possiblity of killing someone over it.
Of course its not worth killing someone over and we have many religious leaders in our community who have condemned the violence that arose in response to this. Yet it is still only natural that a minority group will protest if their religion is unfairly targeted, especially in a time when there is already so much hatred and already so many misconceptions about Islam.
My conclusion is if this is the mindset of a segment of muslims, nothing will stop the cultural collision.
I disagree. Respect, tolerance and education ourselves about eachother can and will stop a confrontation.
Then when Muslim terrorists cut off the heads of NON-MILITARY people in iraq, and I researched for any muslim protest to the acts and found none, my opinion dropped further.
I don't have a problem if you come here to familiarize yourself with the Muslim response to such issues, but please don't draw conclusions before conducting proper research. Thanks.
In support of the question asker, I have to say it is becoming increasingly difficult to find news coverage of muslims condemning the actions of other muslims :unhappy:
maybe not so much online, but I have been totting up the column inches in my local papers and they would have you believe the whole world was behind those protests!
I cannot stress enough the importance of talking to real people about these issues instead of believing the propaganda!
In support of the question asker, I have to say it is becoming increasingly difficult to find news coverage of muslims condemning the actions of other muslims :unhappy:
Please explain me that situation.
In Iraq terrorists often make attack in mosques or near mosques. So many mosques were destroyed, many people were killed during prayers and many Qurans were burned in explosions.
But muslims don't react.
Danish newspaper printed caricatures of Muhammad and we have huge scandal and disturbance.
So tell me if it is allowed to burn Quran, blow mosques and kill praying people?
Why there were no protests agains terrorists blowing up Qurans but there were huge protests when US soldiers destroyed Quran in Guantanamo.
Please tell me.
I think that we have double standarts here.
Please explain me that situation.
In Iraq terrorists often make attack in mosques or near mosques. So many mosques were destroyed, many people were killed during prayers and many Qurans were burned in explosions.
But muslims don't react.
Danish newspaper printed caricatures of Muhammad and we have huge scandal and disturbance.
So tell me if it is allowed to burn Quran, blow mosques and kill praying people?
Why there were no protests agains terrorists blowing up Qurans but there were huge protests when US soldiers destroyed Quran in Guantanamo.
Please tell me.
I think that we have double standarts here.
Muslim scholars have condemned these terrorist acts completely. Please see the links I posted in my first post in this thread. Unfortunately the media does not convety an accurate representation of Muslim responses.
Regards
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
But I don't write about opinions of "wise men". I ask why normal muslims don't make protests agains destroying Quran and mosques by other muslims.
I didn't see any demonstration agains terrorists who blow up Qurans.
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