“They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca” (OP)
Already facing mounting international pressure over the treatment of detainees at its detention camps in Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, the Bush administration lawyers, have stated bluntly that the new law that bans cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody does not apply to people held at the military prison.
Yesterday, in a federal court and in legal filings, Justice Department lawyers ruled that a detainee at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, shouldn’t use legislation drafted by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to challenge treatment that the detainee's lawyers described as "systematic torture", arguing that another portion of that same law, the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, denies all Guantanamo detainees access to U.S. courts.
Then comes another episode in the series of U.S scandals involving the treatment of detainees held as part of the U.S. President, George W. Bush so called war on terror.
According to recently uncovered Pentagon documents, a British national, who was captured in Afghanistan in 2001 and later transferred to Guantanamo prison, described how police had sex in front of him, tried to feed him pork and misled him into praying toward America instead of Mecca, Pentagon documents show.
Feroz Ali Abbasi, who admitted training as a militant in Afghanistan yet denied allegations that he’s a member of Osama Bin Laden’s Al Qaeda network, tried to change his status from "enemy combatant" to prisoner of war in accordance with the Geneva Convention.
The British government negotiated his release in January 2005, and managed to free him a day later, saying the only information against him was “confidential intelligence”. But Abbasi was denied the right to even see that classified evidence during his hearing.
"Mr Abassi, your conduct is unacceptable and this is your absolute final warning. I do not care about International Law. I do not want to hear the words International Law again. We are not concerned about International Law," the colonel insisted before having Abassi removed.
Abassi’s testimony is included in the documents released to The Associated Press.
In the documents, Abbasi described how two military police officers had sex near him on two separate occasions; once, while they believed him to be asleep, he said, and another "while he was praying," The Age reported.
Abbasi also stated that one military police officer "knowingly and willfully misdirected" him to pray toward the north - the direction of the United States - instead of east toward Mecca, Islam's holy city.
Another officer, said Abbasi's statement to the tribunal, tried to feed the detainee "a hot plate of pork" - food forbidden by Islam.
Also yesterday, Fawzi Al Odah, a Kuwaiti national held at Guantanamo Bay described to the BBC in a rare interview how U.S. guards force-fed hunger strikers, which he said amounts to torture.
The strapped hunger strikers to a chair and force-fed them through a tube three times a day, said Al Odah, who has been held at the base since 2002, and was among the 84 Guantanamo detainees who went on hunger strike in December.
The BBC Today programme's Jon Manel submitted questions for Mr Odah to his lawyer, Tom Wilner, who has the permission to visit the camp.
Al Odah told the BBC that he felt like an old man despite being only 29.
"If anything bad happens to the United States anywhere in the world, they immediately react to us and treat us badly, like animals," he said.
"I'm always tired. I have pain in my kidneys. I have trouble breathing. I have pain in my heart and am short of breath. I have trouble urinating and having bowel movements.
"Death in this situation is better than being alive and staying here without hope," Mr Odah added.
The U.S. has said it is holding Mr Odah because he is a dangerous "enemy combatant". He dismissed the general allegations, branding them as "rubbish" and "absolutely untrue", but he refuses to elaborate, saying he’s waiting to discuss the accusations against at a court hearing.
The UN Human Rights Commission has recently stated that force-feeding at Guantanamo as a form of torture, a charge the U.S. strongly rejects.
Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court acknowledged the jurisdiction of federal courts over the detainees – no longer was Guantanamo a lawless land subject only to the President’s will. But Congress dimmed that light: the Graham-Levin-Kyl amendment passed last December so restricts the detainees’ access to federal courts as to be almost meaningless.
There is still time for the Administration to do the right thing at Guantanamo, Human Rights Watch says on its website- “Bush's admin should release detainees it has no legal authority to hold; it should provide courts-martial or criminal trials to detainees believed to have committed crimes; and it should allow the detainees to speak to outsiders who could tell their stories to the world,” the HRW says.
For such an allegedly peaceful religion there’s seems to be a lot of violent words coming from muslims!
?? it is said islam is a peacful religon not a weak one...
If someone will strike at us we have every right to strike back...
U hear violent words? oppressed people will grow angry when they are oppressed in front of the whole world to see and nothing is done...
Quite confusing is your remark....
So for others to be violent seems not to faze you for others to abuse it matters not...but for one brother to rage at another brothers torture seems violent...
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
?? it is said islam is a peacful religon not a weak one...
If someone will strike at us we have every right to strike back...
U hear violent words? oppressed people will grow angry when they are oppressed in front of the whole world to see and nothing is done...
Quite confusing is your remark....
So for others to be violent seems not to faze you for others to abuse it matters not...but for one brother to rage at another brothers torture seems violent...
Truly amazing...
I'm not too concerned about what you are saying. My question is, 'What is with your Avitar ?" Is that you ? WOW !!!
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
They can flush the Koran, they can have sex in front of others, they can make Muslims pray toward USA, - I thinks all of that being taught in American churches.
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
They can flush the Koran, they can have sex in front of others, they can make Muslims pray toward USA, - I thinks all of that being taught in American churches.
Well I really doubt it. We should not assume things that we do not know about.
Peace.
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
format_quote Originally Posted by Cheb
Well I really doubt it. We should not assume things that we do not know about.
Peace.
It was a fact that a koran had been put into a toilet cnn themselves are the ones who picked up on this and eye-witness reports by innocents who have returned from guntanamo have reported these and worse acts!
I agree nothing should be beleived without proof....
However is not the reports by US officals so many medical experts and SO MANY eye witness reports not enough to know that forget islamic but basic human rights are being crushed!?? they are treating muslims like ANIMALS!
we shud not assume things?...i say we should not ignore things brother....
It may make us sleep easier at night but our brothers and sisters still suffer where they are...
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
It was a fact that a koran had been put into a toilet cnn themselves are the ones who picked up on this and eye-witness reports by innocents who have returned from guntanamo have reported these and worse acts!
I agree nothing should be beleived without proof....
However is not the reports by US officals so many medical experts and SO MANY eye witness reports not enough to know that forget islamic but basic human rights are being crushed!?? they are treating muslims like ANIMALS!
we shud not assume things?...i say we should not ignore things brother....
It may make us sleep easier at night but our brothers and sisters still suffer where they are...
We need unity not doubt...
true say brother
oh allah help us or our brothers held in guantanamo bay!
salaam
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
It was a fact that a koran had been put into a toilet cnn themselves are the ones who picked up on this and eye-witness reports by innocents who have returned from guntanamo have reported these and worse acts!
I agree nothing should be beleived without proof....
However is not the reports by US officals so many medical experts and SO MANY eye witness reports not enough to know that forget islamic but basic human rights are being crushed!?? they are treating muslims like ANIMALS!
we shud not assume things?...i say we should not ignore things brother....
It may make us sleep easier at night but our brothers and sisters still suffer where they are...
We need unity not doubt...
I agree with you brother but you misunderstood me. I was actually talking about the part where he was talking about what they teach in church, not the Quran part.
But ya we need unity in Islam if we are ever to get out of this slump.
Peace.
Re: "They Forced Me To Pray Towards USA Not Makkah"
format_quote Originally Posted by Cheb
I agree with you brother but you misunderstood me. I was actually talking about the part where he was talking about what they teach in church, not the Quran part.
But ya we need unity in Islam if we are ever to get out of this slump.
Peace.
Re: “They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca”
I'm curious if anyone responding to this thread has a military background, or have researched the various prisoner treatments during wartime? The prisoner treatment at Guantanamo is nothing new or innovative. I certainly don't think that it is enough to create hatred towards the West.
Re: “They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca”
format_quote Originally Posted by renak
I'm curious if anyone responding to this thread has a military background, or have researched the various prisoner treatments during wartime? The prisoner treatment at Guantanamo is nothing new or innovative. I certainly don't think that it is enough to create hatred towards the West.
If they were guilty i would still be upset at the way they are treated...the question is guilty of what...and second what war??
A war is when two countries attack eachother...afgan was not a war neither is iraq....
no one has attacked the US...
9/11 was a terrorist attack commited by neither the leaders of iraq or afganistan...
from northen ireland the ira bombed the UK..
Why would the UK start a war with northen ireland?
Treatment of war prisoners is disturbing either way however this is far worse as there is no war and these people are not in guntanamo for any crime they are there to state an example to send a message....
Re: “They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca”
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
If they were guilty i would still be upset at the way they are treated...the question is guilty of what...and second what war??
A war is when two countries attack eachother...afgan was not a war neither is iraq....
no one has attacked the US...
Well someone did. I assume you do not think it was the American government, but reassure me that you don't.
9/11 was a terrorist attack commited by neither the leaders of iraq or afganistan...
from northen ireland the ira bombed the UK..
Why would the UK start a war with northen ireland?
The IRA is not supported by the government of Northern Ireland. If they were supported, funded, protected, by the government of the Republic of Ireland, Britain would, I think, have reason to be upset. There is an Islamic precedent. The Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah was broken by fighting between the Banu Bakr and the Banu Khuza’ah. The Banu Bakr had a treaty with the Quraysh and the B. Khuza'ah with the Muslims. The B. Bakr attacked the B. Khuza'ah in retaliation for some earlier deaths. And so the Muslims went to war with the Quraysh. Was this wrong?
Treatment of war prisoners is disturbing either way however this is far worse as there is no war and these people are not in guntanamo for any crime they are there to state an example to send a message....
Well that would be no bad thing if it did send a message. But I doubt it. These people are not prisoners of war or they would be treated better. They are not there for fighting with the government of Afghanistan but with the Taleban and al-Qaeda.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Re: “They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca”
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well someone did. I assume you do not think it was the American government, but reassure me that you don't.
The IRA is not supported by the government of Northern Ireland. If they were supported, funded, protected, by the government of the Republic of Ireland, Britain would, I think, have reason to be upset. There is an Islamic precedent. The Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah was broken by fighting between the Banu Bakr and the Banu Khuza’ah. The Banu Bakr had a treaty with the Quraysh and the B. Khuza'ah with the Muslims. The B. Bakr attacked the B. Khuza'ah in retaliation for some earlier deaths. And so the Muslims went to war with the Quraysh. Was this wrong?.
Was it wrong? sorry i wasnt there to judge that nor am i here to judge that...
IRA were not supported by the goverment...
however your saying osama was supported by the taliban so for that they reason to attack afganistan...there was still no war my friend... the afganstani goverment never attacked the USA you can carry on with the osama was backed by the taliban so it makes sense... but it only makes sense to you... one man is no reason to attack a country!
You call that a war? it was a massacre.. what resistence? on whos borders did the taliban attack?
So easy is it to call it a war for terrorisem and kill thousands...i call it pathetic..
the afganistani massacre was but a excuse to gain control of afgan land and oil...
So what was the iraq war as you call it for? what war? when did iraq attack USA??
U seem to explain what you want and ignore the rest? so afgan was a WAR based on one man and iraq was a WAR based on what??
What is your point here? that these are wars? against who? terrorist states??
as i said iraq never attacked USA but its a war...so israel has never attacked USA but its known also as a terrorist state its also backed by there goverment yet i see no WAR?
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well that would be no bad thing if it did send a message. But I doubt it. These people are not prisoners of war or they would be treated better. They are not there for fighting with the government of Afghanistan but with the Taleban and al-Qaeda.
The message it sends is let us do what we want or this is how your life will become...Nice message...
Treated better...? very humane of you...Have you ever suffered pain? ever been humiliated?
Theres a diffrence here i would never want to see any american suffer that much as much as i dont want to see my brothers and sisters suffering...
Even if the american was a prisoner of war it is within our religon to show mercy to show respect...
There are laws within the quran about war and to show mercy and honour on the battlefield is strongest...
to keep someone in that state is sick and beyond understanding!?
how you can find anywhere in your heart to justfiy this is beyond me...
Re: “They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca”
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
The IRA is not supported by the government of Northern Ireland. If they were supported, funded, protected, by the government of the Republic of Ireland, Britain would, I think, have reason to be upset. There is an Islamic precedent. The Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah was broken by fighting between the Banu Bakr and the Banu Khuza’ah. The Banu Bakr had a treaty with the Quraysh and the B. Khuza'ah with the Muslims. The B. Bakr attacked the B. Khuza'ah in retaliation for some earlier deaths. And so the Muslims went to war with the Quraysh. Was this wrong?.
Was it wrong? sorry i wasnt there to judge that nor am i here to judge that...
IRA were not supported by the goverment...
Why not? You seem to be doing a lot of judging. On what basis do you judge America's actions?
It is a simple question of Islamic law - if the Allies of the Quyrash attack the Allies of the Muslims, is that a valid casus belli? It is not as direct as in this case when the Allies of the Taleban actually attacked America, and not just once, and not just killing one man, not an Ally.
however your saying osama was supported by the taliban so for that they reason to attack afganistan...there was still no war my friend... the afganstani goverment never attacked the USA you can carry on with the osama was backed by the taliban so it makes sense... but it only makes sense to you... one man is no reason to attack a country!
And yet this is what happened with the Meccans. Osama was not only supported by the Taleban, who were not the official recognised government of Afghanistan, but protected by them as well. It made sense to Muhammed to attack Mecca and rip up the Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah when the Quraysh's allies attacked his allies. Do you know the phrase what is good for the goose is good for the gander? Why the double standard?
You call that a war? it was a massacre.. what resistence? on whos borders did the taliban attack?
Well what I call it is neither hee nor there but the US government does not call it a war or, as I said, they would be POWs and treated better.
A massacre? Well yes, I guess it was.
So easy is it to call it a war for terrorisem and kill thousands...i call it pathetic..
If someone attacks you, you sort of have to attack back. The US put up with a lot from Osama Bin Laden. He thought that meant the US was weak. Well there's a mistake he will not make twice. And assuming that Osama's messages mean what they seem to mean (please make peace with me, and, later when that failed, if you don't make peace with me I'll huff and I'll puff and blow your house down) presumably OBL is running scared.
the afganistani massacre was but a excuse to gain control of afgan land and oil...
What oil? Afghanistan is not worth it. No one thinks so. The US is paying half the government budget. It is a dump. A beautiful dump, but the entire economy is worth about nothing.
So what was the iraq war as you call it for? what war? when did iraq attack USA??
Well never as far as I can see. Always thought that was a bad idea. But at least the sanctions are gone.
U seem to explain what you want and ignore the rest? so afgan was a WAR based on one man and iraq was a WAR based on what??
Afghanistan was more than one man. Iraq seems to be a war based on a desire to finish the job and get on with it. But I don't know for sure.
The message it sends is let us do what we want or this is how your life will become...Nice message...
Well it ain't pretty but we are playing with the Big Boys now. The US did not start this. The US does not play as dirty as their enemies. But bad things need to happen to bad people.
Treated better...? very humane of you...Have you ever suffered pain? ever been humiliated?
It is unfortunate that they are being held as illegal combatants and it is a pity you do not see what I mean, but the fact remains if they were POWs they would be much better off.
Theres a diffrence here i would never want to see any american suffer that much as much as i dont want to see my brothers and sisters suffering...
Which is big of you. Not a feeling shared by many people in the Third World I have notice.
Even if the american was a prisoner of war it is within our religon to show mercy to show respect...
There are laws within the quran about war and to show mercy and honour on the battlefield is strongest...
Explain that one to me as it applies to women. It is within Western culture to show mercy and honor as well. Sometimes the West does. But then it is also within Muslim culture to kidnap peace workers and torture them and then execute them. Sometimes we do not live up to the best of our traditions. Neither your brothers, nor the Americans.
to keep someone in that state is sick and beyond understanding!?
how you can find anywhere in your heart to justfiy this is beyond me...
I am not justifying it. I just don't think it is the biggest injustice in the world at the moment.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Quote
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks