Video claims to show U.S. pilot dragged, on fire
U.S. military says 2 died in helicopter crash, but cannot confirm Iraq video
NBC NEWS EXCLUSIVE
Updated: 1:14 p.m. ET April 5, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A video posted on the Internet Wednesday in the name of an extremist group claimed to show Iraqi insurgents dragging the burning body of a U.S. pilot on the ground after the crash of an Apache helicopter.
Parts of the video were blurry, and the face of the man being dragged was not shown. His clothes were so tattered it was impossible to tell if he was wearing an American military uniform, but he appeared to be wearing military fatigues.
The U.S. military condemned the posting and said that although reports of a Web site video “suggest that terrorists removed part of a body from the crash site, the authenticity of the video cannot be confirmed.”
“We are outraged that anyone would create and publish such a despicable video for public exposure,” U.S. military spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Withington said.
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said he had no additional information on the video.
The video, posted by a group calling itself the Shura Council of Mujahedeen, claimed that its military wing had shot down the craft, which the U.S. military said went down Saturday.
According to statements on Islamist Web sites, the Mujahedeen Shura Council was organized in January to consolidate al-Qaida in Iraq and other insurgent groups. The move was seen as an effort by insurgents to lower the profile of al-Qaida leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian, whose mass attacks against Shiite civilians have tarnished the image of the insurgents among many Iraqis.
Inconclusive hints
The video was blurry but the helicopter could be seen clearly. It showed the outlines of the craft’s destroyed blades and blood on various jagged pieces of wreckage spread over a field. However, it was not possible to see if the helicopter had U.S. markings.
The video also clearly showed the bloodied, burning body of a man being dragged by several other men through a field. Before the body was moved, the camera zoomed in on what appeared to be his waistline, which showed a scrap of underwear with the brand name “Hanes” on it. The man also appeared to be wearing some type of camouflage fatigues.
In its statement, the U.S. military said it confirmed the two pilots had died, and it had recovered “all available remains found on the scene, given the catastrophic nature of the crash.”
The AH-64D Apache Longbow crashed about 5:30 p.m. Saturday due to possible hostile fire west of Youssifiyah while conducting a combat air patrol, the military said. Youssifiyah is about 10 miles southwest of Baghdad.
About 24 hours later, the military said the pilots were “presumed dead” and that recovery efforts were under way, indicating they had not fully secured the site or retrieved the bodies.
Youssifiyah is located in the “triangle of death,” a religiously mixed area notorious for attacks by Sunni extremists against Shiites traveling between Baghdad and religious shrines south of the capital.
The Albany (N.Y.) Times Union reported that Capt. Timothy Moshier, 25, of Bethlehem, N.Y., was killed Saturday when the Apache helicopter he was piloting crashed about the same time and place southwest of Baghdad. His survivors include his wife, Katherine, and their 10-month-old daughter, Natalie, the newspaper said.
Why do people in the Middle East like to "play around" with corpses ? I never see this happen anywhere else. And there was an uproar over Abu Ghraib ? Imagine what would be said if the U.S. Army drug a few Iraqis around behind a Hummer. 'Turn-about's fair play'.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
Still didn't answer my question. This only seems to happen 'over there'. Abu Ghraib looks like a day at the spa compared to stuff like this and the beheadings.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
At least 500,000 children died due to the wicked U.S. and western embargo on Iraq. Your country invaded a part of the Muslims lands based on lies (it would be unacceptable even if based on truths to invade another country.)
It is only the U.S. who has ever burnt people with nuclear weapons. Nobody can surpass you Americans and westerners in wickedness, man, don't try.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
R%egarding this kind of matters, please read the following. I think the writer makes good points:
My complaint is to the fellow Muslims and the Muslim organizations that jump obediently to apologize on my behalf and on behalf of my beloved Deen – Islam. I am hurt by the actions of those who make it their job to define Islam according to the paradigms of the West. I want to tell them:
§ We do not have to comment or express opinion on every event in the world involving Muslims just as no Christians or Jews are expected to do so;
§ Even if a wrong is actually committed by a Muslim in another part of the world, we do not need to condemn it or apologize for it just as no Jew, Christian, Sikh or Hindu is expected to apologize, condemn or comment on the crimes of other Jews, Christians, Sikhs or Hindus.
§ For all those who expect you to do so, you should politely ask them first to set an example by apologizing, condemning and actively working to stop the crimes perpetrated by their own communities.
§ As long as we remain defensive, we will be rubbed more and more into the dirt. We must go on the offensive and start holding other faith communities answerable for the crimes committed by their communities. They must remove and be ashamed of their huge logs before asking us to apologize for our little specks.
§ If our Western friends do not like an Islamic teaching, we must not try to twist our tongues to make it palatable to them. We must educate them by providing proper context and perspective instead of twisting or denying the said teaching. We must remember:
"Never will the Jews or the Christians be pleased with you until you fully adopt their paradigms. Say: Surely Allaah's guidance (Islam) is the only guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no protector from Allaah, nor any helper." Qur'an: Al-Baqarah 2:120
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
American desecrated Taliban Mujahideen bodies. Why do Americans desecrate bodies? See how stupid that sounds just because few american terriosts burned Taliban Mujahideens bodies i can accuse the whole american people of doing the same. But i would not do that because its just common sense that not all people are the same. Every where there are few bad apples. Except American Military where almost everyone is.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
Taliban Mujahideen
That is an oxymoron, isn't it? I thought that the Talibs arose as a reaction to the chaotic power scheming violent tribalism of the Muj warlords in the early 90's.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
format_quote Originally Posted by Knut Hamsun
That is an oxymoron, isn't it? I thought that the Talibs arose as a reaction to the chaotic power scheming violent tribalism of the Muj warlords in the early 90's.
Mujahideen more or less means warrior. Its from the root Jihad (to strive, struggle), so Mujahid is one who strives or struggles and the bound morpheme 'een' is plural.
Of course the word also refers to the Afghani group you mentioned.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
format_quote Originally Posted by renak
I don't think Knutt was implying that this would be an Islamic practice; instead, a cultural practice in the Middle East.
It's not cultural either.
Diverdown999 is just being ignorant and bigoted. Some people enjoy feeling superior to others and feeling that he and his race are superior to those of Middle East origin gives him this warm tingly feeling inside.
The truth is, what was done to the corpse is revolting, disgusting and disturbing. It suggest the ones who commited the action had 'dehumanised' their enemy to the point that they felt their corpse was not one that deserved the respect a human corpse would get.
Why?
It happens all the time in warfare. On both sides. Especially when the force is a more powerful aggressor, people tend to dehumanise the soldiers they are fighting.
Diverdown999 belives that the atrocities of Abu Ghraib are not as bad as this (although this is a debatable philosophical question - is it worse to inflict desecration to a dead corpse or inflicting suffering and torture to a living being?) however he misses the point that such morally offensive things have happened for the same reason - dehumanisation.
I do not believe its neccessary to prove to Diverdown999 that such disgusting things have been performed not only by those from the 'Middle East' but by the whole of humanity at one point (whether the Slave Trade or Holocaust, they are present throughout history).
Personally I feel this is a dead topic and not one which deserves 'discussion' and so should be closed by an Admin.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
Mujahideen more or less means warrior. Its from the root Jihad (to strive, struggle), so Mujahid is one who strives or struggles and the bound morpheme 'een' is plural.
Of course the word also refers to the Afghani group you mentioned.
Thank you for the response, azim. So, a Muj..(capital "M") is the specific group, and yes, muj... (lower case "m") is a general term. That is what I thought. So it should have read, Taliban mujahideen?
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
Azim:
I do not believe its neccessary to prove to Diverdown999 that such disgusting things have been performed not only by those from the 'Middle East' but by the whole of humanity at one point (whether the Slave Trade or Holocaust, they are present throughout history).
I agree Azim. This thread is stupid. If diverdown 666 knew anything about the history of warfare he would not have posted such a retarded question.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
format_quote Originally Posted by Knut Hamsun
Thank you for the response, azim. So, a Muj..(capital "M") is the specific group, and yes, muj... (lower case "m") is a general term. That is what I thought. So it should have read, Taliban mujahideen?
Yep, that's exactly it. The upper/lower case is a good way of putting it.
Re: Why Do Middle Easterners Like To Desecrate Corpses ?
format_quote Originally Posted by Knut Hamsun
hamzaa:
And you live in london? Yeah, I always gloat when young Iraqi men are killed and burnt. You sound like a real humanitarian!
Peace, hook...line.....you get the idea...
You can gloat till the cows come home, doesn't bother me. Make no mistake, desecration of bodies is something which I abhor, irrespective whom the combatants are. Please, stop it with the compliments.......
"Muslims cannot be defeated by others. We Muslims are not defeated by our enemies, but instead, we are defeated by our own selves."
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