Brussels Muslim teachers fired over Hijab

format_quote Originally Posted by sameer

I agree that some women in the west have risen to extradinary heights in terms of their acheivements.... but can u tell me that the majority of women fall into this category? and also y every beer, cigarette, magazine, sport, car avertisment have to use women to lure buyers?

I do not know if the majority do. I know of a lot of women who work and do well in their careers. The point though is they can. If they do not want to (like two of my cousins who retired recently to be full time Mothers) they can do that too. Isn't that something? I guess because it works.

also there are no "Islamic" country in the world today...jsut countries that have a lot of muslims living there. None of these countries are run acccording to coorect islamic law and guidelines according the sunnah and Quran.

True.

If women are kept down in these countries, it is because of cutural practices and not islam. In terms of women being elected as prime minister...in an ideal muslim world....the muslims wont be run by a prime minister but by an Ameer which is male. There can be ameeras (female leaders among women) but the ultimate leader would be a male, again this leader would be selected by the guidlines set by the rasool (saw)
Maybe the educated muslims here can correct me if i am wrong? Or maybe explain it better than me cause i am not good at this.?

So what you are saying is that in so far as they are kept down more than is Islamically acceptable it is not Islamic? I understand women cannot be Amir although I often wonder about how sound that is. Not my problem at any rate.

You spoke about pre1900s authors writers etc....what kind of books do u speak of? there are many islamic scholars that were muslim women
eg. Ayesha(r) the wife of the prophet (saw) she had known the most hadith and men respected her and would come to her for judgements and advice on various issues.

I admit that. Although in fairness they only did that because she knew Muhammed - she was a widow - not because of her own qualities. There were Muslim women teachers. Ibn Tammiya had more than one. But they are not frequent and they seem to become less so with time. Any writers. There are many many great Arab poets. How many great women Arab poets are there?

U or no muslim man sould cry down women in islam ...after all the first person to accept islam was a woman - khadijah (r).

The important word there is "should". Can we agree that they do?

..tell me what was the status of western women pre 1900s? where they allowed the rite of inheritance?

Yes.

alimony? divorce?

Depends where they were. Divorce was usually hard although traditionally in the West legal separation was allowed. Men had to support their wives even after such a separation.

the right to property? the right to control her own estate? etc

There was a period in Britain from the late eighteenth century or so until the 1882 Married Women's Property Act where women did not control their property, although they did own it, once they were married. But outside Britain that did not apply. Medieval women are notable for their importance in the economy and their property rights.

Islam has givin women these rights since 1400 years ago....the west only gave them this right 100 yrs ago....oh yeah..and the right to vote and opinion? check when westerm women got this right.

Well yes and no. When did Pakistani women get the right to vote?

And it is interesting, don't you think, that from Aisha to European colonialism there are so few prominent Muslim women in the Muslim world. Why do you think that is?

format_quote Originally Posted by nennar

the women of the west in the 1900s wherent allowed to do anything! there place was in the home and did they try to do something, were they called names and looked at.....women where not considret intelligent.... hmmm i some time wunder....

This is absurd. I don't want to be rude, but do you know anything about Western history at all?

These are the dates for the founding of Women's Colleges in the United States,

1770s

* Salem College - founded in 1772 as the first all-female school in the United States, a female academy in 1866, and a women's college in 1890

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19th century
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1830s

* LaGrange College - founded in 1831 as a female academy, it became LaGrange Female College in 1851, and coeducational in 1953
* Stephens College - founded in 1833 as the Columbia Female Academy, it became a college in 1856 (The Columbia Female Baptist Academy), and was renamed Stephens Female College at a later date
* Wheaton College, Massachusetts - founded in 1834 as a female seminary, Wheaton became a college in 1912 and coeducational in 1987
* Wesleyan College - originally Georgia Female College, it was first chartered in 1836, but did not open its doors to students until 1839
* Mount Holyoke College - originally founded as Mount Holyoke Female Seminary in 1837, it became Mount Holyoke Seminary and College in 1888 and Mount Holyoke College in 1893
* Judson College (Alabama) - originally founded in 1838 as the Judson Female Institute, it became Judson College in 1903

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1840s

* Saint Mary-of-the-Woods College - founded in 1840
* Synodical College - founded in 1842 as the Fulton Female Academy
* Hollins College - originally established in 1842 as Valley Union Seminary (coeducational), it became a school for women in 1852, and was renamed Hollins Institute in 1855, Hollins College in 1911, and Hollins University in 1998
* Mary Baldwin College - originally founded in 1842 as the Augusta Female Seminary
* Saint Mary's College (Indiana) - founded by the Sisters of the Holy Cross in 1844
* MacMurray College - founded in 1846 as the Illinois Conference Female Academy, in 1851, Illinois Female College in 1863 and MacMurray College in 1930 (it is now coeducational)
* Midway College - originally founded in 1847 as the Kentucky Female Orphan School
* Moore College of Art and Design - originally founded in 1848 as Philadelphia School of Design for Women
* Chowan University - founded in 1848 as Chowan Baptist Female Institute
* The Oread Institute - founded in 1849, it is now closed
* Tift College - founded in 1849 as the Forsyth Female Collegiate Institute

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1850s

* Mills College - originally founded as the Young Ladies Seminary in 1852, it became Mills Seminary in 1866, and Mills College in 1885
* Ohio Wesleyan Female College - originally founded in 1853, it merged with Ohio Wesleyan University in 1877
* Andrew College - founded in 1854 as Andrew Female College
* Elmira College - founded in 1855
* Western College for Women - founded in 1855 as Western Female Seminary
* Peace College - founded in 1857 as the Peace Institute

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1860s

* Vassar College - founded in 1861, it declined an offer to merge with Yale University and became coeducational in 1969
* Cedar Crest College - founded in 1867
* Wells College - founded in 1868, it became coeducational in 2005
* Chatham College - founded in 1869 as the Pennsylvania Female College, it became the Pennsylvania College for Women in 1890, and Chatham College in 1955
* Wilson College - founded in 1869

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1870s

* Wellesley College - originally founded in 1870 as the Wellesley Female Seminary, it was renamed Wellesley College in 1873 and opened its doors to students in 1875
* Ursuline College - founded in 1871
* Smith College - founded in 1871
* Mount Mary College - originally founded as St. Mary's Institute in 1872, it became St. Mary's College in 1913, and Mount Mary College in 1929
* Bennett College - originally founded in 1873 as a coeducational school, it became a women's college in 1926
* College of Notre Dame of Maryland - founded in 1873
* Blue Mountain College - founded in 1873 as the Blue Mountain Female Institute
* Brenau University - founded as the Georgia Baptist Female Seminary in 1878, it became Brenau College in 1900, and Brenau University in 1992
* Radcliffe College - originally created in 1879 as the Harvard Annex, it was chartered as Radcliffe College by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 1894; Radcliffe is now a part of Harvard University

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1880s

* Spelman College - originally founded in 1881 and called the Atlanta Baptist Female Seminary, it was renamed Spelman Seminary in 1884 and Spelman College in 1924
* Bryn Mawr College - founded in 1885
* Goucher College - founded in 1885 as The Women's College of Baltimore and was was renamed Goucher College in 1910
* H. Sophie Newcomb Memorial College - founded in 1886
* Converse College - founded in 1889
* Agnes Scott College - founded in 1889 as the Decatur Female Seminary, it became the Agnes Scott Institute in 1890, and Agnes Scott College in 1906
* Barnard College - founded in 1889

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1890s

* Meredith College - originally founded in 1891 as the Baptist Female University, it became the Baptist University for Women, in 1891, and Meredith College in 1909
* Randolph-Macon Woman's College - founded in 1891, doors opened 1893
* Simmons College - founded in 1899
* College of Saint Elizabeth - founded in 1899, it became the Mary Baldwin Seminary in 1895, and the Mary Baldwin College in 1923

And this is a list of historical female colleges in the United Kingdom

England

* Bedford College, University of London, London (1849, became co-ed in 1965)
* Girton College, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1869, became co-ed in 1979)
* Lady Margaret Hall, University of Oxford, Oxford (1879, became co-ed in 1979)
* Lucy Cavendish College, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1965)
* New Hall, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1954)
* Newnham College, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1871)
* Royal Holloway, University of London, London (1879, became co-ed in 1965)
* Somerville College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1879, became co-ed in 1994)
* St Anne's College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1879, became co-ed in 1979)
* St Hilda's College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1893, became co-ed in 2006)
* St Hugh's College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1886, became co-ed in 1986)

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Scotland

* Edinburgh School of Medicine for Women, Edinburgh (operated 1886-1898)

If they thought women were so stupid why did they open so many university colleges for them?

format_quote Originally Posted by sameer

when did pakistan become a country? in the 20th century..so how can u compare pakistan to the west which is independant for centuries.

Easily. Pakistan is heir to 1400 years of Muslim history and even more Indian history. It is the site of one of the first civilisations. What does its date of independence matter?

even men votes dont matter in pakistan beacuse they are run by a military goverment. Wasnt there a woman prime minister in pakistan? yes there was...also Bangladesh - which is 100% muslim.

As I said - in the feudal parts of the Muslim world women get elected because they are the daughter of Someone, the widow of Someone. Do they get elected in their own right? Ruth Bader Ginsburg was not the daughter or widow of Someone. She got there on her own. See the difference?

Sri Lanka's Chandrika Kumaratunga, Bangladesh' Khaleda Zia and Hasina Wajed, Burma's Aung San Suu Kyi, Indonesia's Megawati Sukarnoputri or Japan's Takako Doi.

It is not a Muslim problem

Chandrika Bandaranaike (born June 29, 1945) was the 5th President of Sri Lanka and 4th Executive President of Sri Lanka (November 12, 1994 - November 19, 2005). She is the leader of the Sri Lanka Freedom Party.

Her father, Solomon Bandaranaike, was a government Minister at the time of her birth and later became Prime Minister - he was assassinated in 1959 when Chandrika was fourteen. After his death, his wife (Chandrika's mother) Sirimavo Bandaranaike, became the world's first female Prime Minister in 1960

Khaleda Zia (Bangla: খালেদা জিয়া) (born 15 August 1945) is the Prime Minister of Bangladesh. She was Prime Minister from 1991 to 1996, the first woman in the country's history to hold that position, and then again from 2001 to the present. She is the widow of assassinated president Ziaur Rahman, and leads his old party, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party.

Sheikh Hasina Wajed (Bangla: শেখ হাসিনা ওয়াজেদ) (born September 28, 1947) was the Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996 to 2001. She has been the President of the Awami League, a major political party in Bangladesh, since 1981. She is the eldest of five children of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the nationalist leader and first president of Bangladesh.

Aung San Suu Kyi, the daughter of General Aung San, was born on the 19 June 1945. Aung San, Suu Kyi's father, who negotiated Burma's independence from the United Kingdom in 1947, was assassinated by rivals in the same year.

Diah Permata Megawati Setiawati Soekarnoputri (born January 23, 1947), was President of Indonesia from July 2001 to October 20, 2004. She was the country's first female President.

Megawati was born in Yogyakarta, the second child and eldest daughter of Sukarno, then the president of Indonesia, which had declared its independence from the Netherlands in 1945. Her mother Fatmawati was one of Sukarno's nine wives. Megawati grew up in luxury in her father's Merdeka Palace.

Only one of those got into power because of who she was as opposed to who her Father or Husband was.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sis786

Yeah im SURE HeiGou she was single she would def be yours!

Hey Muhammed married an older richer woman who was sort of a CEO in her time. Can't be all bad.

Have u read My Feudal Lord!

No but I have ordered it now so I'll get back to you. The description sounded bad enough. Poor woman. Durrani means she a Pashtun no?

format_quote Originally Posted by nennar

yah i can see that you have found some women , and their work, i am sure is apprisiated, but ... when i say but... its not the case anymore.... more and more of your women dont have and education..... and these women you wrote about.... perhaps its 200 at the most, while there are over 100 million women now and most of them are underpaid, and have to take crappy work

In my previous job my manager was a woman. Her manager was a woman. So was her's. The next two up were men and then the top boss was a woman. This organisation had a turn over of over 120 million pounds a year.

Not all women have underpaid jobs.

format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY

you need to understand that the western view of an ''important'' woman ''respected'' in her society and the islamic perspective are not the same

Well that is obvious.

the west might view the traditional family based structure as an excuse to hold women back

but Islam definitly doesn't view it that way

Well no. What you mean is that the West may view of the traditional family structure as holding women back, but Muslims do not see it that way.

it's the muslim sister who's been given a job far more important than one of a prime minister or a CEO of a multinational company so please don't compare something as noble as motherhood to these inferior positions

Hmm, interesting that when women get the chance so many of them prefer being Prime Minister or CEO to that noble role - or in the West doing both. Why can't a woman combine both roles?

the muslim sister is the one who will influence and shape the society she's in

she is the backbone of the Islamic Ummah

I would agree with that. If she is ignorant and uneducated so will her children be.

the west where for the last 30 years having both parents employed became a phenomenon are facing serious problems like children being abused in daycare or children growing up with no parental guidance and turning into criminals

As opposed to Western Muslims who are far less likely to have a Mother who works but are also far more likely to be in jail or in trouble with the law? And aren't you Somali in origin? A community that in Britain has exceptional low rates of education, women's participation in the workforce but also high rates of criminal activity among the young.

Islam doesn't need to proof itself to an western ideologie like democracy

Never suggested it did.

It was muslim scholars who brought the west out of the Dark age

Well I don't agree but even if it is true, what have you done for us lately?

great female islamic scholars VVV

Umm al-Darda 700 AD

Zaynab bint Sulayman 759 AD

gained a reputation as one of the most distinguished women traditionists of the time, and counted many important men among her pupils."

Karima al-Marwaziyya 1144 AD

Fatima bint Muhammad 1178 AD

Sitt al-Wuzara 1316

Zaynab bint Ahmad 1139 AD

masha-allah may allah grant these great sisters Jannah Amiin

Indeed. And yet all the searching by Muslim websites has only found six. Interesting.