Group Says Iraq Detainee Abuse Was Ongoing
By DAVID B. CARUSO
AP
NEW YORK (July 23) - The group Human Rights Watch said in a report released Sunday that U.S. military commanders encouraged abusive interrogations of detainees in Iraq , even after the Abu Ghraib prison scandal called attention to the issue in 2004.
Between 2003 and 2005, prisoners were routinely physically mistreated, deprived of sleep and exposed to extreme temperatures as part of the interrogation process, the report said.
"Soldiers were told that the Geneva Conventions did not apply, and that interrogators could use abusive techniques to get detainees to talk," wrote John Sifton, a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch.
The organization said it based its conclusion on interviews with military personnel and sworn statements in declassified documents.
A Pentagon spokesman, Cmdr. Greg Hicks, said he wasn't aware of the report, but noted the military is reviewing its procedures regarding detainees following a Supreme Court ruling that the Geneva Conventions should apply in the conflict with al-Qaida.
The Bush administration had previously held that certain enemies, including terrorists, were illegal combatants and not protected by those rules.
The conventions prohibit "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment."
Human Rights Watch focused much of its report on a detention facility called Camp Nama at Baghdad International Airport.
One soldier, whose name was withheld from the report, described a suspected insurgent being stripped naked, thrown in the mud, sprayed with water and then exposed to frigid temperatures in an attempt to soften him up for interrogators.
Commanders, the soldier said, seemed confident that their treatment of prisoners was legal.
He described computerized authorization forms that had to be filled out before subjecting detainees to strobe lights, loud music, extreme heat or cold, or intimidation by barking dogs.
The allegations of abuse at the camp were first reported in March by The New York Times.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
i don't know why you brought "heads being hacked off" in connection with the tortures at abu ghraib. the head hacker-offers do not hold themselves up as the world saviour, the bringer of freedom and democracy and all that is good.
because of this, the u.s. should be held to a higher standard. i certainly do, regardless of what horrors the head hacker-offers do.
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
I just want M1A1 read again what you have posted
peace Snakelegs
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
And Americans heads were also being hacked off after Abu Ghraib. I can't beleive you're still getting goofy over this 'dead horse'. You equate and even imply that being 'humiliated' and 'deprived of sleep' is on the same level as having your head sawed off. If you want to scream about the Geneva Convention, where does 'head sawing' come in ? v
Oh of course your right we should all stop crying over the hundreds and thousands being tortured and raped and killed, the innocent children that suffer unimaginable situations and worry about the western casualties!
say how many were there? a hundred? a thousand?
dont get me wrong any innocent life is sad to lose but to actully sit here and read you saying to leave this "dead horse" as would be...
is just sickening and in response to your sympathetic view of those who suffered in abu ghraib and in iraqi i say stuff what your talking about!
why the hell should we care what your on about!? thousands of our people suffer and you ignore that and call it a "dead horse" and then expect us to care!??
tell you what mate get your head out the sand ok!??
what a joke!? i dont care about those who were beheaded beacuse i think my people are suffering ten fold and i will start worrying about the others once USA,uk and israel have stopped killing MY PEOPLE!!
pathetic!!
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
I don't see anyone suggesting that what has happned to some Iraqi detainees is right, only pointing out the lack of outrage for helpless prisoners who have their heads sawed off by murderers in masks and recording it on video. Of course the U.S. military should be held to a higher standard, but taken into context, with all soldiers knowing what would happen to them if they were taken captive, one should not be surprised that insurgent prisoners aren't treated too well. Not a justification for any of it.
tell you what mate get your head out the sand ok!??
what a joke!? i dont care about those who were beheaded beacuse i think my people are suffering ten fold and i will start worrying about the others once USA,uk and israel have stopped killing MY PEOPLE!!
pathetic!!
Hey, MJF. What abou the Iraqis that were beheaded? Where do they fit into this mess? where were you to speak up then? Who are your people? It seems like your people are responsible for this.
It seems you are only wanting to point the finger at westerners while you continually claim the innocence of your people.
Hey, MJF. What abou the Iraqis that were beheaded? Where do they fit into this mess? where were you to speak up then? Who are your people? It seems like your people are responsible for this.
It seems you are only wanting to point the finger at westerners while you continually claim the innocence of your people.
Pathetic.
...
Lol your well funny mate...
you make me laugh with your strange questions that seem to mean nothing and seem to ask even less...
however i will answer to help you....
My people you know those peeps called muslims!? yep thats them my people...
Iraqis beheaded yes...and what aboutthem again? he werent talking about them you can see that if you bother to read his post!?
he was talking of western beheadings!?
are you just posting for fun!? why dont you try reading the thread first?
And whats a mjf? if ya dont mind me askin..?
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
I don't see anyone suggesting that what has happned to some Iraqi detainees is right, only pointing out the lack of outrage for helpless prisoners who have their heads sawed off by murderers in masks and recording it on video. Of course the U.S. military should be held to a higher standard, but taken into context, with all soldiers knowing what would happen to them if they were taken captive, one should not be surprised that insurgent prisoners aren't treated too well. Not a justification for any of it.
thats nice to know strange however as people who are raped are civilians if you go and check those who were abused at abu ghraib were also civilians one of them being a mayor of one of the towns...
so again state your point here as your sticking up for people who torture innocents and based on what!?? that there american!? what a joke!?
if muslims torture people i say they are what they are and that is evil..
if they kill innocents i say what they are evil murderers i dont stick up for people based on there religon or race or country seems i cant say the same for many who stick up for the US army....
morals beyond country and race mate...
stick up for those who are right not just beacuse there american...
same here i applaud those american soilders who turned in those soilders who have commited crimes and taken these pictures...
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
It's too bad that any possible innocent detainees would go through any type of interrogation, or be detained at all. But as for the others, how else should the information be extracted? Tickle torture? Spank them with a feather? No dessert with a meal?
Prisons should not be like 5-star hotels. They should be like, well, prisons. If you are a terrorist, prepare to be terrorised.
It's too bad that any possible innocent detainees would go through any type of interrogation, or be detained at all. But as for the others, how else should the information be extracted? Tickle torture? Spank them with a feather? No dessert with a meal?
Prisons should not be like 5-star hotels. They should be like, well, prisons. If you are a terrorist, prepare to be terrorised.
Question is what are they interrogating them for... Do you really believe the Americans are there to end "terrorism"? I want an honest opinion on that one....after that many yrs have they found what they were looking for? up to and including WMD?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
It's too bad that any possible innocent detainees would go through any type of interrogation, or be detained at all. But as for the others, how else should the information be extracted? Tickle torture? Spank them with a feather? No dessert with a meal?
Prisons should not be like 5-star hotels. They should be like, well, prisons. If you are a terrorist, prepare to be terrorised.
yes yes your so right my gosh it all makes sense now..oh hold up what about the fact that out of 800 people in guntanamo where people are tortured beyond belif only 12 or less have een found guilty for the last what 3-4 years now!!!
and what about the fact that those in abu ghraib were civilians and not insurgents!?
oh but all that dont matter they are muslim and americans have arrested them it must be all right in the end hey!?
whatever..no morals...
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
yes yes your so right my gosh it all makes sense now..oh hold up what about the fact that out of 800 people in guntanamo where people are tortured beyond belif only 12 or less have een found guilty for the last what 3-4 years now!!!
and what about the fact that those in abu ghraib were civilians and not insurgents!?
oh but all that dont matter they are muslim and americans have arrested them it must be all right in the end hey!?
whatever..no morals...
Well the ignorant child that likes to argue has found me again. I think you must like me.
If you are going to make a claim that they are all civilians you need to back it with proof. Once again you post a reply that has nothing to do with what was said. Pathetic. So, anyway, how do you suggest they extract information from the terrorists?
PS LOL! You want to lecture me on morals!? You with your racist view who does not care about anyone that is hurt or killed by muslims?
Well the ignorant child that likes to argue has found me again. I think you must like me.
If you are going to make a claim that they are all civilians you need to back it with proof. Once again you post a reply that has nothing to do with what was said. Pathetic. So, anyway, how do you suggest they extract information from the terrorists?
PS LOL! You want to lecture me on morals!? You with your racist view who does not care about anyone that is hurt or killed by muslims?
Yes ok ?
anyhow as i said go and read the reports on abu ghraib and you will see they are civilians as reported by many western media..
and as for your racist comment!? i have never stated that anyone killed by muslims deserved it...again just beacuse you have said it in your head does not make it reality...i beleive quite the opposite only evil doers deserve such torture and death the innocent of any race have no part in this war...
i dont want this thread shut down due to you lacking the abilty to debate and instead throwing childish personal comments that dont do much or mean much on line...
so how about you try and debate instead of arguing!???
as i stated you can check the media it states clearly they were civilians and a mayor of one of the towns in iraq who was set free after the torture as he was innocent...
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
and as for your racist comment!? i have never stated that anyone killed by muslims deserved it...
You have changed what I said, again. I did not say you said they deserved it, I said that you don't care about people killed by muslims, you have a callous attitude towards them. You only care about muslims that are killed.
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
as i stated you can check the media it states clearly they were civilians and a mayor of one of the towns in iraq who was set free after the torture as he was innocent...
Why don't you provide some links, it is your claim. A few civilians in the mix and they should all be let go? That's just silly.
Why don't you answer the question, since it is related to the thread? Here it is again. How would you suggest extracting information from the terrorists? Since we know being 'nice' is not a very good interrogation tactic.
I'm sure many people in Abu Ghraib weren't a threat, and I know that many have been "tortured", although I think people have used that label to describe things that aren't torture in most people's minds. That being said, there was obviously a problem in that prison. However, I don't believe it was an isolated incident involving Private John Smith from Rhode Island. The pictures released from Abu Ghraib show obvious military intelligence officers and a few CIA officers. I don't know how far up the chain of command the orders for this style of interrogation were given, but it was the common soldier, who in my opinion were only following orders, that took the fall. I could be wrong, perhaps it was only prison guards who engaged in this behavior, but I have my doubts.
I'm sure many people in Abu Ghraib weren't a threat, and I know that many have been "tortured", although I think people have used that label to describe things that aren't torture in most people's minds. That being said, there was obviously a problem in that prison. However, I don't believe it was an isolated incident involving Private John Smith from Rhode Island. The pictures released from Abu Ghraib show obvious military intelligence officers and a few CIA officers. I don't know how far up the chain of command the orders for this style of interrogation were given, but it was the common soldier, who in my opinion were only following orders, that took the fall. I could be wrong, perhaps it was only prison guards who engaged in this behavior, but I have my doubts.
I agree with your entire post. In this thread we have 'claims' being made that most of the detainees were innocent. We also seem to have a general idea circulating that prisons should be like day camp. Like I said before, if you are a terrorists, prepare to be terrorised. The information cannot be extracted by beating them with feathers.
You have changed what I said, again. I did not say you said they deserved it, I said that you don't care about people killed by muslims, you have a callous attitude towards them. You only care about muslims that are killed.
Why don't you provide some links, it is your claim. A few civilians in the mix and they should all be let go? That's just silly.
Why don't you answer the question, since it is related to the thread? Here it is again. How would you suggest extracting information from the terrorists? Since we know being 'nice' is not a very good interrogation tactic.
LOL your not listening are you..they were all civilkians...
and your saying i should provide proof for general knowledge? im not the one who does not beleive my friend why dont you go and look before you talk..and you will clearly see that they were civilians..
and as for dealing with terroprists bring real justice and there wont be a need for terrorisem..
and again i will explain so that you can understand clearly..
i have stated no where that i dont care about those who have died by muslim hands as those who have died in things like 9/11 deserved none of it as they were innocents..
---
Last edited by Muhammad; 07-26-2006 at 09:31 AM.
Reason: offensive
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
LOL your not listening are you..they were all civilkians...
and your saying i should provide proof for general knowledge? im not the one who does not beleive my friend why dont you go and look before you talk..and you will clearly see that they were civilians..
and as for dealing with terroprists bring real justice and there wont be a need for terrorisem..
and again i will explain so that you can understand clearly..
i have stated no where that i dont care about those who have died by muslim hands as those who have died in things like 9/11 deserved none of it as they were innocents..
what i explained to you my little ignorant friend was that the uncaring attitude and racist view you have will only mirror at you that why should we muslims care for those who have been beheaded when your showing no emotion to the thousands dead!
but once again your messed up little mind has changed this to a view of hate that suits you and people like you!?
I don't think it is helpful to suggest all the detainees in Abu Ghraib were innocent, no more than it is to suggest all the detainees deserved to be there. There were plenty of really bad customers in Abu Ghraib. That being said...you say they were all "civilians"...what are you saying? That none of the prisoners were part of the Iraqi army?
I don't think it is helpful to suggest all the detainees in Abu Ghraib were innocent, no more than it is to suggest all the detainees deserved to be there. There were plenty of really bad customers in Abu Ghraib. That being said...you say they were all "civilians"...what are you saying? That none of the prisoners were part of the Iraqi army?
I~s aid they wre civilians i did not say they wre innocent...
if i stated every last one was innocent that would be diffrent it would be absurd to say they were all innocents..majority were innocent and majority were civilians.
Rise oh lions! Dawnoftheummah.com
:blind: F@te Is a blind path..you will see when you get there...:cresentbl
heheh little arms lol as i said this aint real life so keep taunting as long as your safe and sound behind your monitor your fine the day you stepped up to a real man mate serious you would learn your lesson...
i bet your around 16-18 kids always beleive themselves to be brave at this point trust me child the day you get in to a real fight you wont be asking for them...
now are you going to continue trying to pick a fight that will never go anywhere unless you had the guts to step up in to real life that im sure you dont...
whos trying to play the innocent!? im trying to defuse your ignorance but you just seem to want to fight..lol children..
did you go and check indeed they were civilians and? wheres your answer toyou misguided thoughts!?
people like you will never learn just keep thinking your right lol and then calling other racist on false pretenses have you looked in the mirror latley!??
Clowns are funny. Do you deny that you have been picking fights with people and then running to the mods? Pathetic troublemaker. As soon as someone stands up to you, you suddenly are the "stick to the thread" guy.
Shut your piehole with the insults to every person that holds a different opinion than you.
Why would I check your worthless claim? If you want to makea point, back it up. Otherwise shut up.
calling other racist on false pretenses
It was you that said that you didn't care about nonmuslims that were killed by muslims.
It's too bad that any possible innocent detainees would go through any type of interrogation, or be detained at all. But as for the others, how else should the information be extracted? Tickle torture? Spank them with a feather? No dessert with a meal?
Prisons should not be like 5-star hotels. They should be like, well, prisons. If you are a terrorist, prepare to be terrorised.
So, to add to my earlier point. It is interesting that many people that call for the punishment of criminals and fighting oppression, also oppose treating prisoners as prisoners. How are you supposed to treat criminals? What is just punishment? How do you get information? You can't just ask nicely.
That is why I'm slightly uncomfortable with the contention that people are being "tortured" by the U.S. military. If we go by the word of some of the most outspoken 'human rights" groups, not fluffing the prisoners pillow before he sleeps at night is torture. By the standards set by these same groups, every prison in the U.S. is torturing inmates. I think we need to be realist here about what torture actually is. Most people hear that the U.S. is "torturing" prisoners and automatically see dark rooms with men electrocuting, stabbing, cutting, breaking bones, beating, etc. Of course the truth is something quite different. No denying that bad things happened in Abu Ghraib, and while not necessarily torture, was meant to humiliate people. I'm speaking mainly about the people who say prisoners are being "tortured" at Gitmo and elsewhere. The International Red Cross has had access to Gitmo and could come to no such conslusion. Most of this is hyperbole and myth, tied in with conspiracy theories and political dissent.
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