I've come to talk to you guys about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the man who single-handedly broke up the Caliphate and threw Turkey head-first into future apostasy. Ataturk took pride in breaking up the Caliphate and has a legacy for it - a shameful legacy that too many Turks, sadly, take pride in.
For those who do not know Ataturk, its best to start with his disgusting, anti-Islamic Reforms:
Political Reforms
Abolition of the office of the Ottoman Sultan ruling since 1218, sending the last members of the House of Osman out of the country, and therefore giving the Turkish nation the right to exercise popular sovereignty via representative democracy
Proclamation of the new Turkish state as a republic - Republic of Turkey
Abolition of the office of caliphate held by the Ottomans since 1517
Social Reforms
Reform of headgear and dress
Adoption of international calendar, hours and measurements (As opposed to the Islamic calendar)
Legal Reforms
Closure of Islamic courts and the abolition of Islamic canon law (Death of Sharia in Turkey)
Transfer to a secular law structure by adoption from Swiss Civil Code and other laws (As opposed to Sharia)
Introduction of the new penal law modeled after Italian Penal Code (As opposed to Sharia)
Complete separation of government and religious affairs and the inclusion of the principle of laïcité in the constitution
Educational/Cultural Reforms
Abolishing of religious education system and the introduction of a national education system as the uniform standard (Unification of education)
Adoption of the new Turkish alphabet, derived from the Latin Alphabet (Ataturk opposed Arabic alphabets used in the Holy Quran)
Regulation of the university education
Economic Reforms
Abolition of capitulations of the Ottoman Empire in effect since the 15th century
Abolition of tithes (Ataturk opposed giving money to MOSQUES)
Last edited by Dahir; 11-16-2006 at 09:49 PM.
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
wasn't turkey already moving in a secular direction before ataturk?
Indeed.... they adapted Swiss Penal Code before Attaturk overthrown Ottoman Caliphate...
Furthermore, regardless of his Turkicisation of Muslim Turks efforts, the "Young Turks" inspired Malays to form "Young Malays" to gain independence from British.
With reference to our history textbooks read by Malaysian students nationwide... Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is depicted as someone good.
I take it Ataturk didn't meet this criteria. What did he do that went against the prophets and the Quran?
ALL of his reforms -- not one or two, but ALL. He discouraged, and even denied women to have headscarfs in public. He dropped use of the ISLAMIC calendar, by which our religion was given birth! He tossed Sharia law -- HOW can a man refuse the laws set by God?! Ataturk adopted Italian and Swiss penal and civil codes -- over God's codes!!
Is that enough, Keltoi?
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is depicted as someone good.
WHAT?!?!
And as for the Turkisation of Turkey, that's wrong. It has and will continue to fail the same way as pan-Arabism failed. Go to God for help, not a flag!
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
And as for the Turkisation of Turkey, that's wrong. It has and will continue to fail the same way as pan-Arabism failed. Go to God for help, not a flag!
Go to the Nationalists and say this then..... they're controlling our nations, not us forummers...
I aint suprised. I met Turkey's in general. Some of them have little knowledge about Islam, but they claim they are muslim. One of girl claimed she is a sunni but read's the bible, her mum is a Jehova witness and her dad is a Muslim (I am guessing by name only).
In turkey they are so proud if one can speak English for some reason. As Dahir said, they are more like English/American followers.
Thats a bizarre statement. The US is not popular at all in Turkey. In fact, the US is no more popular than in most other Muslim countries:
Rather than Turks not having an identity, they are fiercely nationalistic. Criticizing the own country is a horrible taboo, which sometimes even carries a jail sentence.
Last edited by KAding; 11-17-2006 at 11:20 AM.
Reason: Forgot to add the link to the Pew study
What exactly do those stats actually show "favorability" towards? It can't just be a general like/dislike, otherwise they say that 14% more Germans like the French than they do their fellow Germans!
Way OT I know, but its interesting to see how much the Chinese still loathe the Japanese, even 60 years after WW2 ended.
This is actually the first time I've heard that Muslims don't like Ataturk. The Turkish praise him for what he did to bring them into the modern era and create a stable and prosperous Turkish state. What Trumble mentioned about the decline of the Ottamon Empire and WWI is very important, because without Ataturk I don't think Turkey would be anything remotely like what it is today.
without islam the WORLD would not be 'anything remotley like what it is today'. islam modernised the world, islamic law was the first law that gave women rights, this was when in the west the women was still regarded as property (and still is), women were only given the right to vote 100 years ago, and only after one sufferagette threw herself infront of the kings horse and killed herself, muslims were figuring out orbits of other stars when the west still thought the world was flat, islam gave us algebra and cannons. so how can you say islam 'backwards'?
The freed slave shall walk on the blood of his masters
"Coffee is the only thing I like integrated" - El-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz (Malcolm X)
What exactly do those stats actually show "favorability" towards? It can't just be a general like/dislike, otherwise they say that 14% more Germans like the French than they do their fellow Germans!
My apologies, I forgot to add a link to the original pew study. I have edited my post. It appears the question they asked in the questionnaire was: "Please tell me if you have a very favorable, somewhat favorable, somewhat unfavorable, or very unfavorable opinion of (insert)?"
I don't think the German result is odd at all. Germans have a very low opinion of their own country somehow. I have seen other studies that confirm this, especially now that the German economy is doing so badly. Pride in their own country is not something Germans are taught, unlike Americans, who pretty much always think the US is the "greatest country on earth" .
Way OT I know, but its interesting to see how much the Chinese still loathe the Japanese, even 60 years after WW2 ended.
It has become part of the national culture and heritage no doubt.
without islam the WORLD would not be 'anything remotley like what it is today'. islam modernised the world, islamic law was the first law that gave women rights, this was when in the west the women was still regarded as property (and still is), women were only given the right to vote 100 years ago, and only after one sufferagette threw herself infront of the kings horse and killed herself, muslims were figuring out orbits of other stars when the west still thought the world was flat, islam gave us algebra and cannons. so how can you say islam 'backwards'?
Women in the West are still considered "property" huh? That is interesting, I will be sure and tell my wife that. As for Islam "modernizing" the world, I think you should look at the countries with a majority Muslim population and compare them to other more secular countries. Granted, progress and modernization or matters of perception, but compared to Turkey, countries like Syria, Iran, Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistian, etc have a long way to go to catch up with the Turkish in terms of economic stability, law, and world influence. I'm not saying Muslim equals bad country, but if one looks honestly at these countries they have a long way to go.
What are you talking about? I'm not talkin about Muezzin or whomever.
He wasn't talking about me
The muezzin is the person who makes the call to prayer. What north malaysian is saying is that Ataturk did not cancel the adhan - instead he required the muezzins to say it in Turkish rather than Arabic.
lol i know...omg, but i still mistook it for u
I forgot to add he canceled the adhaan in Arabic
Soe he even Turkicized our religion? Ataturk was another rabid nationalist like the fathers of pan-Arabism, Lenin, and Mao -- they all have failed and will continue, unless they straighten their ways!
I still can't believe Ataturk thought Islam was standing in the way of Turkey's progress. Well, lets see how far Turkey gets with Ataturk's screw-ups, I mean, reforms.
.............
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
Ataturk did EXACTLY what the West is trying to do to the rest of the Muslim countries in the world, cut them off from Islam and secularize them.
:ws:
And what a wonderful job Ataturk did! Now, in a hundred years, will Turkey be Atheist or Catholic?
...
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
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Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Enemy of Islam? (OP)
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