I've come to talk to you guys about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the man who single-handedly broke up the Caliphate and threw Turkey head-first into future apostasy. Ataturk took pride in breaking up the Caliphate and has a legacy for it - a shameful legacy that too many Turks, sadly, take pride in.
For those who do not know Ataturk, its best to start with his disgusting, anti-Islamic Reforms:
Political Reforms
Abolition of the office of the Ottoman Sultan ruling since 1218, sending the last members of the House of Osman out of the country, and therefore giving the Turkish nation the right to exercise popular sovereignty via representative democracy
Proclamation of the new Turkish state as a republic - Republic of Turkey
Abolition of the office of caliphate held by the Ottomans since 1517
Social Reforms
Reform of headgear and dress
Adoption of international calendar, hours and measurements (As opposed to the Islamic calendar)
Legal Reforms
Closure of Islamic courts and the abolition of Islamic canon law (Death of Sharia in Turkey)
Transfer to a secular law structure by adoption from Swiss Civil Code and other laws (As opposed to Sharia)
Introduction of the new penal law modeled after Italian Penal Code (As opposed to Sharia)
Complete separation of government and religious affairs and the inclusion of the principle of laïcité in the constitution
Educational/Cultural Reforms
Abolishing of religious education system and the introduction of a national education system as the uniform standard (Unification of education)
Adoption of the new Turkish alphabet, derived from the Latin Alphabet (Ataturk opposed Arabic alphabets used in the Holy Quran)
Regulation of the university education
Economic Reforms
Abolition of capitulations of the Ottoman Empire in effect since the 15th century
Abolition of tithes (Ataturk opposed giving money to MOSQUES)
Last edited by Dahir; 11-16-2006 at 09:49 PM.
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
I do know that Turkey is trying so much to please their patriots (Europeon) to get into the E.U. Their was this TV programme on BBC and a turkish was asking why do they hold back in admitting them in, he said something like this "You told us to give liberty to fornification, and to see it as normal part of society" now we did you still don't let us in.
To me he sounded as if he was begging (my word) "what more do you wan't, have we not done enough" (
assalamu aleykum all,
im a turk n living in istanbul in turkiye,and practising alhamdulillah...
firstly i dont hate atatürk,be cause, at least, he fought for this country against all the western world,,
but i dont like him anyway,be cause,he changed everything,,alphabet,clothing ,law system,,abolished the caliphate,etc..you know already...
as some friends wrote here,we are not only muslim in speech,,alhamdulillah,a little information; there are 70 000 mosques are here in turkey and nearly the same in iran,,and the percentage of going to Cum'a prayer is higher than iran here...
but unfortunately,nearly half of the population is not good in islam,,not praying properly,not thinking islamic rules so much,,some drinks alcohol,etc...
but also especially among the youngs,islam is rising up alhamdulillah,,,and inshaAllah we ll fix some problems soon (concerned hijab n so)..
about atatürk,
here in turkey,he is a taboo,we can not discus him,,it s not allowed,and i hate this actually,,,i want freedom about this too,,
he made good things,but in my opinion he did bad things more than good deeds...especially caliphate and alphabet are very important here,,
my grandpa fought with him in WW1 n war of independance ,and when he was talking about atatürk,he always began to cry and pray for him,,,and my grandfather was a good muslim as i saw,he could speak arabic,read Kur'an,praying properly and caring halal,haram vereytime...
and about being muslim and being a part of europe,,,i think this is impossible,not coz of us,,be coz of europe,,,they never want this and they dont behave honestly to turkey....and i dont wanna be a member of EU...we must be everywhere,middle asia,eurasia,,but in a muslim way,,proud ,independent,powerful,,,the muslim world needs this,,we need to be united again like in the past and stand against imperialism,,,
atatürk chose the wrong way i think,thats why we muslims are paining alot now,he effected every of us..after the ottomans, middle east never enjoyed anything,in palestine,irak,lebanon,syria,and northern part of africa,and so,,
brothers and sisters,the only way to be united again is;accepting islam as our nationality,,and inshaAllah it would happen again...
we need to prove that islam is the religion of peace,equalty and development...not terrorism,,
Its good to hear from a Turk and its eye-opening to see from a Turkish perspective on this current topic. The experiences I've had with Turks were a bit displeasing. Mainly because of what you said about only half the country practicing properly and such.
And again like you've said, Turkey is much-wrapped up in nationalism. Much like the state of the Arab world in the 70's. But today, much of the Arab world has reformed and religious uprisings are prevelant in many of those former nationalist nations. Maybe Turkey will go back to its religious roots. Hopefully.
"This world is a blank price tag, and whatever value you put on it, is what its worth to you. I have made this world priceless and worthless, so therefore I have placed my value in the afterlife."
assalamu aleykum all,
im a turk n living in istanbul in turkiye,and practising alhamdulillah...
firstly i dont hate atatürk,be cause, at least, he fought for this country against all the western world,,
but i dont like him anyway,be cause,he changed everything,,alphabet,clothing ,law system,,abolished the caliphate,etc..you know already...
......
Nice to hear from a brother from Turkey, I was looking for one for a long time, so they can give their view on the EU.
Sorry brother for cutting your post short. I realise some brother's came to strong on ataturk, maybe because of our strong love of Islam, and seeing that he(ataturk) basicly cut the lifeline of Islam out of turkey, I am sure he did not do it out of his own intitiative, but has much eauropean influence behind it.
He is not anyway unique in history.
If I was trying to demolish Islam in some way, I will do it similar to the way he did it.
1. Cut the Islamic education away in in some level,
2. prohibit Islamic Identity on certain level, change the Alphabet, and
3. remove trace of arabic language.
4. Introduce slowly other governing Law (man-made), and
5. introduce entertainment (all sort) to distract them and lead them astray.
6. Let anyone interpret the Quran anyway they feel like.
By doing this you push Islam into the back closest.
The point is he is dead, and their is no point in beating him about it to much.
I am glad that their is some awakening in Turkey, since two Turkish I met in my UNi here in UK claimed to be muslim, but did not know anything about it.
dear skillganon,neither i am a representative of all turks and nor those 2 turks u met at uni,,but it made me very sad that some bros n sisters think that turkiye is a toy of western world,and we are only muslim in words,,,
it is looking from out side but we are enough strong to stand against them still,and inshaAllah we ll take islam more to our lifes,like in the past...
as you said,i dont like the deeds of atatürk,he changed the whole life of us and he saw the glory in the way of europe, not in islam...but we still have hope alhamdulillah...
dear skillganon,neither i am a representative of all turks and nor those 2 turks u met at uni,,but it made me very sad that some bros n sisters think that turkiye is a toy of western world,and we are only muslim in words,,,
it is looking from out side but we are enough strong to stand against them still,and inshaAllah we ll take islam more to our lifes,like in the past...
as you said,i dont like the deeds of atatürk,he changed the whole life of us and he saw the glory in the way of europe, not in islam...but we still have hope alhamdulillah...
bro dahir n grace seeker,thanks for your replies,
peace all
Asslamu alaikum ( forgot to greet you)
I am not saying all turkish people are toys of west and that 2 turkish is representive of all turk's (probably I had high expectation),
I mean I have freinds that are muslim but hardly don't know much about it. So don't get me wrong.
I hope you stay in this forum brother and contribute more of your post, it is good to hear from you and see other views.
I alway's thought we should have more turkish brother's & sisters here in this forum.
Abdil han, was the Ottoman Caliphate 100% Islamic before Ataturk overthrown them?
salam malaysian brother
of course they were %100 islamic,especially till 1908,till Abdulhamid Han abdicated,,.
after this time some generals of the army got much power and influenced the caliph(and the sultan at the same time) very much....
in 1915,Sultan Muhammed Reshad declared Holy war(jihad) against all westerns and in every side of the islamic lands,muslims began to fight ,even in india,in southeast asia,in china,muslims revolted against their christian(non muslim i mean) kings n leaders..
did i get you correct? if not ,pls ask again more clear,,
B]
in 1915,Sultan Muhammed Reshad declared Holy war(jihad) against all westerns and in every side of the islamic lands,muslims began to fight ,even in india,in southeast asia,in china,muslims revolted against their christian(non muslim i mean) kings n leaders..
I dont know about this, but in our textbooks, it's mentioned that "Kesatuan Melayu Muda" (Young Malays Association) fighted the British because they are inspired by Young Turks led by Mustafa Kemal, not by Ottoman Caliph.
I dont know about this, but in our textbooks, it's mentioned that "Kesatuan Melayu Muda" (Young Malays Association) [FOUGHT] the British because they [WERE] inspired by Young Turks led by Mustafa Kemal, not by Ottoman Caliph.
There you go... fixed some typos.
However, I disagree. They (KMM) did not fight as in physically, but they adopted a stance against the British. But they weren't only the ones who were against British occupation of Malaya.
However, I disagree. They (KMM) did not fight as in physically, but they adopted a stance against the British. But they weren't only the ones who were against British occupation of Malaya.
Thanks for the grammatical corrections.
I thought KMM and PKM (Communist Party of MAlaya) were the only groups fighting British physically.
Abdil han, was the Ottoman Caliphate 100% Islamic before Ataturk overthrown them?
assalaamu alaykum,
no i must disagree with what others have stated here and say no it wasnt but it was better than nothing. in the same way the some muslim states claim to rule by shariah but it is not, but still it better than secularism or some other ism that might replace it.
the turkish kilaphate had abolished huddud punishment and introduced fines for these instead and also introduced paper currency over gold that allowed the gold standard to be abolished later that allowed riba to creep into the ummah on a large scale.
more importantly they were not strict against those 'muslims' who worshipped the dead and built shines to them and some of the kalifs actually went into this grave worship as well but i understand it wasnt all of them.
there were problems with the turkish kilaphate yes, but still i would fight for it today if it existed as our loyalty is to the concept of the kilaphate whether it is perfect or not.
alhamdulillah there is an amir ul mumineen again today and soon insha'allah one of the lands fighting for islam will establish the full kilaphate again.
the turkish kilaphate had abolished huddud punishment and introduced fines for these instead and also introduced paper currency over gold that allowed the gold standard to be abolished later that allowed riba to creep into the ummah on a large scale.
more importantly they were not strict against those 'muslims' who worshipped the dead and built shines to them and some of the kalifs actually went into this grave worship as well but i understand it wasnt all of them.
wa aleykum assalam bro,
hudd punishment hasnt been abolished by turkish caliphate,and they practiced this in history,but as you know hudd punishment needs very strong evidences n provements,,so thats why the ottomans didnt practised this oftenly...
about the grave worship,i didnt get what you meant exactly,,can you pls explain it more?
I dont know about this, but in our textbooks, it's mentioned that "Kesatuan Melayu Muda" (Young Malays Association) fighted the British because they are inspired by Young Turks led by Mustafa Kemal, not by Ottoman Caliph.
salam
the young turks were the generals n commanders of the ottoman army and till the independance war in 1919,they all fought in the leadreship of ottoman sultan(the caliph aswell),
and yes,mustafa kemal was one of them,and he went to samsun( the first city of gathering against invaders)to start the independance war,by the sultan's ship and with his permision..
wa aleykum assalam bro,
hudd punishment hasnt been abolished by turkish caliphate,and they practiced this in history,but as you know hudd punishment needs very strong evidences n provements,,so thats why the ottomans didnt practised this oftenly...
about the grave worship,i didnt get what you meant exactly,,can you pls explain it more?
wassalam
what i am referring to brother is when huddud punishments were suspended and fines brought in their place, this is ruling by other than Allah has revealed as someone is either innocent or guilty and therefore punished.
as for grave worship, i am referring to those who ask the dead for help and aid instead of asking Allah directly.
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Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Enemy of Islam? (OP)
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