Hamas' betrayal of Muslim brothers and sisters

**Chechnya** · 01-06-2007

Hamas prefer their kafir friends to an islamic nation that is being wiped out by their good friend Putin.
To them the slow genocide in Chechnya is an "internal russian problem" as said by Khalid Meshal in is visit to Russia:

The leader of radical Palestinian group Hamas said Friday that the conflict in breakaway Chechnya was Russia's internal problem, provoking a protest from the Chechen rebels.

"It is Russia's internal problem. We do not interfere in other states' internal problems," Hamas political chief Khaled Mashaal said after talks in Moscow.

Chechnya, a mainly Muslim province in southern Russia, has been wracked by two conflicts in the past decade between Russian troops and Chechen separatists.

Although large-scale fighting has ended, regular skirmishes and rebel land mine attacks continue. Human rights activists accuse Russian forces and their local Chechen allies of major abuses against civilians, including kidnapping and extra-judicial executions.

Chechen rebel envoy Akhmed Zakayev, who has been granted political asylum in Britain, said the Hamas statement was a betrayal but not unexpected.

"We did not expect there to be any difference between Hamas and Yasser Arafat," Zakayev told The Associated Press by telephone from London, referring to the late Palestinian leader. "They have put the interests of the Russian government above that of religious solidarity with Chechen Muslims."

Russia's invitation to Hamas, extended by President Vladimir Putin, was the first crack in an international front against the group, which has sent dozens of suicide bombers to Israel and does not recognize the right of the Jewish state to exist.

Hamas won parliamentary elections in January and is working to form a government.

Another Hamas quote on Chechnya:

"They are crafty with fibs, and one shouldn't believe it," Meshaal was quoted as saying. "The Palestinian problem has absolutely nothing in common with the Chechen problem, nor with any other [problem]." The Hamas leader accused Israel of wanting to "put Russia, a great country, in an embarrassing situation." Russia "has taken a brave position and, I think, will not fall for this blackmail," Meshaal said, adding that Russia "acts in its own interests and in the interest of peace in the Middle East" and "does not need the Israelis' poisonous advice."

**Skillganon** · 01-07-2007

I do not agree with the statement of Hamas concerning Chechnya. However I do agree with the struggle of the palestianian and chechen people.

**Sami Zaatari** · 01-07-2007

its called being smart, guys this is war u know? to win war u need tactics and as the prophet said war is deception. the hamas leader said that because it will help them out, because the russians will fund them and give them back door weapons to use against israel. whats the use of hamas saying u russians are so badddddddd down with u!!!!!!!!! it wud be of no use, instead it wud now make usa, israel, and russia vs hamas. getting the russians on their side is very good for the way things are, first take care of israel, then take care of the rest. the only reason arabs are stuck is because of israel, how the hell u expect to let Islam win when ur holy lands are occupied and stuck? first free the holy places then get to the rest, like how the prophet did, free Makkah, then move on and take care of the persians and romans in persia and jerusalem.

**Chechnya** · 01-07-2007

its called being smart, guys this is war u know? to win war u need tactics and as the prophet said war is deception. the hamas leader said that because it will help them out, because the russians will fund them and give them back door weapons to use against israel. whats the use of hamas saying u russians are so badddddddd down with u!!!!!!!!! it wud be of no use, instead it wud now make usa, israel, and russia vs hamas. getting the russians on their side is very good for the way things are, first take care of israel, then take care of the rest. the only reason arabs are stuck is because of israel, how the hell u expect to let Islam win when ur holy lands are occupied and stuck? first free the holy places then get to the rest, like how the prophet did, free Makkah, then move on and take care of the persians and romans in persia and jerusalem.

yes very smart, you just betray a nation that is being slaughtered, join with their enemies and tormenters and you call that "smart".

if that is "smart" i hate to imagine what "stupid" is.

btw do you realise you are just justifying all muslim countries recognising Israel and having friendly relations with israel?

they could also argue that having israel a close ally is helping them sort their own problems out - but something tells me you wont be so keen to see the palestinians betrayed as you are seeing the chechens betrayed...

as for the arab lands - theyre NOT more important than non-arab lands or people.

what you are suggesting is that all muslim nation betray each other if they can get a personal gain from it rather than stay united - i dont think you,ve thought your plan through very carefully

salam

**Woodrow** · 01-08-2007

The simple fact is that we as Muslims have let Chechnya down. Not only Chechnya but many if not all Muslims in what was formerly USSR terretory. we did not do it out of malice, we did it out of failure to learn and to study what has happened.

Many people are not even aware that at one time Russia and the former Soviet States had a very large Muslim Population. But, there has been Genocide beyond anything the world has imagined. All dating back to the 1800s.

How many people know what happened to the Circassians? How many people even know who the Circassians are and who they once were?

Summary: The genocide committed against the Circassian nation by Czarist Russia in the 1800s was the biggest genocide of the nineteenth century. Yet it has been almost entirely forgotten by later history, while everyone knows the later Jewish Holocaust and many have heard about the Armenian genocide. "Rather than of separate, selectively researched genocides, we should speak of a general genocidal tendency that affected many – both Muslim and Christian – people on a wide scene between 1856 and 1956, continuing in post-Soviet Russia until today", writes Antero Leitzinger. This article was originally published in "Turkistan News".

Source: http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/issue2/circass.htm

Russia has probably been guilty of murdering more Muslims than any other group in history. With the possible exception of the Genocide of nearly the entire Muslim population in China also in the 1800s.

The reduction in Muslim population has been drastic during the communist regime of China. So far all the communist governments have seen Muslims as threat and they have killed more than half million Muslims during the communist party rule. The ethnic cleansing of Muslims is continuously going on in China for the last fifty years. Muslims can not worship openly. The areas of Muslim majority have been kept undeveloped and when a Muslim wants to improve his / her standard of living he /she has no choice but to leave the area. When he / she arrives in the developed areas of China they are no more allowed to practice their religion openly.

Source: http://www.themodernreligion.com/rac...holocaust.html

Under the pretext of unification of national education, Islamic schools were closed and their students transferred to other schools which taught only Marxism and Maoism. Other outrages included the closing of over 29,000 mosques, the widespread torture of imams, and executions of over 360,000 Muslims. Aside from the physical annihilation, Muslims have been subjected to a constant attack on their Islamic identity especially during the so-called Cultural Revolution (1966-76). For instance, posters which appeared in Peking (later to be called Beijing) in 1966, openly called for the abolition of Islamic practices. Muslims were also barred from learning their written language which incorporated the Arabic script and was influenced by Arabic, Turkish and Farsi. This change was critical as it distanced Muslims from the Arabic language, the language of the Qur'an and their Islamic aspirations. During this era many Mosques were closed down and waqf properties were confiscated. (Yusuf Abdur Rahman)

Source: http://www.islamicpopulation.com/china_muslim.html

Perhaps it is not a very wise move to align with Communist and former Communist nations.

**Sami Zaatari** · 01-08-2007

i never said arab lands did i? i said HOLY LAND so learn how to read instead of putting words in my mouth. Makkah, Madina, and Al-Aqsa are FAR ABOVE chechnya on priority lists so get over it if you dont like it, i sense NATIONALISM comming in your tone. secondly, again, you couldnt refute me, tell me what good would it do if hamas so russia your so baddddddd, go on tell me. what will you say, ohhhh it shows unity? and, what the heck would that do for us in the long term? NOTHING. so no i suggest you think your plan out. secondly go read Islamic history, did you forget the treaty of hudaybiya? the prophet gave muslims back to the pagans as part of the agreement, many were angry and upset, but in the end it was for the best because it eventually led to victory, so this should teach you that in war sometimes hard decisions must be made for the bigger picture. so same in the case, many are angry and upset by these words of khaled, but in the end its for the good when you look at the big picture, YOUR plan does NOTHING for us, and again i tell you to bring me one good thing that would have happened had hamas said russia urrrrrrrr so bad, plz bring me one realistic good thing that would have resulted from it, you wont find any. secondly, go learn history, us palestinians have been betrayed so many times i lost count, by egypt, jordan, and on and on. oh yeah and syria, so plz dont tell me about betrayl buddy we knowwwww all about it, to this day palestinians are getting betrayed by their arab 'brethren'!

last but not least, hamas didnt betray you AT ALL, words mean nothing, did hamas put a gun in their hand and go killing chechens? NOPE. however so syrians, jordanians, and even lebanease put guns in their hands and killed palestinians, so again go learn some history of the middle-east conflict and then come talk about betrayl of palestinians. and as for arab countries recognizing israel, your already late, they all already do, secretly that is. the only country i dont know which has trade and financial exchanges with israel is syria. and the difference is is that these arab goverments arent doing it for the 'greater' good, their doing it for money and power to keep their own corrupt necks to rule over the arabs thats all.

**Sami Zaatari** · 01-08-2007

and you know, can you tell me what chechens have done for palestinian muslims? i may be ignorant, but i dont recall a single thing you have done, why dont you send hundreds of fighters to palestine? nah, you send hundreds of chechens to fight in afghanistan and uzbekistan instead!!!!!!!!! so you know thats really funny to me, you have neverrrrrrrr done anything for palis, you talk about unity, helping each other, and yet chechen fighters go fight in afghanistan instead. and hey im not saying you should go fight in palestine, you do what you want, but dont come nag on us when you have never done anything for us, including that chechen rebel you quoted.

**SATalha** · 01-08-2007

ood post Woodrow. I didnt know about this, thanks for informming us.

**SATalha** · 01-08-2007

Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari

and you know, can you tell me what chechens have done for palestinian muslims? i may be ignorant, but i dont recall a single thing you have done, why dont you send hundreds of fighters to palestine? nah, you send hundreds of chechens to fight in afghanistan and uzbekistan instead!!!!!!!!! so you know thats really funny to me, you have neverrrrrrrr done anything for palis, you talk about unity, helping each other, and yet chechen fighters go fight in afghanistan instead. and hey im not saying you should go fight in palestine, you do what you want, but dont come nag on us when you have never done anything for us, including that chechen rebel you quoted.

Calm down bro, i understand your tone but your speeking to a brother not a kufar. We know that the Palestinian people have been betrayed on and on. I think the brother was jus saying that you are recieving more coverage than they are.

But it doesnt matter about coverage, we should feel each other pain, we are one body remember. Although the Hammas leader did this for tactical purpose i still dont think that he should of made those comments and made the Chechens feel that they are not important. Thats all we are debating. Inshallah in the long run what Hammas is trying to do will be successfull and we will see the liberation of Al-quds and than the other Muslim lands. Jus take it easy Bros we shouldnt have negativity towards each other

**Chechnya** · 01-08-2007

i never said arab lands did i? i said HOLY LAND so learn how to read instead of putting words in my mouth. Makkah, Madina, and Al-Aqsa are FAR ABOVE chechnya on priority lists so get over it if you dont like it, i sense

Sorry to burst your bubble but no it is NOT more important.
The prophet (saw) said:

“The Blood of a Muslim is worth more than the Ka’aba.”

in Chechnya the blood of Muslims is being shed in vast amounts over the last 12 years - 25% of the nation has been wiped out, including 40,000 children.

So your little statement here contradicts what the prophet (saw) taught us - i advise you have a re-think.

NATIONALISM comming in your tone

Im not chechen nor palestinian so how am i being a nationalist?

secondly, again, you couldnt refute me, tell me what good would it do if hamas so russia your so baddddddd, go on tell me. what will you say, ohhhh it shows unity? and, what the heck would that do for us in the long term? NOTHING.

On the contrary - i did refute you. By your logic, it is now permisable for every muslim nation to betray the palestinians and open friendly relations with israel as long it benefits them.

Yes - thats how stupid your logic is.

NOTHING. so no i suggest you think your plan out. secondly go read Islamic history, did you forget the treaty of hudaybiya? the prophet gave muslims back to the pagans as part of the agreement, many were angry and upset, but in the end it was for the best because it eventually led to victory, so this should teach you that in war sometimes hard decisions must be made for the bigger picture. so same in the case, many are angry and upset by these words of khaled, but in the end its for the good when you look at the big picture, YOUR plan does NOTHING for us, and again i tell you to bring me one good thing that would have happened had hamas said russia urrrrrrrr so bad, plz bring me one realistic good thing that would have resulted from it, you wont find any.

Bro , you are missing the main point of the treaty! The treaty was signed so Muslims as well as non-muslims could live in security without fear for their lives.

It was only after the Quraish attacked the allies of the Muslims and blood was shed that the Prophet (saw) announced that the treaty was then void!

So how does that compare to what Hamas did. Did they sign a treaty for the protection of Muslims? No.

Did they even acknowledge their suffering Muslim brothers and sisters? No.

The suffering of Muslims in Chechnya is an "internal affair" according to Hamas.

So your analagy is incorrect and bears little relevance to this situation.

secondly, go learn history, us palestinians have been betrayed so many times i lost count, by egypt, jordan, and on and on. oh yeah and syria, so plz dont tell me about betrayl buddy we knowwwww all about it, to this day palestinians are getting betrayed by their arab 'brethren'

!

So your response is to betray other Muslims in return? Great thinking.

Tell me do you support all Muslims recognising Israel, having friendly relations with Israel, calling palestinian suffering an "internal affair" and calling Israel a great country?

Sounds like you do.

last but not least, hamas didnt betray you AT ALL, words mean nothing, did hamas put a gun in their hand and go killing chechens? NOPE. however so syrians, jordanians, and even lebanease put guns in their hands and killed palestinians, so again go learn some history of the middle-east conflict and then come talk about betrayl of palestinians. and as for arab countries recognizing israel, your already late, they all already do, secretly that is. the only country i dont know which has trade and financial exchanges with israel is syria. and the difference is is that these arab goverments arent doing it for the 'greater' good, their doing it for money and power to keep their own corrupt necks to rule over the arabs thats all.

Again, you miss the point.

All these regimes in the Muslim world are corrupt with little care for Muslims. The difference is the Mujahideen in Chechnya and Hamas and similar groups are supposedly Islamic groups.
One has come tp expect betray from some dodgy arab nationalist government but NOT from supposed Islamic groups. If all the islamic brother start betraying each other then there is nothing left for the Muslims.

You keep speaking of all the corrupt arab regimes who betrayed palestine - and i agree with you - yet you fail to realise now Hamas is doing the exact same thing and for some reason you support it when Hamas do it but get angry when other governments do it?

Again doesnt make much sense to me.

and you know, can you tell me what chechens have done for palestinian muslims? i may be ignorant, but i dont recall a single thing you have done, why dont you send hundreds of fighters to palestine?

May be you are a little ignorant on this matter.
At the start of the second intifada, Chechen commander Shamil Basayev offered to send 150 fighters to Palestine to help - Sheikh Ahmed Yassin at the time said there was no need since Chechnya needed the fighters itself as the second war had just started and the Russians were advncing all over Chechnya

nah, you send hundreds of chechens to fight in afghanistan and uzbekistan instead!!!!!!!!! so you know thats really funny to me, you have neverrrrrrrr done anything for palis, you talk about unity, helping each other, and yet chechen fighters go fight in afghanistan instead. and hey im not saying you should go fight in palestine, you do what you want, but dont come nag on us when you have never done anything for us, including that chechen rebel you quoted.

Wow

Finally you have me convinced that you and Hamas are just Arab nationalists.

So some Chechen brothers leave to help brothers and sisters in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan and you try to make it as if its something bad! Subhanallah.

Chechen fighters made their offer to send fighters to Palestine - they made the offer when they were in trouble themselves but still offered to send the fighters - the offer was refused like i explained above.

Your posts are seething with arab nationalism - you dont seem to understand the concept of Ummah.
You think that helping Muslims in afghanistan or uzbekistan isnt as important as going to palestine, even when they dont want you.

Do you even know what is happening to our brothers and sisters in Uzbekistan and all the suffering that is happening there?? How can you dismiss that so easily just like Hamas dismissed the suffering of Chechens so easily?
You complain when you feel Arab goverments have betrayed Palestine yet you support it when Hamas do the same.

**Nisrin** · 01-08-2007

Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari

its called being smart, guys this is war u know? to win war u need tactics and as the prophet said war is deception. the hamas leader said that because it will help them out, because the russians will fund them and give them back door weapons to use against israel. whats the use of hamas saying u russians are so badddddddd down with u!!!!!!!!! it wud be of no use, instead it wud now make usa, israel, and russia vs hamas. getting the russians on their side is very good for the way things are, first take care of israel, then take care of the rest. the only reason arabs are stuck is because of israel, how the hell u expect to let Islam win when ur holy lands are occupied and stuck? first free the holy places then get to the rest, like how the prophet did, free Makkah, then move on and take care of the persians and romans in persia and jerusalem.

Salaam wa alaikoem

I agree with you, that is also what i thought at the beginning...

And by the way chechny.....I am a woman not a man, so why do you call me bro

But doesn;t matter...

Hamas haven't betrayed chechaneyen people...ok you feel that way, but they just didn;t....and they have to think first about the palestinian by the way on the moment....

I know a bit about the checheneyen people, cause my grandmother have a checheneyen woman as neighbour and i have talked with her a few times.
But sometimes you have to help yourself, before you can help others.
Sorry...

wa alaikoem salaam

**Woodrow** · 01-08-2007

Sadly because they are not being killed by Americans or Jews, the Deaths of Muslims in Russia do not count. It is of no concern that in the past 250 years more Muslims have died in Russia and China then the total population of the World's Arab nations.

There has been an ongoing genocide of Muslims in Russia and China that makes the Jewish Holocaust look small by comparesion. It has been going on for at least 250 years non-stop and still continues. About the only remnants left of Islam in Russia are the remaining Chechnyans and few surviving Tatars. Gone are The Circassians, Gone are most of the vast Tatar tribes, gone are the People who built great Masjids from Moscow to Minsk and all that remains today are the onion top domes of Christian cathedrals that were once proud mosques or copied after the destroyed mosques.

Now it is true that Muslims do make up about 25 million Russians today. But that is only because their homelands were annexed by Russia. Many of them do not choose to be Russian.

We have abandoned the Chechnyans and then slapped their face by aligning with the Russians.

**Chechnya** · 01-08-2007

Salaam wa alaikoem

I agree with you, that is also what i thought at the beginning...

And by the way chechny.....I am a woman not a man, so why do you call me bro But doesn;t matter...

Hamas haven't betrayed chechaneyen people...ok you feel that way, but they just didn;t....and they have to think first about the palestinian by the way on the moment....

I know a bit about the checheneyen people, cause my grandmother have a checheneyen woman as neighbour and i have talked with her a few times.
But sometimes you have to help yourself, before you can help others.
Sorry...

wa alaikoem salaam

Salam

Sorry - i didnt realise you were a sis

what do you mean they havent betrayed them?

if muslim countries recognise israel, become friends with israel, call israel a great country, dismiss palestinian suffering as an "internal israeli affair", then that would be a betrayal dont you think?

Chechen representives themselves have condemned what Hamas did and said that groups who support the people slaughtering Muslims in Chechnya are not friends or allies.

putting ones head in the sand doesnt change reality

**Chechen** · 01-08-2007

Originally Posted by sister_fatimah

Ihavent read this posts before , i wonder how can we help our bro and sis from chechnya ...ther are always in my dua'as , i love them by Allah but what else can I do ?
bro chechen, can u talk about the situation od the sisters ? I ve read terrible things

Salam sister

Well where I live here in France there are some organizations that are meant to collect money and send it to Chechnya but it ends up in their pockets or gets stolen on the way. There isn't really much you can do to help us just pray and ask Allah to grant us a quick victory as well as every other muslim in need.

Chechnya is Hell on Earth. That's the description everyone gives it. Even on the road entering Grozny(capital city) there is a huge sign that says : Welcome to Hell. 80% of the city is destroyed. 300 000 people in which 42 000 are children have died as a result of these 2 last wars. Men pick up arms and join the Jihad against Russia. The ones that don't leave for war are usually kidnapped, savagely tortured and then killed and buried somewhere in the forest or in the basement of the concentration camp. And yes there are concentration camps in Chechnya which are impossible to get into. Rare are the ones that come out of there alive. Women are also taken away and tortured and often raped. The tortures these people go through are unimaginable. I can tell you some if you want but they are really brutal. Children aren't excluded from the horrors. Children are also killed, tortured and there have also been cases of child rape and even once when a baby got raped. Children are also tricked by being given toys which actually are bombs. And there is so much more going on there. Things you would have never imagined...

**Chechen** · 01-08-2007

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Sadly because they are not being killed by Americans or Jews, the Deaths of Muslims in Russia do not count. It is of no concern that in the past 250 years more Muslims have died in Russia and China then the total population of the World's Arab nations.

There has been an ongoing genocide of Muslims in Russia and China that makes the Jewish Holocaust look small by comparesion. It has been going on for at least 250 years non-stop and still continues. About the only remnants left of Islam in Russia are the remaining Chechnyans and few surviving Tatars. Gone are The Circassians, Gone are most of the vast Tatar tribes, gone are the People who built great Masjids from Moscow to Minsk and all that remains today are the onion top domes of Christian cathedrals that were once proud mosques or copied after the destroyed mosques.

Now it is true that Muslims do make up about 25 million Russians today. But that is only because their homelands were annexed by Russia. Many of them do not choose to be Russian.

We have abandoned the Chechnyans and then slapped their face by aligning with the Russians.

Yeah we've been fighting the Russians for 400 years now and we have gone through everything and don't fear anything now. Don't get me wrong. We aren't losing the war we aren't letting the Russians breathe for a single second. The Russians suffer heavy losses and just a few days ago 10 Russian soldiers were killed and had a BMP destroyed. Just if instead of ignoring us and acting like we weren't there, the Muslim world helped us we would win faster. Don't worry we will finish by winning this war. We always do. Just if the rest of the muslim world helped us we could finish this war before more innocent lives are taken away.

**AvarAllahNoor** · 01-08-2007

The ummah is divided. Palestine need to concentrate on building itself a better country to live in. The current government are rivals, this will not help them whatsoever.

As for Chechnya i have no comments!

**Nisrin** · 01-08-2007

Originally Posted by Chechnya

Salam

Sorry - i didnt realise you were a sis

what do you mean they havent betrayed them?

if muslim countries recognise israel, become friends with israel, call israel a great country, dismiss palestinian suffering as an "internal israeli affair", then that would be a betrayal dont you think?

Chechen representives themselves have condemned what Hamas did and said that groups who support the people slaughtering Muslims in Chechnya are not friends or allies.

putting ones head in the sand doesnt change reality

Doesn;t matter

You've got a point...

**rav** · 01-08-2007

I don't think most of you get the point the Chechen is trying to make.

How mad would you all be if the Chechens talked with the Israeli's? Would yoh be angry if Israel started supporting them with weapons? Would you mad if the Chechens and Israeli's became buddies?

If so, then why the souble standard with Hamas, unless we get to the truth, getting rid of all those Jews in Israel is more important to you all than fighting for a patch of dirt with a bunch of Chechens who you all really couldn't care about.

**Chechen** · 01-08-2007

People don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that I hate Palestinians or that I don't support them for their struggle. I support their cause which is a good one. I just want to say that Hamas have betrayed us and that I have lost all respect for them and that I no longer see them as allies aswell as every Chechen now. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that.

**Jayda** · 01-08-2007

hola chechen,

i am sorry if i offend you with my question but what is a chechen? there is another user here with a similar name "chechnya" are you related or is this a denomination of islam?

gracias

**Woodrow** · 01-08-2007

See a short history of the Chechnya Republic. An independant country that has been fighting for freedom from Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya