South America: Toward an Alternative Future
Noam Chomsky
International Herald Tribune, January 5, 2007
Last month a coincidence of birth and death signaled a transition for South America and indeed for the world.
The former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet died even as leaders of South American nations concluded a two-day summit meeting in Cochabamba, Bolivia, hosted by President Evo Morales, at which the participants and the agenda represented the antithesis of Pinochet and his era.
In the Cochabamba Declaration, the presidents and envoys of 12 countries agreed to study the idea of forming a continent-wide community similar to the European Union.
The declaration marks another stage toward regional integration in South America, 500 years after the European conquests. The subcontinent, from Venezuela to Argentina, may yet present an example to the world on how to create an alternative future from a legacy of empire and terror.
The United States has long dominated the region by two major methods: violence and economic strangulation. Quite generally, international affairs have more than a slight resemblance to the Mafia. The Godfather does not take it lightly when he is crossed, even by a small storekeeper.
Previous attempts at independence have been crushed, partly because of a lack of regional cooperation. Without it, threats can be handled one by one. (Central America, unfortunately, has yet to shake the fear and destruction left over from decades of U.S.-backed terror, especially during the 1980s.)
To the United States, the real enemy has always been independent nationalism, particularly when it threatens to become a "contagious example," to borrow Henry Kissinger's characterization of democratic socialism in Chile.
On Sept. 11, 1973,
Pinochet's forces attacked the Chilean presidential palace. Salvador Allende, the democratically elected president, died in the palace, apparently by his own hand, because he was unwilling to surrender to the assault that demolished Latin America's oldest, most vibrant democracy and established a regime of torture and repression.
The official death toll for the coup is 3,200; the actual toll is commonly estimated at double that figure. An official inquiry 30 years after the coup found evidence of approximately 30,000 cases of torture during the Pinochet regime. Among the leaders at Cochabamba was the Chilean president, Michelle Bachelet. Like Allende, she is a socialist and a physician. She also is a former exile and political prisoner. Her father was a general who died in prison after being tortured.
At Cochabamba, Morales and President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela celebrated a new joint venture, a gas separation project in Bolivia. Such cooperation strengthens the region's role as a major player in global energy.
Venezuela is already the only Latin American member of OPEC, with by far the largest proven oil reserves outside the Middle East. Chávez envisions Petroamerica, an integrated energy system of the kind that China is trying to initiate in Asia.
The new Ecuadorian president, Rafael Correa, proposed a land-and-river trade link from the Brazilian Amazon rain forest to Ecuador's Pacific Coast — a South American equivalent of the Panama Canal.
Other promising developments include Telesur, a new pan-Latin American TV channel based in Venezuela and an effort to break the Western media monopoly.
The Brazilian president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, called on fellow leaders to overcome historical differences and unite the continent, however difficult the task.
Integration is a prerequisite for genuine independence. The colonial history — Spain, Britain, other European powers, the United States — not only divided countries from one another but also left a sharp internal division within the countries, between a wealthy small elite and a mass of impoverished people.
The main economic controls in recent years have come from the International Monetary Fund, which is virtually a branch of the U.S. Treasury Department. But Argentina, Brazil and now Bolivia have moved to free themselves of IMF strictures.
Because of the new developments in South America, the United States has been forced to adjust policy. The governments that now have U.S. support — like Brazil under Lula — might well have been overthrown in the past, as was President João Goulart of Brazil in a U.S.-backed coup in 1964.
To maintain Washington's party line, though, it's necessary to finesse some of the facts. For example, when Lula was re- elected in October, one of his first acts was to fly to Caracas to support Chávez's electoral campaign. Also, Lula dedicated a Brazilian project in Venezuela, a bridge over the Orinoco River, and discussed other joint ventures.
The tempo is picking up. Also last month, Mercosur, the South American trading bloc, continued the dialogue on South American unity at its semiannual meeting in Brazil, where Lula inaugurated the Mercosur Parliament — another promising sign of deliverance from the demons of the past.
The question is whether South America will be willing to unite under a socialist banner. Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends, in a large part, on what happens in Venezuela. If the poor in that country continue to believe Chavez's policies are helping them, perhaps that will lead to more socialist governments elsewhere.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
The question is whether South America will be willing to unite under a socialist banner. Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends, in a large part, on what happens in Venezuela. If the poor in that country continue to believe Chavez's policies are helping them, perhaps that will lead to more socialist governments elsewhere.
would be hard for them not to believe now they have access to decent healthcare and other services for the first time.
also, chavez although a socialist is also a committed christian i understand
would be hard for them not to believe now they have access to decent healthcare and other services for the first time.
also, chavez although a socialist is also a committed christian i understand
Abu Abdullah
In the long term these policies will win Chavez support from the poor, who make up the majority of Venezuala. However, like other experiments in socialism in Latin America, that support will also be dependent on how many of the poor can get out of poverty in a socialist system.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
In the long term these policies will win Chavez support from the poor, who make up the majority of Venezuala. However, like other experiments in socialism in Latin America, that support will also be dependent on how many of the poor can get out of poverty in a socialist system.
i personally think such help programs, a hand up rather than a hand out as it were are closer to the christian and muslim traditions of charity than a pure welfare system and obviously much better than the supposed drip down effect of capitialism.
South America should be a concentration point for a lot of da3wah IMO, because I think there's a good possibility of spreading Islam in a place where like that, where America doesn't have much influence.
Any idea whether there are actual Islamic campaigns in South America at this time?
South America should be a concentration point for a lot of da3wah IMO, because I think there's a good possibility of spreading Islam in a place where like that, where America doesn't have much influence.
Any idea whether there are actual Islamic campaigns in South America at this time?
The Catholic Church holds sway in South America, and has since 1500. The people down there are very devoted Catholics.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
South America should be a concentration point for a lot of da3wah IMO, because I think there's a good possibility of spreading Islam in a place where like that, where America doesn't have much influence.
Any idea whether there are actual Islamic campaigns in South America at this time?
assalaamu alaykum,
the murabitun sufi movement has several compounds in south america, mexico and spain. they have some wacked out ideas on a few matters like music and seem a bit relaxed on issues like mixing but still they're trying where others havent even thought of making an effort yet.
The Catholic Church holds sway in South America, and has since 1500. The people down there are very devoted Catholics.
The way I see it, if people can be steered towards Christianity, they could just as easily be steered towards Islam, if not easier since Islam has a lot less "strange ideas" than Christianity. I think having a mutual enemy, the government of America in this case, is a good starting point for creating ties with the people of South America. Someone should really use this opportunity.
format_quote Originally Posted by Dawud
assalaamu alaykum,
the murabitun sufi movement has several compounds in south america, mexico and spain. they have some wacked out ideas on a few matters like music and seem a bit relaxed on issues like mixing but still they're trying where others havent even thought of making an effort yet.
assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
Wa 3aleikum elsalaam brother. Yeah it's good that someone's doing something, but I think a lot more could and should be done over there.
The way I see it, if people can be steered towards Christianity, they could just as easily be steered towards Islam, if not easier since Islam has a lot less "strange ideas" than Christianity. I think having a mutual enemy, the government of America in this case, is a good starting point for creating ties with the people of South America. Someone should really use this opportunity.
Wa 3aleikum elsalaam brother. Yeah it's good that someone's doing something, but I think a lot more could and should be done over there.
Christianity doesn't have "weird ideas" to the people of South America. I'm sure a majority of them would find Islam to have "weird" ideas. As far as the "mutual enemy", I'm not sure what you are talking about. Most South American countries have good relations with the United States, not to mention that having problems with the United States in no way would make them doubt their religious faith.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I won't say much about what I know of South America. However, it is much more Westernized than North America (Canada, USA, Mexico) are in terms of what many people consider the faults of Western Civilization. Islam has been in South America for Hundreds of years as there were many Mid-eastern Immigrants, but it seems to be confined to the Mideastern districts of the large cities and reverts seem to be uncommon. Nearly all of the South American countries have been established longer than the USA or Canada and the people are very much like Europeans except for the Language.
Try a Google search of these cities. Caracas probably has the largest Muslim population in South America, I believe there is only one Masjid (Masjid Ibrahim) and it is a very old Masjid.
Caracas
Rio de Janiero
La Paz
Sao Paulo
Those cities pretty much typify what I have seen throughout South America
Christianity doesn't have "weird ideas" to the people of South America. I'm sure a majority of them would find Islam to have "weird" ideas.
Yes, Islam might seem strange to some, but it tends to attract people with its logic, which Christianity fails to do to some people. "Because that's what God wants" tends to be the answer to a lot of questions in Christianity, and a lot of people are surprised that Islam has actual practical answers to similar questions. I'm not saying that we don't have people that say the same thing when put on the spot, but the real knowledgable and thinking Muslims tend to have answers to almost all questions presented to them. That's one of the reasons people, especially Christians, are intrigued by Islam and like to study it further.
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
As far as the "mutual enemy", I'm not sure what you are talking about. Most South American countries have good relations with the United States
Well, the Venezuelans aren't very fond of America now are they? In fact, I don't think any of the SA countries on any especially good terms with America, but I could be wrong.
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
not to mention that having problems with the United States in no way would make them doubt their religious faith.
It's not about doubting religious faith, it's about opening friendly channels for communication. A common enemy usually lets people put aside their differences and start to work together. This gives a good chance for people to know more about Islam, which they probably have no idea about now. Not only that, but interaction with Muslims lets others see the true qualities of pious Muslims; politeness, honesty, trust, and that in itself is enough to encourage people to want to learn more about Islam without you even having to go to them. How do you think Islam spread in the far east?
But none of this can happen if there aren't any Muslims there and that all communication channels are closed.
Well, the Venezuelans aren't very fond of America now are they? In fact, I don't think any of the SA countries on any especially good terms with America, but I could be wrong.
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Yes, Islam might seem strange to some, but it tends to attract people with its logic, which Christianity fails to do to some people. "Because that's what God wants" tends to be the answer to a lot of questions in Christianity, and a lot of people are surprised that Islam has actual practical answers to similar questions. I'm not saying that we don't have people that say the same thing when put on the spot, but the real knowledgable and thinking Muslims tend to have answers to almost all questions presented to them. That's one of the reasons people, especially Christians, are intrigued by Islam and like to study it further.
Well, the Venezuelans aren't very fond of America now are they? In fact, I don't think any of the SA countries on any especially good terms with America, but I could be wrong.
It's not about doubting religious faith, it's about opening friendly channels for communication. A common enemy usually lets people put aside their differences and start to work together. This gives a good chance for people to know more about Islam, which they probably have no idea about now. Not only that, but interaction with Muslims lets others see the true qualities of pious Muslims; politeness, honesty, trust, and that in itself is enough to encourage people to want to learn more about Islam without you even having to go to them. How do you think Islam spread in the far east?
But none of this can happen if there aren't any Muslims there and that all communication channels are closed.
Islam is very strange to some people, more so than Christianity, you do realize that the majority of the world is Christian so it must not be that strange. Islam isnt really even a close second when you think of it in terms of how many people there are in the world (i think they are about 15% less than Christians)
Also to your point about a "common" enemy, are you saying that the US is an enemy to Muslims? If you are, perhaps we should start a poll to see if other share your view, and if they do perhaps America should start a true war against Islam if they are, in fact, our enemy. I would hope this isnt case
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
The question is whether South America will be willing to unite under a socialist banner. Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends, in a large part, on what happens in Venezuela. If the poor in that country continue to believe Chavez's policies are helping them, perhaps that will lead to more socialist governments elsewhere.
Socialism is great. If it works. Unfortunately, in ninety years or so of trying to put it into practice nobody has yet succesfully demonstrated that it can.
As you say, if Chavez does succeed other countries may follow. I'm not holding my breath.
The question is whether South America will be willing to unite under a socialist banner. Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends, in a large part, on what happens in Venezuela. If the poor in that country continue to believe Chavez's policies are helping them, perhaps that will lead to more socialist governments elsewhere.
hola Keltoi,
i think americans associate socialism with communism and attach the bad things that happened in some communist countries to socialism... also i think maybe many americans do not understand that laissez faires free market economics are cultural to the english speaking world especially britain and american... but it is culturally more natural to share resources in other parts of the world like south america and other places...
socialism is a very good thing fundamentally... and it is a more natural economic perspective for south americans than other western alternatives i think...
I won't say much about what I know of South America. However, it is much more Westernized than North America (Canada, USA, Mexico) are in terms of what many people consider the faults of Western Civilization. Islam has been in South America for Hundreds of years as there were many Mid-eastern Immigrants, but it seems to be confined to the Mideastern districts of the large cities and reverts seem to be uncommon. Nearly all of the South American countries have been established longer than the USA or Canada and the people are very much like Europeans except for the Language.
Try a Google search of these cities. Caracas probably has the largest Muslim population in South America, I believe there is only one Masjid (Masjid Ibrahim) and it is a very old Masjid.
Caracas
Rio de Janiero
La Paz
Sao Paulo
Those cities pretty much typify what I have seen throughout South America
hola Woodrow,
there is an islamic presence in south america... it is a very large place... but please do not misinterpret this... it is and will always be a minority... Roman Catholicism is our culture...
Socialism is great. If it works. Unfortunately, in ninety years or so of trying to put it into practice nobody has yet succesfully demonstrated that it can.
As you say, if Chavez does succeed other countries may follow. I'm not holding my breath.
personally I believe 100% in democracy, but everyone has their own choice
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
personally I believe 100% in democracy, but everyone has their own choice
Our American Democracy is much closer to socialism than Communism ever was and the UK Monarchy is even much closer. Our version of Democracy is basicaly limited socialism.
Islam is very strange to some people, more so than Christianity, you do realize that the majority of the world is Christian so it must not be that strange. Islam isnt really even a close second when you think of it in terms of how many people there are in the world (i think they are about 15% less than Christians)
I don't disagree, a lot of the Christians I spoke to that converted to Islam, including a couple of priests, mentioned that Islam made a lot more sense to them than Christianity. Anyways, I don't want this to go into a discussion about which religion is better or whatnot, but let's just say that there's a better possiblity of people converting to Islam if they actually know what Islam is and saw firsthand the kind of people pious Muslims are. The fact that there are very few of them in SA makes this rather difficult.
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Also to your point about a "common" enemy, are you saying that the US is an enemy to Muslims? If you are, perhaps we should start a poll to see if other share your view, and if they do perhaps America should start a true war against Islam if they are, in fact, our enemy. I would hope this isnt case
I think I was rather specific when I mentioned what "the enemy" was, and no it was not the US itself, but its government. I think many people around the world are starting to realize that the US government's intentions aren't as pure as they might make them seem, otherwise they wouldn't have to lie to their own people in order to achieve political agendas. I have no problem with the people of the US, in fact some of my closest friends are Americans, but it's the ideaologies and policies of the government that I don't approve of, and neither do a lot of people.
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