Victim ordered to wed rapist

**YamahaR1** · 07-19-2005

Just wondering what my muslim friends think of this. I know many here don't read "western" news but this article was posted today and it certainly peaked my interest. From this story, it seems that the muslim world is divided. What are your thoughts?

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Victim ordered to wed rapist
By Shaikh Azizur Rahman
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
July 19, 2005

BOMBAY -- Hard-line Islamic clerics in a northern Indian village have declared that a woman's 10-year-old marriage was nullified when her father-in-law raped her -- and ordered the mother of five to marry the rapist.
The fatwa, or religious edict, was issued by Darool Uloom Deoband, South Asia's most powerful Islamic theological school known for promoting a radical brand of Islam that is said to have inspired the Taliban in Afghanistan.
The decision has outraged both Muslim and Hindu leaders and prompted a fierce debate that has dominated the front pages of national newspapers across India.
The fatwa ordered Imrana Ilahi, 28, to separate from her husband and treat him as her son.
"She had a physical relationship with her father-in-law, and it nullifies her marriage," said Mohammad Masood Madani, a cleric at the theological school. He said it made no difference whether -(censored)- . The village council then decreed that Mrs. Ilahi would have to marry her father-in-law.
Feminists and liberal Muslims reacted with fury, staging nationwide street protests.
But Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mulayam Singh on June 29 supported the fatwa, saying: "The decision of the Muslim religious leaders in the Imrana case must have been taken after a lot of thought. ... The religious leaders are all very learned and they understand the Muslim community and its sentiments."
The rape took place June 4 in the village of Charthawal in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh, when Mrs. Ilahi's husband, Noor Ilahi, was away.
When Mr. Ilahi, a brick kiln laborer, learned of the attack, the village court instructed him to divorce his wife.
But Mr. Ilahi, 32, told his wife: "My father is dirty and you are clean. I still love you and I cannot desert you." Mrs. Ilahi, with her husband and five children, sneaked out of Charthawal and took shelter in Kukra, the village of her parents.
Mrs. Ilahi received another rude shock when the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, the country's most influential Muslim umbrella organization, endorsed the punishment meted out by Darool Uloom Deoband.
"The fact that the woman was 'used' by her husband's blood relative makes her [unclean] for her husband and there is no way she can be allowed to live with him," the law board said.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...1059-2058r.htm

**minaz** · 07-20-2005

Allah gave humanity the perfect system in the qu'ran, which was sent to the prophet mohammed (peace be upon him) via Angel jibril/Gabriel.

**Mr. Baldy** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by YamahaR1

Yes, Allah is perfect.

Are you telling me that khilifah (and forgive me, I am not familiar with all terms here yet) is something that was actually written by the hand of Allah himself?

aslaam alkyum,

i was not aware allah had hands?

but yes allah designed, made, wrote, dictated, e.t.c the khilafah system. the proof is that it is perfect.

wa alykum aslaam

**YamahaR1** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by Mr. Baldy

aslaam alkyum,

i was not aware allah had hands?

I was not aware that allah didn't have hands. Have you seen allah?

**minaz** · 07-20-2005

I think I should expand a little if I may Mr. Baldy, no offence I know what you mean, but to non-Muslims such as YamahaR1 I have to because it makes your statement look arrogant. We don’t' blindly accept this is perfect, Islam itself after years of learning (for myself), I can see it is perfect and more importantly see that it can work in practise. Of course it can fail with nut heads like seen in certain members of the Taliban, but on the whole it's flawless. Anywho back to expanding on Baldy, like your religion YamahaR1, the injil/bible Allah/god gave it to Isa (a.s.)/Jesus as his word. However not that I want to start a whole offensive religious argument, but Muslims believe that the injil/bible was corrupted by mankind, therefore invalidating the religion as the true one - evidence in the Qu'ran, history itself and common sense - (to some degree no offence intended),
YamahaR1 I leave you with this quote from the Qu'ran: Surah 109
O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

**Mr. Baldy** · 07-20-2005

aslaam alkyum,

I was not aware that allah didn't have hands.

touche

wa alkyum aslaam

**YamahaR1** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by minaz

However not that I want to start a whole offensive religious argument, but Muslims believe that the injil/bible was corrupted by mankind, therefore invalidating the religion as the true one - .........

No offense taken. I have no problem with people who do not believe as I do. Where I take offense is when people want to force their religious beliefs on me. It's one of those "western" things that I'm rather proud of....freedom to believe and worship as I want.

**butterflylady** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz

"liberated " women don't want to wear the hijab in Bangladesh.They think its some type of oppression or seclusion.They discourage to wear it.

Especially since Bangladesh women fought for the liberation of their country with extreme bravery. It is only recently that the subject has even come up.

**minaz** · 07-20-2005

Where I take offense is when people want to force their religious beliefs on me

I'm quite shocked, would you mind expanding upon that at all please?

**YamahaR1** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by minaz

Allah gave humanity the perfect system in the qu'ran, which was sent to the prophet mohammed (peace be upon him) via Angel jibril/Gabriel.

This is where I have an issue. I don't think human beings are perfect. Maybe the prohet Mohammed injected some of his own thoughts while translating allah's wishes? I don't know. I wasn't there I'm not trying to be disrespectful to your religion at all....really I'm not. I just think human beings are imperfect and therefore, capable of mistakes and of injecting their own spin on things. I feel the same way about any book written by the hand of man.

And, just look at the various opinions on this board regarding the muslim stance on various issues. Is it because there are some who are not following their religion correctly 100%? Is it because different people interpret statements differently? Is it because some people follow things that make sense and use their noggin to make the best choice when something doesn't seem right? Is it all of the above?

It just seems to me that people tout their religious beliefs and follow them hard lined on some things and not others? Why is that? And, I'm talking about all religions...not just Islam.

I once read...."Is man made in the image of God or is God made in the image of man?"

**YamahaR1** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by minaz

I'm quite shocked, would you mind expanding upon that at all please?

Yes. In the U.S., we have people from all religious beliefs. I choose christianity, specifically Methodist. There are catholics, episcopalians, buddhists, church of scientology, Mormons, Jewish, atheists, and others. Here, we are free to worship how we wish.

From what I gather where Islam is concerned, it seems that muslims prefer a government that is reflective of their religious values. Well, that's great if everyone in your country believes as you do. Our forefathers left their home countries for various reasons...one was to have the freedom to worship as they wanted. Today, we maintain that. We believe in separation of church and state.

There is a big debate in our country regarding homosexual marriage. While I personally think that homosexuality is sinful, it is not illegal to be a homosexual in this country. And, if they choose a partner that they want to marry, then I do not think that my religious beliefs should trump their right to marry if they want. That would be forcing my religious beliefs and values on someone else. As long as health care coverage, and other rights given to heterosexual couples has legal ties with marriage, I can not deny this right to homosexuals even though I do not agree with their lifestyle.

Another example, if my child attends a public school, I do not want a teacher at that school openly discussing their religious beliefs with my children (unless they asked a question). I, as the parent, am responsible for the spirtual growth of my child. I do not want someone teaching them about theirs unless they are also teaching my child about all religions....I see a difference there between trying to convert someone and simply teaching tolerance and understanding.

Also, there is also much discussion about displaying the ten commandments in public places. Is it fair to display items such as this in a public facility where we all pay taxes to support it if we don't all believe it?

I hope I've explained it well enough.

**minaz** · 07-20-2005

Maybe the prohet Mohammed injected some of his own thoughts while translating allah's wishes?

Allah is the all powerful, all knowing, all wise, therefore he wouldn't give the prophecy down to any old joe bloggs. This is true in all his prophets, however the only people who inject their own thoughts are non-prophets, you just have to look at the bible Matthew, Mark, Luke and John naming a few for example

I'm not trying to be disrespectful to your religion at all....really I'm not.

Thankyou

**minaz** · 07-20-2005

Expanding on what you said about the freedom of the U.S., what is the impact over there or even on you about President Bush nominating John Roberts as a supreme court judge? I mean he isn't hardly a Thurgood Marshall

**YamahaR1** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by minaz

This is true in all his prophets, however the only people who inject their own thoughts are non-prophets, you just have to look at the bible Matthew, Mark, Luke and John naming a few for example

It's interesting that you would say that since the bible is very similar to what I've seen of the Koran. Just curious, have you ever read a bible? Have you read any of the scripture according to Mark, Luke or John?

**minaz** · 07-20-2005

lol I've been going to a catholic school for the past 7 years, and did Catholicism throughout and did it as one of my final subjects for gcse. Yes the bible is very similar, however the Qu'ran is just i dunno how to explain it - "bullet proof". As i stated before no religious hatred intended but when I studied the 4 gospels I couldn't come to grips with one saying (tell me if I’m wrong), one saying "colt" whilst other saying donkey, "eye for an eye" old testament "turn the other cheek" in new or other contradicting things. Of course they tend to agree overall but it's not accurate like the Qu'ran. Also the Qu'ran in my possession is the same one that was revealed to the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) over 1400 years ago. The bible however has been changed from part to part, and i don't mean in the terms of Darren Brown

I have many Catholic friends and like you some are religious, and like you we do debate and like you I enjoy 'trading' and wanting to gain knowledge of both our religions

**YamahaR1** · 07-20-2005

Originally Posted by minaz

Expanding on what you said about the freedom of the U.S., what is the impact over there or even on you about President Bush nominating John Roberts as a supreme court judge? I mean he isn't hardly a Thurgood Marshall

Well, I'd say the impact is viewed differently depending on where you fall in your political beliefs. The liberal community seems to be unhappy. The conservative community is happy. Nothing earth shattering there....I never expected Bush to pick anyone but a conservative. If Kerry was in office and appointed a Supreme Court nominee, I would've expected him to pick a liberal and then the conservatives and/or Republicans would find issues to complain about. As for me, I've been pretty disgusted with some of the rulings by the Supreme Court as of late, specifically where eminent domain is concerned so considering that my political beliefs are very conservative where fiscal policy is concerned, I am glad to see a conservative supreme court nominee. Personally, I like to see balance overall though. Only through representation from all shades of the political spectrum do you truly get the best solution.

**ahkar shams** · 07-20-2005

that article is just there to diss darul uloom deoband its not hard to beleive what people would say to take things down, and in that article says the "South Asia's most powerful Islamic theological school known for promoting a radical brand of Islam that is said to have inspired the Taliban in Afghanistan". dont you think the americans and the western world would be all over that,
in my opinion that article is a total waste of time and rubbish .

darul uloom deoband have great ulema and im sure they would handle the issue in the right and islamic manner

**Bittersteel** · 07-20-2005

Especially since Bangladesh women fought for the liberation of their country with extreme bravery. It is only recently that the subject has even come up.

well yes but they practically got no respect for Moulanas or Mullahs etc.They make fun of someone pious and religious.Teenagers have lost morality and has become almost westernized.

**Muhammad** · 07-20-2005

May I remind all members to stick to the topic Insha'Allaah, or make seperate threads.

Jazakallahu Khayr,

**Ansar Al-'Adl** · 07-20-2005

Hello Yamaha,

Originally Posted by YamahaR1

Maybe. Maybe not. My point is that you'll never get me to buy that Shariah is the end of evil of any kind.

The first point to note is what Br. Khattab expressed very nicely, that there is no country today which can claim to be accurately implementing the Shariah.

The second point to note is that before you can make a judgement about something you have to know what it is. If you don't understand Shariah law, then how can we expect you to "buy that Shariah is the end of evil of any kind." ??

Thirdly, the Shariah law is a divine system of law revealed by Our Creator who knows human beings better than they know themselves. Hence, He has revealed to them the most appropriate system of Law.

To begin your understanding of Shariah law, particularly the criminal law as that seems to be the subject of discussion, I would recommend the following link:
http://islamtoday.net/english/discov...&sub_cat_id=48

Are you telling me that khilifah (and forgive me, I am not familiar with all terms here yet) is something that was actually written by the hand of Allah himself?

The khilafa was a system decreed by God Himself, yes. However, the latter part of your comment is inaccurate due to lack of understanding the methods of revelation.

Originally Posted by Yamaha

Originally Posted by minaz

However not that I want to start a whole offensive religious argument, but Muslims believe that the injil/bible was corrupted by mankind, therefore invalidating the religion as the true one - .........

No offense taken.

And why should there be? :brother: The previous revelations were entrusted to their respective nations to preserve, but the challenge for followers of the Qur'an is not to preserve it (for God has promised to do so) but instead to spread its light to all humanity.

The Bible also speaks of the corruption:
Jeremiah 8:8 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

And for an Islamic perspective, check here:
http://islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1798

We'll save that discussion for the comparative religion section.

I have no problem with people who do not believe as I do. Where I take offense is when people want to force their religious beliefs on me. It's one of those "western" things that I'm rather proud of....freedom to believe and worship as I want.

Its not just a "western" thing. Its an Islamic thing too...
Qur'an 2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error.

This is where I have an issue. I don't think human beings are perfect. Maybe the prohet Mohammed injected some of his own thoughts while translating allah's wishes?

Such a notion would suggest that God was incapable of protecting His message. God clearly refutes such ideas in the Qur'an so that there may be no doubts:

69:43-48 (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds. And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart: Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).
But verily this is a Message for the God-fearing.

But let's say you wish to argue that Prophet Muhammad pbuh wrote the Qur'an himself. In response to such an argument, I suggest you read the article here:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...rticle08.shtml
I think you will find that site fascinating, insha'Allah.

Another good site is the following:
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/news/

I don't know. I wasn't there I'm not trying to be disrespectful to your religion at all....really I'm not. I just think human beings are imperfect and therefore, capable of mistakes and of injecting their own spin on things.

God does not pick any random human being for His divine revelation. The Prophets were the best servants of God ever created. They were infallible in the sense that they could commit no major sins, however, as human beings they may have made minor mistakes but they could do nothing but deliver their message to the people in the purest form. We can discuss this in more detail in the comparative religion section.

And, just look at the various opinions on this board regarding the muslim stance on various issues.

As the Qur'an says:
Say: "Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know?

Onviously you cannot consider the opinions of the average joe on equal footing with those who have studied Islam and are capable of supporting their views with the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Is it because there are some who are not following their religion correctly 100%? Is it because different people interpret statements differently? Is it because some people follow things that make sense and use their noggin to make the best choice when something doesn't seem right? Is it all of the above?

To be honest, most often it is due to ignorance.

I once read...."Is man made in the image of God or is God made in the image of man?"

I would say neither. The Creator is totally unlike and far greater than His creation.

From what I gather where Islam is concerned, it seems that muslims prefer a government that is reflective of their religious values. Well, that's great if everyone in your country believes as you do.

Actually, an Islamic government entails that minorities are protected and they are not harassed for their views.

As Dr. M. Hamidullah writes:

When the Prophet Mohammed settled down in Medina, he found there complete anarchy, the region having never known before either a State or a king to unite the tribes torn by internecine feuds. In just a few weeks, he succeeded in rallying all the inhabitants of the region into order. He constituted a city state, in which Muslims, Jews, pagan Arabs and also probably a small number of Christians, all entered into a statal organism by means of a social contract. The constitutional law of this first 'Muslim' State - which was the confederacy as a sequence of the multiplicity of the population groups - has come down to us in toto, and we read therein not only in clause 25: "to Muslims their religion, and to Jews their religion," or, "that there would be benevolence and justice," but even the unexpected passage in the same clause 25: "the Jews . . . are a community (in alliance) with - according Ibn Hisham and in the version of Abu-'Ubaid, a community (forming part) of - the believers (i.e., Muslims)." The very fact that, at the time of the constitution of this city-state, the autonomous Jewish villages acceded of their free will to the confederal State, and recognized Muhammad as their supreme political head, implies in our opinion that the non-Muslim subjects possessed the right of votes in the election of the head of the Muslim State, at least in so far as the political life of the country was concerned. (Hamidullah, Introduction to Islam, paragraphs 414-416)

And the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him said):

"No Jew is to be annoyed because of their Judaic faith."

"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)

For more info on the Islamic goverment refer to the following:
http://islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1994

For more info on the noble character of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), please refer to the following:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...24/index.shtml

Our forefathers left their home countries for various reasons...one was to have the freedom to worship as they wanted. Today, we maintain that. We believe in separation of church and state.

Note that such a view contradicts the Bible.

There is a big debate in our country regarding homosexual marriage. While I personally think that homosexuality is sinful, it is not illegal to be a homosexual in this country. And, if they choose a partner that they want to marry, then I do not think that my religious beliefs should trump their right to marry if they want. That would be forcing my religious beliefs and values on someone else.

Do you not believe that God was truthful when He said that homosexuality was a sin? Are you not disobeying God by discarding His decree to follow the whims of society?

As long as health care coverage, and other rights given to heterosexual couples has legal ties with marriage, I can not deny this right to homosexuals even though I do not agree with their lifestyle.

Even if God commands you?

Another example, if my child attends a public school, I do not want a teacher at that school openly discussing their religious beliefs with my children (unless they asked a question). I, as the parent, am responsible for the spirtual growth of my child. I do not want someone teaching them about theirs unless they are also teaching my child about all religions....I see a difference there between trying to convert someone and simply teaching tolerance and understanding.

You have suprisingly secular views. Do you realize that such a view necessitates that all religions are false? If even one religion is true then it must be preached to the world.

Nevertheless, I agree that we must respect the views of others. However, we should distinguish between respecting other views and disobeying the commands of God.

It's interesting that you would say that since the bible is very similar to what I've seen of the Koran. Just curious, have you ever read a bible? Have you read any of the scripture according to Mark, Luke or John?

I know the question wasn't asked to me, but yes I have. And I would like to mention that the Bible is fundamentally a different type of religious scripture since it was inspired while the Qur'an was revealed word-for-word.

Originally Posted by ButterflyLady

Especially since Bangladesh women fought for the liberation of their country with extreme bravery. It is only recently that the subject has even come up.

Hi Butterflylady (welcome back

)
That's the whole paradox of liberation. It is the hijaab that liberates a woman from being enslaved to the desires of society.

For more info on Hijaab please read here.

To understand how Islam has liberated women, please read here and here.

**YamahaR1** · 07-21-2005

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

Do you not believe that God was truthful when He said that homosexuality was a sin? Are you not disobeying God by discarding His decree to follow the whims of society?.....................................
You have suprisingly secular views. Do you realize that such a view necessitates that all religions are false? If even one religion is true then it must be preached to the world.

First thank you for the information you shared and the links. Very informative.

Second, while homosexuality is a sin by my religious views, I am not the one committing the act. Another person may not view it as a sin. It is not place to judge another nor force my religious beliefs on them.

My views do not necessitate that all religions are false. My views are that there is no religion that is "better" than another. From my stand point, as long as someone is living a life to the best of their ability in a way that God would be pleased, then that is good enough for me. I don't care if they call themselves a muslim, a buddhist, a christian, etc. I don't even think that someone has to be a subscriber to an organized religion to live a life that God would approve of. You can be a "good" person without being part of a particular religion. I know that prayer said 5 times a day is something that muslims participate in. I know that many Catholics say the rosary daily. But following religious ritual, in my opinion, doesn't mean that someone is living a life that God would approve of. I've seen plenty of people who call themselves "religious"....they show up for church services, etc. and then walk right out and start sinning again. They put up a good show but at the end of the day, they think of noone but themselves. Then, I've seen others who have never entered a church, who may not pray regularly, who bend over backwards to help their fellow man. They show love, not hate to those who are different. They are honest, law abiding citizens. I just don't buy that God does not look upon them with pride and love for the good works that they do simply because they do not follow some religious edict to the letter of the law. And, because I believe we are all God's children and that God is forgiving, I simply do not buy that God would ever turn away anyone simply because they were/were not part of organized religion in some form or fashion.