This is why Turkey are part of the EU. They have more sense than the others.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Million Protesters Gather In Istanbul
Updated: 17:52, Sunday April 29, 2007
Up to a million protesters have gathered in Istanbul accusing the government of planning an Islamist state and demanding it withdraw its presidential candidate.
Despite the Istanbul protests and a threat from the powerful army to intervene in the election, Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul, architect of Turkey's EU membership drive, said he would remain the ruling AK Party's candidate for head of state.
The protesters flooded the streets of Turkey's largest city to priase the army and denounce Gul and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, whose AK Party enjoys a huge parliamentary majority, as a threat to a secular order separating state and religion.
"Turkey is secular and will remain secular," they chanted.
"Turkey is under threat from the AK Party leadership. We will not be able to express our thoughts like this if they stay in power," said protester Cigdem Yilmaz, 22, a student.
Top Turkish businessmen called for early parliamentary elections, which the AK party would appear well placed to win.
Many secularists are worried by Gul's Islamist past and the fact his wife wears the Muslim headscarf banned in universities and public offices.
But the AK Party, which has vigorously pressed liberal reforms and European Union membership ambitions, since election in 2002, denies any secret agenda.
What these people don't realise is that they were once upon a time a group of nomads who had no land in the world whatsoever, yet Allaah gave them honor through Islaam - to the extent where they were the super power of the world for over 5 centuries.
Yet when they rebelled against their ownselves - they lost all their glory and honor, they turned away from the One who gave them honor in the first place.. to the extent where they lost their honor, their strength and became of the weakest of nations in the world. That's because Allaah gave them the honor when they turned to Him in full submission, but once they turned away - they lost all that.. because without a doubt only Allaah raises and lowers a people.
This is why we are in the position we are in today, because we have turned away from the religion of Allaah, we have turned our backs to enjoining the good and forbidding the evil. Yet through Allaah's Mercy, we are facing trials because we are turning back to Allaah, because one can only gain victory through trials and steadfastness, through patience. Once again the ummah will rise and Allaah will raise us once again - the same way the muslims of the times before, that's a promise from our Lord. May Allaah keep us steadfast, ameen.
There is a prophecy on this, the Romans will capture Istanbul / Constantinople - yet it will be recaptured near the final hour. Alot of the signs are already passing infront of our own eyes.
PS: If there are any turkish brothers and sisters, i don't mean to offend you or anything. I just wanted to explain that all honor comes from Allaah, and He will give it back to us once we are worthy of it. And this is why we face these trials today - Allaah is testing us to see if we truelly are worthy of it. Inshaa Allaah we will be soon enough.
The "Romans" haven't captured Istanbul. The Turkish muslims want free speech, a freedom to "express their thoughts" and dread being an Islamic state. Just take a look at Iran. Going around arresting people for not wearing their headscarf, for showing a bit of hair, for styling their hair...
The Turkish like freedom and they know that there isn't freedom in an Islamic state.
I've been to Alanya in Turkey and they were the nicest people you could meet. They were laid back, happy, very friendly and seemed to get on with everyone, non-muslim or not. When it did come to the time to pray though, they would do it. They were as devoted to God as anyone else but the difference was that they were tolerant of other cultures and other people regardless of faith. It really is a shame that non-Turkish muslims aren't like that.
They haven't joined it yet? Well it won't be long. It's being considered and they're not far away from the membership. I would have no problem with them joining as I do actually like the Turkish.
islam came as something strange and will leave as something strange.
although it is inshaAllah not yet about to leave .
may Allah forgive all those brothers and give them guidance.
they have chosen to follow their desires and man-made laws.
they have looked down at islam and thus looked down at the sunnah, and jannah. may Allah guide them
Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."
this reminded me of these ayyats of surah baqara... may ALlah guide them.
ya Allah please guide our brothers...
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
They might be. They just need to drop the human rights abuses.
Still, Good going turkey. a drop of sanity in a world thats utterly nuts.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
This is why Turkey are part of the EU. They have more sense than the others.
i take periodic sanity breaks from the news. did i miss something? last i knew turkey was still not good enough for the EU.
if the turkish people overwhelmingly wanted a government more in tune with islam (not even a shariah state), the military would move to prevent it from happening.
how democratic is that?
(personally i am convinced that only a secular government is tolerable, but i am not turkish.)
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
i take periodic sanity breaks from the news. did i miss something? last i knew turkey was still not good enough for the EU.
if the turkish people overwhelmingly wanted a government more in tune with islam (not even a shariah state), the military would move to prevent it from happening.
how democratic is that?
(personally i am convinced that only a secular government is tolerable, but i am not turkish.)
I was wrong with that bit. Turkey aren't far away from the EU but they obviously need to sort a few things out first. The Turkish want to be a part of the EU. Turkey could be a model for other muslim countries including the future-Iraq.
assalamu alaika who follow righteous guidance (can someone teach me full sentence inshaAllah, jazakAllahu khair)
forgive me if i misunderstood but
why do you think it insanity for people to want an islamic state?
whats wrong?
have you researched on an islamic state?
No you dont misunderstand. I am utterly against a Islamic state. (also against a christian state or any religious state).
Islamic States, (ones that cant seperate religion from govenment) are brutal & repressive. Just look into history. Protestant Puritan England, Catholic Spain of the inquisition, Islamic Sudan of 1880, Islamic Afganistan of the 1990's. All horrible examples of what religion can do when men claim divine inspiration for their laws of state.:enough!:
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
No you dont misunderstand. I am utterly against a Islamic state. (also against a christian state or any religious state).
Islamic States, (ones that cant seperate religion from govenment) are brutal & repressive. Just look into history. Protestant Puritan England, Catholic Spain of the inquisition, Islamic Sudan of 1880, Islamic Afganistan of the 1990's. All horrible examples of what religion can do when men claim divine inspiration for their laws of state.:enough!:
what about islamic makkah of 650?
please research on what a true islamic state is, then let me know if you mind it
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
please research on what a true islamic state is, then let me know if you mind it
Well as so far as Forign policy:Michael the Syrian describes how the first Omayyad Caliph Muawiya, who took power in 661, sacked and pillaged Cyprus and then established his domination by a “great massacre”. In the capture of Istakhar (Persia), 40,000 Iranians were slaughtered. Indeed, Anatolia, Mesopotamia, Syria, Iraq, Iran suffered the same.Tripoli was taken by the sword.
K Armstrongs Pro-Islam book "Islam- a short history"
"Despite these victorys the soldiers spent summer fighting and winter far from home, they were taking less plunder....in 656 the discontent culminated in mutiny...uthman was assassinated" Civil Strife
Which led to a 5 year civil war, including such fights as the battle of the camel, which Aisha attended. Ali after this handed out jobs to his supporters.
Muawiyya in Damascus hated the new state and had himself at the threat of violence proclaimed caliph in Jerusalam.
The Kharajites, the first "extremists" were "persecuted" by Ali, which cost him support and ended in his death by assassination.
Armstrong again. "...and summon all true muslims to join them in jihad for higher islamic standards.....others took a ...neurtal stance...appauled by the murderous divisions
Freedom: At this time the Caliphate delt compassionatly with those subjected to Muslim rule. If they payed the Jiza they would remain safe. If not.......
List of the pact of Umar here http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html
Equality: Muawiyyahs reign bloodily restored unity and from 661 dhimmis were ousted from their top posts. He also began in earnest the slaughter of apostates. His court developed a rich and luxiourious lifestyle indistinguisable from any other ruling class.
The Early Islamic state, based on religious laws, was not a place I would like to have lived. Brutal, wartorn and Intolerant.
Over in England in 650 It was pretty much the same. Romano-British endlessly fighting and persecuting, burning at the stake and wiping out towns. All in the name of Christianity as the old Saxon and Pictish religions were annhialated.
The 7th Century, a mad mad world, but its a long time ago now. Time for mankind to move on.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
What these people don't realise is that they were once upon a time a group of nomads who had no land in the world whatsoever, yet Allaah gave them honor through Islaam - to the extent where they were the super power of the world for over 5 centuries.
Yet when they rebelled against their ownselves - they lost all their glory and honor, they turned away from the One who gave them honor in the first place.. to the extent where they lost their honor, their strength and became of the weakest of nations in the world. That's because Allaah gave them the honor when they turned to Him in full submission, but once they turned away - they lost all that.. because without a doubt only Allaah raises and lowers a people.
There is a prophecy on this, the Romans will capture Istanbul / Constantinople - yet it will be recaptured near the final hour. Alot of the signs are already passing infront of our own eyes.
Shalom,
Could you please explain these concerns I had with your post:
1. Do you measure whether G-d is with a nation, by how powerful their military is as a "super power"?
In the begining arabic world was traitor. the ottoman empire was big and strong. The arabs made deals with the west and britain.today sekularic is good.
When turkey tries to apply for membership of the European union, they write all sorts of stories explaining the problems in turkey and why they should not be accepted, one of those reasons was that: they are undemocratic, every 10 Tyear or so the army intervenes to stop a democratically elected religious party. Now the army made treaths to do it again, and some people came on the street protesting, and the European press applauds them???
the government was elected democratically and their aim was very well known. Just because there are some people protesting the streets we shouldn't throw down that government. The article says a million people, but I've seen other articles speaking of "hundred thousands" Either way, in a city of aproximitly 10 to 15 million people, that is still a minority. If the goverment truly messed up, we'll see that in the next elections, for now, we shouldn't be so cautious. What exactly is it that is so dangerous? what has this party done to agrevate so many people? As far as I know, all they try to do is rectify the many anti-religious rules. So guess what, they are actually helping secularity! An anti-religious government (=negative towards religion) is not secular (=neutral towards religion).
Last edited by Abdul Fattah; 04-30-2007 at 02:37 AM.
An anti-religious government (=negative towards religion) is not secular (=neutral towards religion).
i agree. i also agree on the hypocrisy. if the people of turkey elected an islam-friendly government, the military would step in. some democracy.
i don't think a shariah state has been proposed by anybody, has it?
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
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Keep it up Turkey, you know what's best
May Allaah keep us steadfast, ameen.
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