Planned to take out 7 countries!!

That was the plan. That's what's lost in the current debate over the Iraq war, we were supposed to already be gone and on to the next place. It was supposed to be a remaking of the entire middle east. Seeing how this turned out, I doubt we'll see any more pre-emptive regime changes.

format_quote Originally Posted by August

That was the plan. That's what's lost in the current debate over the Iraq war, we were supposed to already be gone and on to the next place. It was supposed to be a remaking of the entire middle east. Seeing how this turned out, I doubt we'll see any more pre-emptive regime changes.

Why is America obsessed with spreading their ideology violently?? I though you were peace love people

format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher

Why is America obsessed with spreading their ideology violently?? I though you were peace love people

The ideology is supposed to be freedom. The theory, which I don't agree with by the way, is that the mere existence of dictatorships is a threat to U.S. national security. In this view, containment is a relic, and tyranical regimes should be toppled by force so that democratic pro-U.S. governments can be formed. It was also believed that after Afgainstan and Iraq had established democratic governments, the people of Iran would rise up and overthrow their government. Obviously, the entire idea I have described has failed and will not be a part of U.S. foreign policy in the future.

format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi

I wouldn't go as far as to consider it a plan. It was a theory of cause and effect. If Saddam Hussein's regime was taken down and a successful Iraqi state emerged with democratic values, which doesn't mean Jeffersonian democracy, it would cause other nations under tyrannical regimes to long for their own freedom. The plan was to take down Saddam Hussein, the theory was that this would cause a chain reaction in the region. However, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a grand scheme all thought out. That was the problem with this whole fiasco, it wasn't thought out at all.

That's the problem with the US. They think everyone wants to over throw their leader. You even whisper over throwing Bush and the NSA will be all over you like bees on honey. Bunch of hypocrites.

There's a youtube video of one of the politician from TX thinking of running for president, he's the ony one who voted against the war on iraq. And he said on national tv that we used to be friends with osama and saddam.

And now lets see how wonderful george the retard is ....

George W. Bush and his lying friends
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUDmMGHzoXE

Bush Caught Lying About September 11t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60

Democracy only helped the "Islamic Extremist" as the west calls them. All the dictators are not islamic but when democracy comes the Islamic people can run which leads to them coming into power. Hamas is a great example for the failed democracy. Hamas won and the entire world took there money.

format_quote Originally Posted by Islamicboy

Democracy only helped the "Islamic Extremist" as the west calls them. All the dictators are not islamic but when democracy comes the Islamic people can run which leads to them coming into power. Hamas is a great example for the failed democracy. Hamas won and the entire world took there money.

It's called hypocracy!

Ruggedtouch
I was not talking about the money. I was more reffering to the fact that America went to Iraq to bring democracy. Many people in middle east hate america which will lead to the victory of groups such as Hamas. So shouldn't Americans not want democracy in middle east. Because the claim it will bring stability and "Moslems" will accept west just isnt true.

Absolutely. Just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean the U.S. is forced to have political relations with them.

But your president said differently he said "i notice democractic nations dont fight each other".

format_quote Originally Posted by Ruggedtouch

Umm, no. It wasn't their money to begin with. When Hamas won the “Palestinian” election, much of the world acted with a conscience. Much of the world realized that the only U.N. sponsored welfare state simply wasn’t acting in accordance with standards of behavior that warranted a continuing shower of Western welfare money.

Why not accept responsibility for your actions? If Moslems are going to elect a terrorist government, one that is openly hostile to us, calls for our murder and destruction, you shouldn’t be surprised when we say enough is enough.

Simple really.

Palestine was doing just fine without the aide of the west. That is before the west decided to kick all the jews out of their land and into this tiny little land. Then they gave this group of people most advanced weapons to do as they please without anyone to question them. What Palestine gets in aid is pennies compared to what Israel gets from US alone. Western powers cried democracy and when people made voted for their leader, the west cried again cuz it wasn’t somebody that would lick their feet. Palestine is under occupation whether you believe it or not and the resistance will continue. Have you forgotten your own history, who was it that said “give me liberty or give me death”? Israel scum are hold all the tax revenue that belongs to the Palestinians and all the blockades, checkpoints and walls and what not is killing the economy as well. With all that alone, they still could survive without your aide. I think it’s you that need to wake up and smell the coffee, US is a pathetic servant of AIPAC which is a jewish lobby that rules America. Only terrorists’ gov’t here is Israel and the terrorists are those that support such an oppressive regime that is sitting like a leech on Palestinian land. You shouldn’t be surprised when Muslims say enough is enough and get up one day to kill every firkin terrorists in the Middle East from Zionist scum to western kuffar and kick them all out of that land.

That is true, democratic governments are less likely to fight each other, but that doesn't mean that is always the case or that means all democratic governments have the same goals.

But the saudi kingdom and USA seem to be good friends. I believe its all about who bows down to the USA.

Personally, I don’t believe the U.S. invasion of Iraq had anything to do with hamas being elected to political office. Hamas is virulently anti-semitic, (anti-Jew), and their election to office has to be considered a reflection of the goals and aspirations of a large body of the population. Hamas has announced its goal is the total destruction of the state of Israel. They’re not fit to lead a self destructive people out of decades of self hate and self victimization.

If you think the shelling prompted by the terrorist “Palestinian” government will stop before the last Israeli child is driven by submachine gun fire into the Dead Sea, you're selling something.

I don’t believe anything will bring stability to the Palestinians. They are their own worst enemy. Arafat stole from them, cheated them and sold their souls so his wife could have a luxurious Western lifestyle. Now they’ve elected Arafat 2nd.

They got what they wanted, now they get what they deserve.

Yes, Sometimes i wonder what hamas goals are. I hope it is to spread Tawheed and the messege of islam. As far as them being Anti-jew will to be fair when twin towers were hit most Americans and westerns became Anti-muslims so it just goes to show. If you are attacked by a group of people you might go agiasn't them. Also I met many palestnian (muslims) who dont have problem with the jews.

U.S. invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with Hamas being elected. But just trying to show you bringing democracy in the parts of the world that hate U.S. will not be in american interest. Majority of the Iraq is anti american also recent afganistan northern alliance protest show another story of hate agiasnt america. So after America does leave these countries and elections are held most likly anti american government will take place...

There’s no need to wonder what their goals are, it’s in their charter. It’s kind’ like a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. (<-- There's that word again -ed.) Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

Ami Isseroff

It seems odd to me that Pal/Arabs are whining about land lost to Israel during the various Arab initiated wars.

Under most historical interpretation of Islamic law, lands conquered rightfully belong to the conquerors. From what I know, Muslim scholars have differed over time on whether this rule applies only to Muslim conquest or that of all men, but there are certainly those who believe (obviously, considering issues like Palestine and Spain) that lands conquered by Muslims become irrevocably Muslim, whereas no such nicety exists for lands conquered by infidels.

It's archaic and most of the modern world has moved past feudal relics like this, but well, most isn't all.

Just because someone quote islam and jihad in everyother word they say in speech does not make them islamic. Hamas may be one of the government closest to islam but not islamic. Hamas does not rule through shariah first they need to apply shariah to the lands they belong in then Allah S.W.T. inshallah will give them victory.


By putting millions of troops and walking into iraqi homes beating them up and etc.. will not bring peace it will only bring more hatred and anger agiasn't the USA and its allies. I do not even know the best solution for USA as far as i see they are screwed in Iraq. If they leave all they did was create war and leave but if they stay more americans will die and more hatred will grow towards americans. Not all american soldiers are good people even iraqis military is not filled with good people. These days American military is taking criminals ex-cons which is leading it destruction. Most of the civilians that were kidnapped and tortured for no reason and let go. Why? So, going into homes and raping, beating, killing a group of people wont solve the problem.

format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI

I will say this, the US has never attacked another country without reason or being provoked. I challenge anyone to prove that wrong, dont bother with Iraq, because Saddam threatened the US many times over, and dont bother with Afghan either because they had a chance to escape war and they choose to side with those who attacked the US. The countries that are occupied are occupied because of their own actions

careful what you wish for, your own politicans are saying the opposite.

Who gave saddam power and supported him?
This whole was based on lies of WMD and faulty "evidence"

who gave bin laden support to fight russia in afghan?
He wants yo out of his land, he has no interest in your hightowers, and the verdict is still out as to who did 9-11

was pearld harbor attacked by japanese or another false flag?
look up false falgs

what did vietnam do?
what did korea do?
what did a poor country like somalia do?

and now US is singing the same tune for iran he did for iraq.

you might find these videos interesting...

Bush speaks before Iran war as he spoke before Iraq war

George W. Bush and his lying friends

Bush Caught Lying About September 11th

NYPD Officer Tesimony - 911

911 conspiracy vs reality

9/11 Mysteries: Part 1