According to today's Independent, Muhammed Abdul Bari, the secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, issued a direct challenge to the fundamentalists.
"Those who seek to deliberately kill or main innocent people are the enemies of all of us," he said.
Mr Bari said: "It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
I agree. If anyone knows of a terror plot, they should tell the police to protect the public (if talking the person out of it does not work). The people who carry out (or conspire to carry out) such indiscriminate killing are not acting Islamically, they are acting like monsters.
However, there are genuine Muslim political grievances that need to be addressed. More Muslims need to get into politics for starters. Though I tend to dislike politics in general, I have to admit that there have been many efforts by major political parties to behave more sensitively towards Muslims domestically - but a lot of the support for terrorism comes from Muslims who feel, fairly or unfairly, that their genuine grievances about international matters fall on deaf ears. Everyone has a role to play.
it would be evil to not agree to that, but at the same time we must understand that whilst not agreeing or helping such evil designs we musnt, in our zeal to avoid such brutality, go to an equally evil person who equally terrorises and kills people if not in a far worser manner.
i hope you get what i mean...
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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but a lot of the support for terrorism comes from Muslims who feel,
define terrorism.If you are talking about Iraqi militants attacking US forces we don't regard that as terrorism,though we regard the Sunni vs Shia killings as terrorism though very few condemnations come.and also we regard the al-Qaida activities against Iraqis as terrorism.
Last edited by Bittersteel; 07-05-2007 at 03:24 PM.
"Those who seek to deliberately kill or main innocent people are the enemies of all of us," he said.
Mr Bari said: "It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
Agreed. I support all efforts to stop this terrorism and murder of innocent civilians being commited by zionists and other kuffars in Muslim lands.
According to today's Independent, Muhammed Abdul Bari, the secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, issued a direct challenge to the fundamentalists.
I frankly think these events at least recent ones are perpetrated by your government England had/s a long history of being a colonial state, that stops at nothing to meet its desired result. You have had generals open fire on peaceful demonstrations in India killing hundreds of women and children, I have no reason to believe, that at least this very last so-called attack was nothing but propagandist BS to conform to the tides. I think we are headed toward world war three... there is no more room for communication when these ploys are made to destroy more Muslims lives externally and internally.... I think the sheikh is loaning credence to these propagandists by making such a speech.
my two cents...
peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Bukhari hadith 3:624 Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."
Bukhari hadith 3:624 Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."
Bukhari hadith 3:624 Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."
Greetings, Mustafa
I am not sure how the hadith relates to Muhammed Abdul Bari'a statement.
Can you elaborate you point of view?
Do you see the 'oppressing brother' in the hadith as the Muslim who resorts to terrorism acts? If so, how do prevent him from committing such acts?
(I am assuming the term 'brother' in the hadith relates to a fellow Muslim, therefore I don't think you are speaking about oppressing non-Muslims)
Or have I misunderstood you?
Peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
The hadith does not specify who is being oppressed, but it specifies that the oppressor is a Muslim. (Assuming that by brother it means brother in faith).
So it doesn't really matter if he is oppressing Muslims or not, both are crimes.
yes, result of state terrorism which must be stopped at all cost!
especially...
US in Iraq, afghan
UK in Iraq , afghan
Israel in palestine
India in kashmir
Ethopian (backed by US) in somalia
I understand the point you are making. Atrocities and war crimes are being committed in these places.
Whether or not they can be compared to terrorism acts such as suicide bombings, is debatable.
Whether the above wars/occupations drive people to become desperate enough to resort to suicide bombings, would also be worth a debate.
But the point Muhammed Abdul Bari is making (in my mind), is a very different one:
He makes the statement that "It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
This is specifically with regards to the actions by Muslim terrorists, which have happened in the UK.
Muhammed Abdul Bari statement does not relate to atrocities committed by other people in other places - he is concerned about the Islamic conduct of Muslims.
Please note that he is not condoning war crimes/terrorism acts/atrocities committed by non-Muslims. He is just not mentioning them.
His concern is for the 'Islamic duty' of every Muslim.
Do you agree with his statement about the duty of every Muslims?
Do you want to share if and how you voted in the poll?
Peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
The hadith does not specify who is being oppressed, but it specifies that the oppressor is a Muslim. (Assuming that by brother it means brother in faith).
So it doesn't really matter if he is oppressing Muslims or not, both are crimes.
Thank you Malaikah
Mustafa stated that "The hadith captures [his] point of view."
From the hadith he gave I wasn't sure what exactly his point of view was with regards to this thread.
That's why I asked Mustafa for clarification of his view.
I am sure he will reply when he returns to this thread.
peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I am not sure how the hadith relates to Muhammed Abdul Bari'a statement.
Can you elaborate you point of view?
Do you see the 'oppressing brother' in the hadith as the Muslim who resorts to terrorism acts? If so, how do prevent him from committing such acts?
(I am assuming the term 'brother' in the hadith relates to a fellow Muslim, therefore I don't think you are speaking about oppressing non-Muslims)
Or have I misunderstood you?
Peace
glo,
To quote you from below where it seems that you captured the central point:
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
But the point Muhammed Abdul Bari is making (in my mind), is a very different one:
He makes the statement that "It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
Thank you for insisting on waiting for my personal reply to my post to avoid the possibility of putting words into my mouth that I hadn't intended.
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
The hadith below captures my point of view.
Bukhari hadith 3:624 Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."
The point is that we should help our Muslim brother or sister if he/she is being oppressed by stopping the one who is oppressing (killing, raping, torturing, stealing from, etc.) the Muslim. Likewise, if our Muslim brother or sister is oppressing (killing, raping, torturing, stealing from, etc.) someone else (whether or not that other person is a Muslim), then we are obligated to stop him/her from his oppression.
Intentional killing of innocent people by flying a plane into a building or setting off a bomb in a public bus or in a subway/train or in a resturaunt is oppression. Setting off a roadside IED when a Humvee carrying soldiers passes by that accidentally kills civilians in an occupied country is unfortunate, but it is not oppression.
How would I stop a Muslim from terrorist acts? First, I would (and already have) talk to Muslims who support such terroristic acts such as suicide or car bombing of civilians and try to convince them that this act is un-Islamic. If they insist upon carrying out the act and if I was knowledgeable of their plan, then I would report it to the authorities. I would be guilty of the same act if I did not do my best to stop it.
As I stated in my initial post the hadith captures MY personal point of view on Muhammed Abdul Bari's statement.
Thank you for clarifying, Mustafa. I think I understand now.
Do you think that publically condemning these acts (as Muhammed Abdul Bari suggest) will help in 'preventing the terrorists from oppressing others'?
Peace
We have no control over the effectiveness of our actions. We plant the seed, but it is Allah that makes the plant to grow. I think in the long run that this can make a difference to change people's heart.
Sahih Muslim hadith 16 I heard the Messenger of Allah as saying: He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do it, then he should do it with his tongue; and if he has not strength enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhor it) from his heart and that is the least of faith.
To abhor an abomination means to me that at the very least one wouldn't be joining in the act.
To modify an abonimation with the tongue means to me that one is voicing opposition and that one's words may convince another to stop what he is doing.
To modify an abomination with the hand means to me taking action and physically interfering to prevent a wrong from occuring.
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