How far can freedom of speech go?
By Jon Silverman
Legal Analyst
Four Islamic radicals have been jailed for their part in a protest in London against the publication of Danish cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad.
But where does the case leave our right to freedom of speech?
The protesters gathered outside the Danish Embassy in London
Given the gravity of the offences of which they were convicted, the sentences on four men jailed for their part in protests against the publication of anti-Muslim cartoons are not excessive.
Three of the four received six years each for soliciting murder. The maximum penalty for the offence is life imprisonment.
The fourth man got four years for stirring up racial hatred. The maximum under the Public Order Act is seven years.
Three months ago, the former Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, talked of a need "to step up our game" against those who preached and advocated extremism.
Given the amount of inflammatory rhetoric, there have been very few prosecutions James Libson
Mishcon de Reya
The latest sentences, coming soon after long jail terms imposed on three men convicted of spreading extremist material through a website, can be seen as a judicial reflection of that commitment.
Comparisons with another case, in which five white supremacists were convicted of conspiracy to stir up racial hatred, show that judges appear to be fairly consistent in dealing with this crime.
In the earlier case, heard at the Old Bailey in October 2005, the men got jail terms ranging from one year to five years. But they pleaded guilty and are likely to have benefited from a discount.
Nevertheless, such trials raise issues of freedom of speech and whether juries are biased against Muslim defendants.
The language used by some of the cartoon protesters may have been ethically unacceptable but where was the evidence that it was intended to incite murder? Reza Kazim
Islamic Human Rights Commission
Those who have concerns point to the acquittal in 2006 of the BNP leader, Nick Griffin, also charged with inciting racial hatred.
James Libson, head of litigation at the firm, Mishcon de Reya, said that, paradoxically, perceptions of unfairness might be addressed if there were more prosecutions of Muslim extremists.
"Given the amount of inflammatory rhetoric, there have been very few prosecutions. They have tended to be where there have been threats to kill, so juries are more likely to convict.
"If there are more prosecutions of people, such as preachers, who incite hatred and violence, I think there will be a greater variety of verdicts."
'Double standards'
The Griffin case differed from that of the Muslim protesters in that his rhetoric was deployed in a private meeting of party activists rather than at a public gathering.
He also argued that he was attacking a religion, not a race.
Three of the Muslim protesters, Mizanur Rahman, Umran Javed and Abdul Muhid, as well as facing charges under the 1986 Public Order Act, were also charged with soliciting murder under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act.
Mizanur Rahman was the last of the cartoon demonstrators to be tried
Reza Kazim of the Islamic Human Rights Commission sees double standards at work.
"The language used by some of the cartoon protesters may have been ethically unacceptable but where was the evidence that it was intended to incite murder? Whereas, we know that BNP rhetoric has led directly to attacks on Muslims and others."
Islamophobia
Barrister and academic, Dr Amir Majid, said there had to be limits on freedom of speech and he was not opposed to prosecuting those who made threats to kill.
"But, in the current climate of heightened concern about terrorism, I am worried that the Attorney-General may succumb to pressure to authorise prosecutions in cases which do not warrant it. And that could provoke strong resentment."
At the demonstrations against publication of the cartoons, there was other behaviour which is likely to lead to greater use of the criminal law in future.
Flag burning and dressing as a suicide bomber is regarded by the police as highly provocative and it is likely that powers under the Terrorism Act 2006 to remove material from websites and the application of anti social behaviour orders will be used more frequently.
Reza Kazim argues that existing powers are quite strong enough and that politicians are stoking up Islamophobia.
Not for the first time, the boundary between freedom of speech and security is proving a legal and political minefield.
I wonder how many on this forum have actually seen the cartoons.
I remember on in particular. It was a drawing by the artist of himself, drawing something with one hand and covering it with the other.
I thought it was one of the more clever things I have seen.
To me, the most offensive was one added by a cleric to incite hatred.
So which one of those two men violated “Freedom of Speech”?
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In that case, I doubt it's a peaceful demonstration and I'm pretty sure, flyers like 'Kill the west' or 'All Kuffars go to hell' appear somewhere in the crowd.
Anyway, that is not Islamophobia, if there were some Nazi marching in the streets yelling 'Heil Hitler', I think they will also end up in jail !
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
I would disagree with the 'stirring racial hatred' conviction. I think such concepts are just too vague and are a slippery slope. But calling for murder is a completely different matter, which warrants legal intervention from the side of the authorities.
Not sure about that... I just watched this documentary about these two little girls who were pretty much raised as racist white supremacists who sing songs everywhere. Their band is called 'Prussian Blue' LOL./
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Everyone is entitled to voice there opinion and no one was physically harmed.
While that is currently true under the law, I really don't agree with it. I don't believe anybody should be entitled to lie (unless lying would avert physical harm) and I don't believe anybody should be entitled to offend or upset another person, let alone a whole race or religious group.
I don't believe Hitler should have had the legal right to voice his hatred of the Jews. Do you?
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
People should leave things as thoughts....just coz a person thinks bad of anoyther doesnt mean they should go advertising it...freedom of speech is restricted and should be. You can THINK what you want...dun need to say it
who gave it to him? the people did...ppl of all race...the jews gave it too him.in the face of pure evil power...u need a backup..just as mighty...
as the law goes...equal and opposite reaction=0 force...right?
the world at the time gave him the power...well, they didnt place it in his hand, but he surely obtained it...and with ease...and he used it...wat were they expecting him to do...save it for a rainy day?
did he use freedom of speech to obtain his power? i dno...it wud make a gud hsty essay question thats for sure...but no...
there was no such thing as freedom of speech bak then.thats why noone could stop him. he wasnt free with his speech...he just took over the forum...
i feel like im in a histy tutorial.
"'Cause I hear the whispered words
In your masterpiece beautiful
You speak the unspeakable through
I love you too"
The protesters were 100 % idiots. When someone glorifies terrorism and calls to it, it must end in prison.
I very much agree.
As a muslim i went down to see the protest, what i saw and heard was shocking.
From the young ones to the oldest people shouting in the name allah they will carry out bombings, beheadings etc... With kids around it wasn't nice to see nor hear what some people who call themself muslims saying.
Yes it was wrong for the drewings but there is no need for people to be wearing bullet proof vest which made some other brothers and the general public feel unconfitable.
People should leave things as thoughts....just coz a person thinks bad of anoyther doesnt mean they should go advertising it...freedom of speech is restricted and should be. You can THINK what you want...dun need to say it
Indeed.
I have no doubt in my mind that if everyone in this world emulated the character of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) then the world would be a much happier place. A few things that he said:
Whosoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day,then let him speak good or remain silent.
Whoever can guarantee for me (that he will guard) what is between his jaws (tongue) and what is between his legs (private parts), I will guarantee for him Paradise.
Sufyaan Ibn 'Abdillaah (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported that he said: O Messenger of Allaah, tell me of a matter that I may hold fast onto.” He (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “Say: ‘I believe in Allaah’, and then remain steadfast (on that).” I said: 'O Messenger of Allaah, what is the most serious thing that I should fear for myself?” So he took a hold of his tongue and said: 'This.’”
Whosoever is granted protection by Allaah from the evil of what is between his jaws and from the evil of what is between his legs,will enter Paradise.
“When the Son of Aadam wakes from his sleep, all of his body parts seek refuge from his tongue, saying: ‘Fear Allaah with regard to us, for indeed we are part of you. So if you are upright,then we will be upright and if you are corrupt, then we shall be corrupt.”
“Every speech of the Son of Aadam is against him not for him, except for commanding good and forbidding evil or the remembrance of Allaah, may He be Exalted.”
Mu’aadh Ibn Jabal (radyAllaahu ‘anhu) reported: “I said: ‘O Messenger of Allaah! Tell me of an act that will take me to Paradise and keep me away from the Hellfire.’ He said: ‘You have asked me about a major matter. But it is easy for he whom Allaah, may He be Exalted, makes it easy for. You must worship Allaah, associating nothing with him. You must perform the prayers and pay the Zakaat. You must fast in Ramadaan and perform the Hajj to the House (Ka’abah).’ Then he (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)said: ‘Shall I not show you the gates of goodness? Fasting is a shield; charity extinguishes sin as water extinguishes fire; and (so does) the praying of a man in the depths of the night.’ Then he (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) recited: ‘(Those)who forsake their beds to cry unto their Lord in fear and hope, and spend of what We have bestowed upon them. No soul knows what is kept hidden for them of joy,as a reward for what they used to do.’ [Surah As-Sajdah: 16] Then he (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: ‘Shall I not tell you of the peak of the matter, its pillar and its uppermost part?’ I said: ‘Yes,O Messenger of Allaah!’ He said: ‘The peak of the matter is Islaam. The pillar is prayer and its uppermost part is Jihaad. Shall I not tell you of what controls all that?’ I said: ‘Yes, O Messenger of Allaah.’ So he took a hold of his tongue and said: ‘Restrain this!’ I said: ‘O Prophet of Allaah, will we be held accountable for what we say?’ He (sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “May your mother be bereaved of you, O Mu’aadh! Is there anything that causes people to be dragged on their faces – or he said –on their noses into Hellfire other than the harvests of their tongues?’”
From the goodness of an individual’s Islaam is that he abandons (talking about) those things which do not concern him.”
If we look at how much emphasis he put on guarding the tongue, we can see how important it is that we put these words in to practice.
If everyone just stays silent when there is nothing good to say then the world would be a much happier place, I'm tellin ya!
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
The protesters were 100 % idiots. When someone glorifies terrorism and calls to it, it must end in prison.
ditto that...
its aweful..its immoral...all these rallies, protests, stand ups...
dnt they realise that they are only giving the press and media what they want...our 'bright' muslims are feeding them the bacon...then compalining about it even more...
sad really...wen will they learn.what thyre doing is getting them nowhere...it sworking against them.
"'Cause I hear the whispered words
In your masterpiece beautiful
You speak the unspeakable through
I love you too"
While that is currently true under the law, I really don't agree with it. I don't believe anybody should be entitled to lie (unless lying would avert physical harm) and I don't believe anybody should be entitled to offend or upset another person, let alone a whole race or religious group.
I don't believe Hitler should have had the legal right to voice his hatred of the Jews. Do you?
How do we get Hitler as an example of free speech?
People should leave things as thoughts
And that’s a nice thought. Thinking of nice thoughts, lets just stop one religion from saying they are right and all others are wrong.
Shall we make that a law? How do we write those laws?
I don't believe anybody should be entitled to lie
Is that going to be a criminal offense?
If I say the Sun will never come up in the West, is that a lie?
and I don't believe anybody should be entitled to offend or upset another person
So no more negative Bush statements, right?
I don't believe Hitler should have had the legal right to voice his hatred of the Jews. Do you?
After he was in power, he made the laws so yes, he had the legal right.
Not all laws created by all groups are good.
I think it isn't nice to be "Not Nice", but whey you want to start making it a law you have a mass of problems and IMHO it would only make things worse.
PS: I noticed no one answered my question.
So which one of those two men violated “Freedom of Speech”?
If I say the Sun will never come up in the West, is that a lie?
To me it is. But it is your belief. So you can say 'I believe that the Sun will never come up in the West.' Just as I can say 'I believe that the Sun will one day rise in the west'
Neither of those statements are lies.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
So no more negative Bush statements, right?
Correct. In fact, I remember once having a big rant about how we should stop making fun of Bush as it is unislamic and how we should instead pray for Allah to guide him and so on. I think that thread has been deleted now.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
After he was in power, he made the laws so yes, he had the legal right.
Yes, I'm aware of that. My question was should he have had the legal right to do so in your opinion?
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Not all laws created by all groups are good.
Sure, I agree with that.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think it isn't nice to be "Not Nice", but whey you want to start making it a law you have a mass of problems and IMHO it would only make things worse.
I might have an idea about what you mean, but can you go into a few of the problems if possible please? Very briefly if you want.
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
PS: I noticed no one answered my question.
Sorry, I thought it was rhetorical. The answer is definitely the cleric.
Regards
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
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Given the amount of inflammatory rhetoric, there have been very few prosecutions
In which case all people with glasses have no social lives.
In fact, I remember once having a big rant about how we should stop making fun of Bush as it is unislamic and how we should instead pray for Allah to guide him and so on. I think that thread has been deleted now.
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