July 19, 2007, 6:25AM Al-Qaida's man in Iraq unveiled as fictional characterU.S. military says an Iraqi actor had portrayed the nonexistent leader
By TINA SUSMANLos Angeles Times
BAGHDAD — In March, he was declared captured. In May, he was declared killed, and his purported corpse was displayed on state-run TV. But Wednesday, Omar al-Baghdadi, the supposed leader of an al-Qaida-affiliated group in Iraq, was declared nonexistent by U.S. military officials, who say he is a fictional character created to give an Iraqi face to a foreign-run terror group.
In reality, an Iraqi actor has been used to read statements attributed to al-Baghdadi, who since October has been identified as the leader of the Islamic State of Iraq, said U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner.
Bergner said the information came from a man whom U.S. forces captured July 4 and who was described as the highest-ranking Iraqi within the Islamic State of Iraq. The detainee, identified as Khaled Abdul-Fattah Dawoud Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, has served as a propaganda chief in the organization, a Sunni insurgent group that claims allegiance to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida.
According to Bergner, Mashadani helped create Islamic State of Iraq as a "virtual organization" that is essentially a pseudonym for al-Qaida in Iraq, another group that claims ties to al-Qaida. The front organization was aimed at making Iraqis believe that al-Qaida in Iraq is a nationalistic group, even though it is led by an Egyptian and has few Iraqis among its leaders, Bergner told a news conference.
"The Islamic State of Iraq is the latest effort by al-Qaida to market itself and its goal of imposing a Taliban-like state on the Iraqi people," he said.
Islamic State of Iraq had been widely described as an umbrella organization made up of several insurgent groups, including al-Qaida in Iraq.
There was no way to confirm the military's claim, which comes at a time of heightened pressure on the White House to justify keeping U.S. troops in Iraq. Critics of the Bush administration say he has been trying to provide that justification by linking the broader-based al-Qaida to the conflict in Iraq, even though Bin Laden's organization had no substantial presence here until after the U.S. invasion of March 2003.
"The same people that attacked us on September the 11th is the crowd that is now bombing people" in Iraq, President Bush said Tuesday.
I'm surprised this article was actually posted, since it affirms the fact that Al-Qaeda has to create a fictional character to put an Iraqi face to their activities.
You know, I really don't understand why the U.S. pretends to be so opposed to so-called "foreign" Muslim groups since it was America who promoted the concept. Seriously, the U.S. sponsored a huge recruitment (propaganda) campaign to encourage Arab youth to care about what happens to their people in foreign lands... like Afghanistan. We circulated brochures with pictures of burned women and children, etc, because we wanted them to fight the Soviet Union... for us!
Excerpt from Lost Letters:
Zarqawi: No, there wasn't any particular personality that touched me before my adherence. And the real reason that made me religious was that I went through a lot of incidents that brought me close to destruction and therefore close to death. So I felt that Allah was warning me. After that I was guided and I adhered to (the teachings of) Islam.
Baghdadi: The transfer from general religiousness to the depths (zarwah) of Islam i.e. Jihad , how did that happen?
Zarqawi: By the grace of Allah, during my stay with the brothers at the Masjid, I regularly performed congregational prayers and the brothers used to discuss the news of Jihad in Afghanistan. We also used to receive tapes of Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, may Allah have mercy on him, who had a very great influence in directing me towards jihad. Similarly we would get magazines on jihad and a few videos that effected me a lot and made me among those who cared enough to travel to the land of jihad in Afghanistan. I decided to migrate leaving my family, as I had only been married a short while, two months or so, and my age then was 23 years.
Baghdadi: The journey to Afghanistan, how did it take place?
Zarqawi: I got the visa from the Jordan embassy because at that time it was simple on the part of these organizations that obey the command of America so it made it easy for youth to travel to Afghanistan in order to destroy the Soviet Union and stop its raid towards the warm waters as is the Russian dream. And you know. the world then was divided into Capitalist and Socialist and both of them were competing on the lands of influence, nevertheless the Middle East . Most of the Arab countries follow American order, so America didn't bat an eyelash in declaring jihad against the Soviet Union and these countries made it easy to reach Afghanistan. I reached Afghanistan in 1989 and came back to Jordan in 1992.
So, let me see if I understand the complaint. We pursuaded Zarqawi to care about what happens to Muslims in foreign lands like Afghanistan, because it was convenient for us (we wanted him to fight the Soviets), but we redicule him for caring about what happens in foreign lands like Iraq, because it was inconvenient for us. We told people to care and get involved, and now we tell them to mind their own business?
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 12-12-2007 at 06:44 PM.
You know, I really don't understand why the U.S. pretends to be so opposed to so-called "foreign" Muslim groups since it was America who promoted the concept. Seriously, the U.S. sponsored a huge recruitment (propaganda) campaign to encourage Arab youth to care about what happens to their people in foreign lands... like Afghanistan. We circulated brochures with pictures of burned women and children, etc, because we wanted them to fight the Soviet Union... for us!
Excerpt from Lost Letters:
So, let me see if I understand the complaint. We pursuaded Zarqawi to care about what happens to Muslims in foreign lands like Afghanistan, because it was convenient for us (we wanted him to fight the Soviets), but we redicule him for caring about what happens in foreign lands like Iraq, because it was inconvenient for us.
Did you even read the article? Baghdadi was a fictional character created by Al-Qaeda. Pasting some imaginary conversation Zarqawi had with a fictional character serves absolutely no purpose.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Did you even read the article? Baghdadi was a fictional character created by Al-Qaeda. Pasting some imaginary conversation Zarqawi had with a fictional character serves absolutely no purpose.
This was not an "imaginary conversation Zarqawi had with a fictional character" and you're missing my point.
The U.S. is accusing AQI of inventing an Iraqi face to hide its "foreign" origin. I find that whole argument of theirs, weird, considering our position in the earlier campaign.
Oh, just so you know, the one who conducted the interview was Abu Yaman al-Baghdadi - not to be confused with Abu Omar al-Baghdadi... the one U.S. military officials are saying doesn't exist. Hmmm. Maybe none of them exist, lol.
Anyway, not getting embroilled over it... but it just struck me as rather two-faced on our part.
The Ninth Scribe
Last edited by Ninth_Scribe; 12-12-2007 at 07:06 PM.
..
So, let me see if I understand the complaint. We pursuaded Zarqawi to care about what happens to Muslims in foreign lands like Afghanistan, because it was convenient for us (we wanted him to fight the Soviets), but we redicule him for caring about what happens in foreign lands like Iraq, because it was inconvenient for us. We told people to care and get involved, and now we tell them to mind their own business?
As Reagan might have said..."Ah, there you go again". Are you a card-carrying member of the "blame America crowd"? Do you really mean to tell the assembled masses that the mujahadeen fighting the Soviets were all duped by the US? That simply defies credulity. What about the relevant passages in the Quran and the Hadith? Did the CIA secretly modify them? Perhaps the Mossad helped as they are better at Arabic?
This is the old "the CIA created OBL" myth rewarmed for Zarqawi. Let's turn a new page in the playbook, shall we?
This was not an "imaginary conversation Zarqawi had with a fictional character" and you're missing my point.
The U.S. is accusing AQI of inventing an Iraqi face to hide its "foreign" origin. I find that whole argument of theirs, weird, considering our position in the earlier campaign.
Oh, just so you know, the one who conducted the interview was Abu Yaman al-Baghdadi - not to be confused with Abu Omar al-Baghdadi... the one U.S. military officials are saying doesn't exist.
Anyway, not getting embroilled over it... but it just struck me as rather two-faced.
The Ninth Scribe
Two faced? The issues you bring up are totally unrelated except for the fact that they are self-proclaimed Muslims. Al-Qaeda fabricated an Iraqi propoganda figure in order to convince Iraqis themselves and the U.S. that there was significant Iraqi support for Al-Qaeda's actions...we now know that there isn't significant support for Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
As Reagan might have said..."Ah, there you go again". Are you a card-carrying member of the "blame America crowd"? Do you really mean to tell the assembled masses that the mujahadeen fighting the Soviets were all duped by the US?
I never said that. I just said it's two-faced to encourage foreign fighters for one purpose and then complain about them for another. And, yes. America has some real problems. Or are you one of those card-carrying "Americans are pure as driven snow" members?
we now know that there isn't significant support for Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
Oh, that's right... you speak for all Iraqis. It never occurs to you that when ANYONE "questions" them, they'll tell you whatever you want to hear... because we all know what can happen to their sons and daughters if they actually speak their minds.
Sorry, didn't get your attitude that I'm supposed to believe whatever the Bush Administration tells me. An admin that has told 27 blatant lies thus far. And yes... they're two-faced.
Oh, that's right... you speak for all Iraqis. It never occurs to you that when ANYONE "questions" them, they'll tell you whatever you want to hear... because we all know what can happen to their sons and daughters if they actually speak their minds.
Sorry, didn't get your attitude that I'm supposed to believe whatever the Bush Administration tells me. An admin that has told 27 blatant lies thus far. And yes... they're two-faced.
But whatever...
why are the excuses always like this one "They will tell you what you want to hear", that is complete bullcrap. The media isnt killing anyones sons or daughters, the US media is about as liberal as it gets, other than Fox news they are pretty consistant about not liking Bush, wanting out of Iraq, etc. Not to mention the number of people who answer on the condition of anonymity, this is probably where you are confused since the majority of the answers are anonymous so the AQI guys dont come kill their families.
Not to mention the facts on the ground are speaking for themselves right now in Iraq, with more people joining the police and military and more tribes and smaller factions joining with US and coalition troops to get these maniacs out of their country.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
Oh, that's right... you speak for all Iraqis. It never occurs to you that when ANYONE "questions" them, they'll tell you whatever you want to hear... because we all know what can happen to their sons and daughters if they actually speak their minds.
Sorry, didn't get your attitude that I'm supposed to believe whatever the Bush Administration tells me. An admin that has told 27 blatant lies thus far. And yes... they're two-faced.
But whatever...
So "you speak for all Iraqis"? How did you get that position?
But who among us are so ignorant that they think Iraqis are of "one mind"?
Oh, just so you know, the one who conducted the interview was Abu Yaman al-Baghdadi - not to be confused with Abu Omar al-Baghdadi... the one U.S. military officials are saying doesn't exist. Hmmm. Maybe none of them exist, lol.
^ Yes, it was by Abu Yaman al-Baghdadi:
The reply came after a period of time that the Sheikh has agreed to this request and the call was given to the reporter of the media section of the Al-Qaeda organization in the land of Rafideen. The “reporter” at that time, Brother Abu Yaman al-Baghdadi (Rahimahullah ) then met with Sheikh Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. The meeting took place in the form of an interview where Brother Abu Yaman entered into a detailed discussion with Abu Musab.
Inshallah we support the 3 Umars:
Abu Umar Baghdadi AlQuraishi (Islamic State of Iraq); Dokku Umarov (Qauqas Emirate) and Mullah Muhammad Umar Mujahid (Afghan Emirate)....
Between american crusaders and muslim believers I believe muslims more..
Nice try by US of Losers...By propaganda and 'Divide and Rule' policy
Inshallah we support the 3 Umars:
Abu Umar Baghdadi AlQuraishi (Islamic State of Iraq); Dokku Umarov (Qauqas Emirate) and Mullah Muhammad Umar Mujahid (Afghan Emirate)....
Between american crusaders and muslim believers I believe muslims more..
Nice try by US of Losers...By propaganda and 'Divide and Rule' policy
Right! The standard "All Muslims are good" and "All non-Muslims are bad".
Now that's original. At least I thought it was for the first few times I heard it.
Inshallah we support the 3 Umars:
Abu Umar Baghdadi AlQuraishi (Islamic State of Iraq); Dokku Umarov (Qauqas Emirate) and Mullah Muhammad Umar Mujahid (Afghan Emirate)....
Between american crusaders and muslim believers I believe muslims more..
Nice try by US of Losers...By propaganda and 'Divide and Rule' policy
Could we move past the childish "Crusader" rhetoric please? How many centuries ago was that? You guys really can carry a grudge.
By the way....when the US is beaming the "divide and rule" mind waves from outer space, just make yourself a beanie out of tinfoil...that will block out about 99%.
i'm still a little bit confused... is this article saying that al qaeda uses an actor as it's front man, or that the whitehouse hired an actor to be the face of what is so far a faceless person?
Could we move past the childish "Crusader" rhetoric please? How many centuries ago was that? You guys really can carry a grudge.
By the way....when the US is beaming the "divide and rule" mind waves from outer space, just make yourself a beanie out of tinfoil...that will block out about 99%.
u wanna t thatell to the bush, the self proclaimed crusader........
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