News 4m Pakistan

format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28

A tough choice perhaps and I don't consider myself worthy of deciding a country's policies. They themselves are the best judge. But at that time, he was more concerned with legitimizing himself in the eyes of the US leadership and that could have been done only, when he would have offered them unflinching loyalty, which he did, but prematurely, without assessing the repercussions and now the result is in front of us.

You have mentioned India as a threat and some others, desiring for dismemberment of Pakistan. Well anything could happen. I agree with you, the worst scenerio for Pakistan could be Indian offensive from the East and the existing Afghan Govt's jugglery along Western front. As they say everything is possible in love and war. But I would like to give you a relevant example of German legend Rommel, who also faced similar scenerio in North Africa, British to the East and Americans on the West, he contained British for a while and knocked hell out of Americans. Similarly Pakistan shouldn't be worried on its West The puppet Afghan Govt can't pose any real threat to Pakistan.

To be fair enough, why should India attack Pakistan at this stage, when things are moving the way, they want and if they are successful in attainment of their aims and objectives, why would they invite international community's criticism?

Its high time for the US to think as to how can they minimize their pressure on Pakistan by not demanding to that extent, which could put Pakistan's survival in jeopardy.

i think you misunderstood me. i don't think india is the biggest threat. though i think pakistan is in danger from inside, outside and all sides.
i think u.s. is the biggest threat at the moment - i think there may be a real danger of u.s. direct intervention if things spin out of control.
i don't pretend to know what is best for pakistan - and as you said, it isn't up to us anyway. but it was obvious that things couldn't continue the way they were with an open jihaad declared against pakistan and soldiers getting killed almost daily.
all we can do is hope for a better future for paksitan and its people.

format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28

Musharraf denies rumours he is under arrest

From Times Online
November 5, 2007


President Pervez Musharraf was today forced to deny rumours that he had been placed under house arrest as protests broke out in every major Pakistani city against his declaration of emergency rule.

As police used batons and tear gas to put down lawyers’ protests in Lahore, Karachi, Rawalpindi, Peshawar and Multan, senior spokesmen issued hasty denials to rumours sweeping the country that General Musharraf had been sidelined by his second in command.

Television news networks remained off air today, except for the state-controlled Pakistan TV.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2809246.ece

???!!!
i imagine, with things happening so fast, there will be a lot of rumours.
from the article:
"In response the beleaguered Government of General Musharraf tonight promised that parliamentary elections will be held on schedule in Pakistan in January despite the imposition of emergency rule"
this is hard to imagine.

re: the internet
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/200...ed-on-the-web/
are our members in pakistan having any trouble accessing the internet?

(Asma Jahangir is a leading Pakistani lawyer, head of the Pakistan Commission for Human Rights, and a special rapporteur of the UN Commission on Human Rights on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions. She was heavily involved in the movement for the restoration of Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry earlier this year. Ms Jahangir sent this message from her home in Lahore.)

Asma Jahangir: Musharraf has lost his marbles and is targeting progressives

The situation in the country is uncertain. There is a strong crackdown on the press and lawyers. A majority of the judges of the Supreme Court and four judges of the High Court have not taken their oaths. The Chief Justice is under house arrest (unofficially). The president of the Supreme Court Bar, Aitzaz Ahsan, and two former presidents, Mr Muneer Malik and Tariq Mahmood have been imprisoned for one month under the preventive detention laws.

The president of the Lahore High Court, Ahsan Bhoon, and former bar leader Ali Ahmed Kurd have also been arrested. The police are looking for six other lawyers, including the president of the Peshawar and Karachi bar. The president of the Lahore bar is also in hiding. Scores of political leaders havebeen arrested.

Yesterday, I was put under house arrest for 90 days and I was given a copy of my detention order.

Ironically the President (who has lost his marbles) said that he had to clamp down on the press and the judiciary to curb terrorism. Those he has arrested are progressive, secular- minded people while the terrorists are offered negotiations and ceasefires.

Lawyers and civil society will challenge the government and the scene is likely to get uglier. We want friends of Pakistan to urge the United States administration to stop all support of the unstable dictator, as his lust for power is bringing the country close to a worse form of civil strife. It is now time for the international community to insist on preventive measures, otherwise cleaning up the mess may take decades.

There are already several hundred internally displaced persons and the space for civil society has hopelessly shrunk.

We believe that Musharraf has to be taken out of the equation and a government of national reconciliation put in place. It must be backed by the military. Short of this there are no realistic solutions – although there are no guarantees that this would work.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/com...cle3129653.ece

Why should it surprise anyone that Mushareff isn't ready to give up power? He didn't exactly take control with a popular mandate.

What concerns the U.S. and many other countries is the nuclear question. If Mushareff loses power due to a coup or popular uprising, who has control of the nuclear triggers and codes? There are several frightening scenarios that could occur, not the least of which being fundamentalists getting their hands on them.

What concerns the U.S. and many other countries is the nuclear question. If Mushareff loses power due to a coup or popular uprising, who has control of the nuclear triggers and codes? There are several frightening scenarios that could occur, not the least of which being fundamentalists getting their hands on them.

I sense that you watch a great deal of movies. No-one will come to power in "Pakistan" with out the backing of the US. Ayways who is this Bhutto women? She turns up and everything and everyone turn barmy. It's a Pantomime.

i don't know if imran khan is to be taken seriously as a politician or not. but today i heard him say something i thought was interesting. right now it is not so much elections that should be the main demand, but the re-instatement of the chief justice and all the other judges he sacked
(= restoration of independent judiciary).
any comments?

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs

i don't know if imran khan is to be taken seriously as a politician or not. but today i heard him say something i thought was interesting. right now it is not so much elections that should be the main demand, but the re-instatement of the chief justice and all the other judges he sacked
(= restoration of independent judiciary).
any comments?

Well, as the founders of the U.S. Constitution knew quite well, an independent judiciary is vital for clear separation of power. That would be the wisest move if Mushareff is serious about allowing the democratic process to continue.

format_quote Originally Posted by Idris

I sense that you watch a great deal of movies. No-one will come to power in "Pakistan" with out the backing of the US. Ayways who is this Bhutto women? She turns up and everything and everyone turn barmy. It's a Pantomime.

No offense, but I "sense" that you read too many conspiracies. The U.S. is hardly in a position to control who comes into power in Pakistan. The U.S. does have leverage with Mushareff due to the balance of power with India, but Mushareff is his own man. It's politics. Mushareff knows quite well that the U.S. will turn on him in a second if a better option were to appear.

All I can say is musharraf is quite clearly a dictator. He got into power via military coup and recently cheated the election - that's why it was sent to the courts for them to decide.

Musharraf new this and thought: ''Oh bugger. I know, let's call a state of emergency (keep my in power for some more months) AND let's fire off the judges and beat up my opposition.'' This is what is currently being done in pakistan right now.

As for Bhutto - she was pakistan's previous president. After stealing large sums of money she ran into exhile.

The reason why alot of pakistanis left and came to the west was because pakistani government kept getting more corrupt each and every day (still is). Prime example: you can pay the cops off.

i think it's pretty unlikely that president musharraf will re-instate the chief justice along with the other judges that he sacked - after all, they were the biggest challenge to his continuiing to rule in uniform. he may even end the "emergency" as soon as his new court gives him the approval.
as for bhutto, i think recycling corrupt leaders is pretty pathetic, but i suspect the deal between her and the general is still on, behind the scenes.
the impression i get is that to the average pakistani, it matters little because his life is unlikely to improve either way.
some 30,000 troops have been withdrawn from the indian border for use....?

in the north it looks like there is serious danger of some areas breaking off - already in several towns the pakistani flag has come down and the talibaan flag (?) has gone up.
here is an editorial on this subject:

Editorial: The challenge of Swat

Warlord Fazlullah has taken another town in Swat, and the local police have surrendered in routine, its personnel promising never to fight against him again. After Matta and Khawazakhela, Madian has fallen, and Fazlullah’s FM radio is blaring news of yet another victory against the state of Pakistan. Fazlullah says all he wants is Shariat, but the real truth is there for everyone to see. He has annexed territory from the state of Pakistan and will set up a government there on the pattern that Baitullah Mehsud has established in South Waziristan.

The composition of the so-called Taliban fighting as Fazlullah’s troops in Swat tells us who is driving the campaign for Shariat. Depressed, and with their morale down, the inhabitants of Swat report that most of the militants speak a dialect different from theirs. Some have identified them as belonging to South Waziristan. Yet there are some among the outsiders who don’t speak at all and keep their faces covered under masks; they are supposed to be the “foreigners” sent in by Baitullah Mehsud as help from Al Qaeda. There is no longer any doubt about whom the warlord of South Waziristan, Baitullah Mehsud, is working for. The presence of foreigners in Swat tells us the story that we are not willing to acknowledge.

If Swat is going to follow the model of South Waziristan, then let us take a look at the kind of government Baitullah has set up there. From a population not used to paying their bills for state utilities, and used to no taxation system, Baitullah has extracted taxes with which he can run his mini-state. What went under the name of smuggling is now legalised because everyone pays his taxes. With tax on trade of all sorts and the vehicle “token system”, the warlord has enough revenue to finance his 30,000 strong army and even send it into all parts of the Tribal Areas to help other Taliban elements. He also has a contingent of suicide-bombers whose outreach now includes the entire length and breadth of Pakistan. Salaries paid to the ranks and officers range from Rs 10,000 to Rs 25,000 per month.

The case of Fazlullah, it is said, was spoiled by the MMA government in the NWFP. Since Swat fell in the provincially administered tribal area, any military action there had to be “requisitioned” by Peshawar, which refrained from doing so. When it called in the paramilitaries it put conditions on their action that reduced the deployment to a show of force rather than an application of force. But when this force was despatched and attacked by suicide-bombers, the jirgas were made to actually demand the ouster of the state troops. It is only after the exit of the MMA government that the nation has found out that the “real” jirga of Swat actually wanted the government to act with vigour and determination. The caretaker government in Peshawar is now taking the right course but the situation in Swat is a much bigger challenge than Islamabad realises.

The war in the Tribal Areas could actually be the battle for Pakistan itself. It could be a battle against the creation of an Al Qaeda state within Pakistan. Having failed to create one in Somalia, Al Qaeda is now seeking to finally possess the territory it has been holding since 2001 when its hordes entered Pakistan to touch base with the warriors it had trained in the camps of Afghanistan. Already, terrorists planning to attack places in Europe are being trained in South Waziristan. The group of youths arrested by Germany recently with plans to attack American troops stationed there have revealed that they had travelled to Pakistan for training. In the case of Somalia, an invasion was staged from Ethiopia to prevent Al Qaeda to set up its base there. Therefore the same kind of situation could be created here if Islamabad does not taker resolute action.

The solution doesn’t lie in imposing an Emergency and taking away people’s rights. In fact the state of Emergency is going to be the biggest hurdle in tackling the Al Qaeda challenge. There is no doubt that this is the job for the Pakistan army, but if the government is faced with near-insurgency in the rest of the country with people ranged behind their political parties to oppose President General Musharraf, the war against Al Qaeda is all but lost. Those who are now ready to come out on the streets to fight for their rights will hardly be in a mood to even allow the idea of war against Al Qaeda to cross their minds. In fact, given the present situation, Al Qaeda is one of the many elements wanting the Musharraf establishment to go. That is why it is high time to announce elections in January 2008 and hand over the government to agreed caretakers who can let the army take the needed action against Al Qaeda.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-11-2007_pg3_1