Can someone please give a link to somewhere, or a quote from a book, khutba or whatever, where the shaykh says that suicide and killing innocent people is not halal because the israelians is against the falastiins.. It is still harâm to commit suicide..
Anyway, can someone plz give me something and on english plz.. I need it kinda fast, cuz I have a discussion with some really stubborn people.. :confused:
Oh and by the way, is the situation between israel and falastiin jihad? cause i've heard that there can only be claimed jihad when there is a khilafah-state..
Aamirsaab, how dop you propose we can avoid being a 'repeat'?
By listening to what the ummah is saying. And acting upon it. But it's all very well and good saying this. we have to do it as soon as possible. Admittedly, it won't solve every problem right away but at least we will have a working system unlike the one we have presently. If you do not hear the cry, how can you help? Personally, I am tired of fighting - muslim or non. So how bout we stop arguing (not saying we are at this particular moment) and start helping each other out more. We are supposed to be muslim brothers and sisters. Let's start acting like them.
Last edited by aamirsaab; 09-29-2005 at 05:10 PM.
Reason: Elaboration of initial point. In simpler terms: I messed up the first time :p
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Please do not speak for the Palestinians and say what they should do or what they should not do.
Also you claim that the Sheiks who support it are from Palestine only?
I know of excellent Sheiks who are from other countries who support these Mujahadeen.
Are you claiming that all these Mujahadeen are going to Hell?
AstaghferAllah.
It is Fard to fight Jihad against the occupiers, in any way possible.
They find the Bombing the best.
Israeli Forces are equipped so strongly that the Palestinians find such bombing the best alternative.
Who are we to start telling the Palestinians what to do and what not to do while we are sitting in the comfort of our homes?
Suicide Bombing is different to Suicide.
Allah bless the Mujahadeen with Al-Firdaus and the greatest of honours on The Day of Judgment!
Jazakallah kheir akhi.. ameen to ure dua...
just want to say that this bombthing is something we cant be sure off but just make dua that they become shaheeds!
May Allah(swt) reward every1 of them with shahadah!! AMeen!
Please do not speak for the Palestinians and say what they should do or what they should not do.
Also you claim that the Sheiks who support it are from Palestine only?
I know of excellent Sheiks who are from other countries who support these Mujahadeen.
Are you claiming that all these Mujahadeen are going to Hell?
AstaghferAllah.
It is Fard to fight Jihad against the occupiers, in any way possible.
They find the Bombing the best.
Israeli Forces are equipped so strongly that the Palestinians find such bombing the best alternative.
Who are we to start telling the Palestinians what to do and what not to do while we are sitting in the comfort of our homes?
Suicide Bombing is different to Suicide.
Wa'alaikuum as-salaam akhee
I did not [claim] that those who deem it as permissible are from Palestine only, rather I said that those who hold the opinion that it is permissible are the Mufti of Palestine, Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi and a few others. Yusuf Qaradawi is not from Palestine.
I am not speaking for anyone, rather, I am only presenting the ruling regarding suicide-bombing. I love my Muslim brethren in Palestine for the sake of Allaah, and there are many Muslims who continue to support and provide means to regenerate their power, however, I will not blindly support the haram means used to exterminate the enemy. The truth is more beloved to me than anything else.
Allaah (Exalted is He) will always provide victory for his servants as long as they are steadfast in the Deen. This has nothing to do with lack of resources (weapons), because the people of Badr were overpowered and were poorly equiped. Similiary regardin' the Muslim forces in the battle between Jalut (Gloiath) and Dawud (David). He (Exalted is He) says:
But those who knew with certainty that they were to meet their Lord, said: "How often a small group overcame a mighty host by Allah's Leave?" And Allah is with As-Sabirin (the patient ones).
And Allah has already made you victorious at Badr, when you were a weak little force. So fear Allah much [abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden and love Allah much, perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained] that you may be grateful.
Like I stated in my previous post, the main reason is retaliation and strong hatred. You see the Zionist Jews kill 100 Muslims, in retalition, Hamas murders 80 Jews and the cycle continues. You see the Muslims in Palestine wavinh the flag of Palestine after they retaliate, making it the cause of Nationalism and honour for the Palestines instead of the cause of Allaah. When the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions faced persecution from the Mushrikeen in Makkah, they did not protest, complain or engage in wild and deperate attacks against the Mushrikeen, nay, they waited patiently and engaged in ibadaah. Can anyone ever claim that the sufferings of the Muslim today is far worse than the oppression that the Prophet and the Sahabas faced? Ofcourse not. See how Allaah (Exalted is He) rewards the patient ones.
No one has answered my question which I outlined in my previous post. The majority of the scholars say that it's only permissible if it brings benefit to the Muslims who are engagin' in Jihaad. For instance, a Mujahideen is commanded by the Khaleefah to go on a suicide-mission; to target 1000 enemy soldiers in order to weaken their army. Now this is strategical advantage and the Khaleefah has assessed the situation well. However, compare that to the current suicide-missions where an individual (who lost his brother/mother or any other kin or friend), acts and decides for himself what to do, is strapped with bombs to revenge his kin or friend and just targets the unbelievers. The terrorists in return target back and kill more Muslims. This brings no benefit but rather weakens the Muslims. The Muslims in Palestine have been fightin' over of a half-century. The first case of suicide-mission was reported in '93, that's 12 years ago and yet their situation is far worse now than it was 12 years ago. This is because the Muslims resorted desperately to extreme haram means in order to defeat the enemy, it doesn't work like that, as explained early.
Also, I do not claim that the Mujahideen are going to Hell, and I never stated that, Allaah knows best. Rather, what I stated is the ruling regardin' these suicide-missions. Condemning to hell is a different issue which is the right of Allaah since we do not know whether they have done it in ignorance or with full knowledge.
When the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his companions faced persecution from the Mushrikeen in Makkah, they did not protest, complain or engage in wild and deperate attacks against the Mushrikeen, nay, they waited patiently and had engaged in worship.
Listen to Imam Anwar al-Awlaki explain the concept of 'Martyrdom operations' in a comparative/historical perspective and its link to a persons Aqeedah (creed) and Wala (allegiance/love) and Bara (disassociation/hate).
For the urdu speakers you can go [link removed] and download Maulana Masood Azhar's Tafseer-ul-Ayat-ul-Jihad.
MODERATOR'S COMMENT: YOU'RE POSTING A LINK TO A WEBSITE THAT IS DECORATED WITH PICTURES OF GRENADES AND SWORDS. THIS KIND OF NONSENSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. FORUM RULES STATE:
20. Posting links that degrade Islam and paint a false picture is prohibited.
Swords were used by the Sahabah (may Allah be pleased with them) and grenades are a modern day weapon used by all armies/fighting forces. The only nonsense which occured was the link being removed.
What are you trying to achieve here brother? every post of yours on this thread has been an argument (or counter-post to brother kadafi's). Please stop being unrealistic and learn to listen.
As a general point, at this time I would strongly advise those who do support these suicide bomb attacks (and related material) that they do not advertise them in public - especially on an islamic forum that is open to ALL EARS.
I am not saying that you are wrong in your opinin or belief, however, for the safety of others, keep these to yourself - advertising this kind of stuff doesn't help the current situation of the ummah.
I have said this before (in a different thread): I am only trying to help get the ummah back on its feet. To do this, I need your cooperation. Jazakallah kheir.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
salam
very well said bro, i noticed that too about the argument, for us to sort out these issues we have to unite first as brothers in islam inshallah
wasalam
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
What are you trying to achieve here brother? every post of yours on this thread has been an argument (or counter-post to brother kadafi's). Please stop being unrealistic and learn to listen.
Trying to achieve the truth insha'Allah. The only people who are being unrealistic are those who try and silence a possible alternative/viewpoint/difference of opinion. So it others who should try and be realistic and learn how to listen.
As a general point, at this time I would strongly advise those who do support these suicide bomb attacks (and related material) that they do not advertise them in public - especially on an islamic forum that is open to ALL EARS
Dear Brother of Islam. I understand your point and you are correct what you say, but one thing we have to realise is not feel ashamed to speak Al-Haqq, the truth. We are only speaking against those who fight us.
Does Mankind expect us to sit down and expect us to be killed in the hundreds or thousands and then not retaliate against those who are trying to kill us? AstaghferAllah.
Here are some words of wisdom:
Whosoever conceals the truth, Allah will conceal their victory.
I understand what your point is. However, the time that we live in is now - our actions now will have consequences for the future. Of course the world isnt perfect - I am fully aware of it. I agree that we should speak out however, at times like this, when islam is pretty much the centre of attention, we shouldn't be giving the wrong impression - especially to those that we live amongst. We have to be very careful what we say - it is so easy to misinterpret a conversation and for that person (who started the convo) to be arrested the next morning on suspicion of what-not. We all know it, so don't put yourself in that position.
It is fine to speak the truth - but there is an audience that doesn't wish to hear it for the same reasons we wish to speak it. Know what I mean bro?
Look, I don't want to get into a fight over this, I'm just saying it for your benefit and others around you - please do not advertise that you support suicide bombings and similar stuff in public - the people that hear it can misinterpret it and suddenly another muslim gets killed for being a 'terrorist'.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
Please refrain from using this degrading term coined by the jews to insult the mujahideen, 'suicide bombing' is a flawed statement as the mujaahid is commiting sacrifice for the cause of Allaah all exalted not suicide.
If you deny that they are committing suicide, you are surely deluding yourself. If a suicide bomber does not kill himself, then who does?
If you deny that they are committing suicide, you are surely deluding yourself. If a suicide bomber does not kill himself, then who does?
If one is fed up with life and does not want to live any more, hence takes a form of action to kill him/herself, then this is suicide and the person will be in Hell forever.
If someone is fighting the enemy, and therefore finds the best alternative to carry out such action, then this is not suicide, rather it is a strategy of attack.
Excellent points by brother sonofadam, beautiful post by Mu'maneen and may Allaah azzawajjal reward these two, and shower his blessings upon our kind-hearted brother aamirsaab for his concrn for his fellow brethen. Aamirsaab, i am well impressed with your concern and love (for the sake of Allaah) for your fellow brothers, and you make a valid point, however remember 3 things:
1) Fear Allaah subhaanahu'wa'ta'Allaah, alone.
2) The enemies of islaam cannat harm you, what can they do? They will arrest you if they want to under some bogus law wether you are talking about martydom operations and jihaad or picking flowers in the park, if you are a muslim you are a target.
3) Please refrain from using this degrading term coined by the jews to insult the mujahideen, 'suicide bombing' is a flawed statement as the mujaahid is commiting sacrifice for the cause of Allaah all exalted not suicide.
Dont get me wrong ya akhee, i am agreeing with you 100%, and i too join in your call for unity.
If someone is fighting the enemy, and therefore finds the best alternative to carry out such action, then this is not suicide, rather it is a strategy of attack.
A strategy which involves the mujahid killing himself, which is suicide by definition, no?
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أم ذي عينين كبيرين 
صفية و عمر 
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